"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Protege]

But this anyway means nothing as Magetta was applying a resisting force.

How do you exactly apply a resistance force when your already on the ground?

Perhaps a force diagram would help explaining what is going on better but to put it simply you need to consider the distribution of forces when the object (in this case magetta's leg) is about to be lifted. Then essentially it becomes a situation where you have Vegeta's arm's muscle strength pushing upwards versus Mageta's leg muscle strength pushing downwards. Vegeta was trying to lift one leg by the way. Ah and we don't even know whether Magetta was pushing down even more by using Ki. Besides it is Dragonball physics we are talking about anyway. Real physics goes out of the window regarding energy production. And don't tell me that Goku can destroy a planet from the calories he receives from food!

Thats not what happened! In the manga it looks like that Megetta 1000 ton hand dropped on vegeta and he simply was startled over it. I mean you cant even consider that a punch lol. The manga was simply just inconsistent, what more is there to argue. And the moment universe 6 fighters appeared, you already knew that Goku and Vegeta would have had to been nerfed in order for those fodders to give them a real challenge. If this was actually realistic, vegeta with one finger in his ssj form would have poked Magetta and it would have been the end of the fight with Magetta flying out the orbit.

[Protege]

No Vegeta wasn't actually able to lift Magetta's leg off the ground. Just Vegeta crushed the ground underneath himself while trying to lift him. But this anyway means nothing as Magetta was applying a resisting force.

How do you exactly apply a resistance force when your already on the ground, even so 1000 tons shouldnt been that much for ssj vegeta considering that base Goku during buu saga was struggling with like 40 tons and how strong would vegeta had to been to struggle with 1000 tons? 25 times stronger than base Goku? Once again Toriyama/Toyotaro must have screwed up their math somehow or didnt take in an account how weak 1000 tons should have been for Vegeta in that state.

Base Goku couldn't move at all with 40 tons back in the Buu Saga. He wasn't "struggling". Also, like I mentioned before, the manga hasn't established at all that SSJ Goku and Vegeta are as strong as SSJ Gods now, and the only comment about SSJ Blue's power was that it was "approaching the power of Gods". So, unlike the tv show, everything is much more vague power-wise.

He was struggling in a sense that he wasent able to keep a float with them, if 40 tons were really too much for his body then his limbs probably would have been torn off from his body due to the force, but it wasent really the case, they were just really heavy for him especially while levitating.

[Sora Saiyan]

Base Goku couldn't move at all with 40 tons back in the Buu Saga. He wasn't "struggling". Also, like I mentioned before, the manga hasn't established at all that SSJ Goku and Vegeta are as strong as SSJ Gods now, and the only comment about SSJ Blue's power was that it was "approaching the power of Gods". So, unlike the tv show, everything is much more vague power-wise.

He was struggling in a sense that he wasent able to keep a float with them, if 40 tons were really too much for his body then his limbs probably would have been torn off from his body due to the force, but it wasent really the case, they were just really heavy for him especially while levitating.

The Super Exciting Guide does state that Goku's weight training in heaven was more effective, and much harder because he was using Bukujutsu

[Speedster]

Thats not what happened! In the manga it looks like that Megetta 1000 ton hand dropped on vegeta and he simply was startled over it. I mean you cant even consider that a punch lol.

Pretty sure that this is a punch...

Spoiler:

Yeah, it's not like Vegeta cut Guildo's head off with a sneak attack to win.

Guildo was not Vegeta's own fight now, was it? And Vegeta could beat him anyway in strength and speed. Besides Vegeta had some character development from the early Freeza arc. He went from wanting to get stronger by becoming immortal to never considering it ever since, from double crossing Goku to fight Ginyu and get rid of him underhandedly to being obsessed of surpassing him and defeating him in a one 2 one battle. From avoiding Freeza to challenging him to transform. As he also challenged Semi Perfect Cell to become perfect.

Besides a cheap shot is still something he can do to get the victory in a real battle. Also a ringout by throwing out your opponent means that you can overpower them in brute strength. But destroying the floor so your opponent has no proper floor to stand means what? That you can fly and they can't because they weigh over 1000 tonnes? Booooo. (Vegeta by the way would probably not be able to do 20,000x gravity training and fly anyway). Not to mention that this whole concept goes against the 23rd TB where the arena area was still counting even without the floor.

[batistabus]

I guess I'm not totally happy with either fight, but overall, I really did not like the anime fight at all. It was ridiculous (Magetta shooting infinite lava), had poor delivery of fan service (two of Vegetas signature moves that amounted to nothing and had no buildup), and downplayed the "metalmen are sensitive" gag completely. In the anime, you find out after the fight that Vegeta insulting Magetta probably contributed to his victory, but the moment where he punches him is played up so intensely. The ground breaks and Vegeta pushes through, so even if Magetta hadn't felt insulted, the ground still broke and he still would've fallen...

As for the manga, the gags are played heavily, but I think you guys are overstating how problematic they might be. Magetta is quite heavy - much heavier than Vegeta expects him to be - so he goes Super Saiyan, and his punched in the head before he is able to lift him. People are complaining about Vegeta winning with strategy instead of brute strength...why? He still wants to win the tournament, and at the very least, get a shot at a stronger opponent.

My biggest problem with Magetta, which is a problem in both the anime and manga, is that he seems to be immune to punches. That's fine and all, but we literally just did that with Botamo. The novelty from that trait is gone, and it just makes Botamo a completely useless fighter. I think both the anime and manga fail to properly communicate how strong Magetta might actually be. Yes, Vegeta only goes regular Super Saiyan against him, but he was not really being affected by any of Vegeta's attacks, especially in the manga. Had Vegeta not insulted him, it's possible he could've contended with Super Saiyan Blue. When Vegeta angrily fires a ki blast at Magetta, he seems to be putting a bit of effort into it, but it just barely knocks a defenseless Magetta over. In the manga it is clear from the presentation and the crowd reactions that Magetta losing to that attack seemed odd. If you look at it as Magetta being very durable/strong rather than having an invulnerability trait like Botamo, I guess that might help ease that disappointment. For example, while Magetta might be able to do more damage to Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, he would get destroyed by Beerus. However, while Botamo would not be able to touch Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, he might still be able to absorb an attack from Beerus.

[Saiga]

Question...

... why is Vegeta having trouble lifting 1k tons?

Well, base Goku couldn't lift 40 tonnes in the Boo arc. He could lift 10, though.

Since Goku and Vegeta weren't mentioned to have absorbed the SSG power in the manga, their strength without Blue might still be comparable to their Boo arc selves. In which case Super Saiyan Vegeta's weight lifting limit would be between 500 and 2,000 tonnes - 1,000 being too much for him isn't unreasonable.

[HeroR]

I also think anime has surpassed manga especially with the fight between piccolo and frost. Then Vegeta vs mageta and cabba weren't bad either. Hit vs Vegeta and hit vs goku were classics

So far, my toughts:

Manga did way better Goku vs Botamo, Goku vs Frost and Vegeta vs Frost.
Anime did better Piccolo vs Frost and Magetta vs Vegeta.

There was not fight between Vegeta and Frost. Vegeta one-shotted him and that was the end of it, as it should be. That Frost fight had no business being so long. Goku vs. Frost fight had the edge, but it dragged too long, which took away from Piccolo and Frost's fight. Goku vs Botamo is better, but both are meh.

[mawilex]

I don't know if someone already pointed this out before, but I just noticed that in the Chapter 07 of the manga there is a small panel where we can see Mr. Popo and Dende having their friendly tennis match, like we saw back in episode 32 of the TV series.

Spoiler:

Not that big of a deal, but still a fun little thing to know... I guess. Maybe this means that it's something present in Toriyama's original script of Super? x')

[eledoremassis02]

I was just thinking with this new digest edition coming out. Do you with some chapters in Super were in color? It doesnt bother me but I think that would have been pretty cool!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Nah. Doing color pages takes time. So if Toyotaro has theoretical free time for the sake of the example, I'd rather have it spent on getting longer chapters than color added to what we already have.

[TekTheNinja]

I don't know if someone already pointed this out before, but I just noticed that in the Chapter 07 of the manga there is a small panel where we can see Mr. Popo and Dende having their friendly tennis match, like we saw back in episode 32 of the TV series.

Spoiler:

Not that big of a deal, but still a fun little thing to know... I guess. Maybe this means that it's something present in Toriyama's original script of Super? x')

I just realized that it would really suck if the ball fell off the lookout.

[Kuririn Fan]

I don't know if someone already pointed this out before, but I just noticed that in the Chapter 07 of the manga there is a small panel where we can see Mr. Popo and Dende having their friendly tennis match, like we saw back in episode 32 of the TV series.

Spoiler:

Not that big of a deal, but still a fun little thing to know... I guess. Maybe this means that it's something present in Toriyama's original script of Super? x')

I just realized that it would really suck if the ball fell off the lookout.

I mean, they can fly and probably catch it.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Materializations is a skill of Dragon Clan Namekians and gods. Just let the ball fall and make a new one.

[Kuririn Fan]

Materializations is a skill of Dragon Clan Namekians and gods. Just let the ball fall and make a new one.

Yeah, but Popo is too awesome, he would catch it just to show off his lit skills...

[mawilex]

I don't know if someone already pointed this out before, but I just noticed that in the Chapter 07 of the manga there is a small panel where we can see Mr. Popo and Dende having their friendly tennis match, like we saw back in episode 32 of the TV series.

Spoiler:

Not that big of a deal, but still a fun little thing to know... I guess. Maybe this means that it's something present in Toriyama's original script of Super? x')

I just realized that it would really suck if the ball fell off the lookout.

Pretty sure Yajirobe and Karin have got it covered down at Karin Tower in situations like that.

Worst case scenario, the ball falls in Upa's village, then Bora throws it back up to Karin Tower / the Lookout, like he did with Yajrobe and Goku back in the King Piccolo Saga.

In a way, Karin, Yajirobe and Bora can be considered as the ball boys of the match.

(Are we really discussing this? lol)

[Lord Frieza]

Materializations is a skill of Dragon Clan Namekians and gods. Just let the ball fall and make a new one.

Poor Bora and Upa, coming home to find a huge pile of tense balls covering their home. Hell poor anyone walking nearby, the lookouts so high those balls could reach terminal velocity and kill someone!

[MrBlackFox]

Man, that manga stle is awesome imho, I hope they'll release it as soon as possible in other countries, out of Japan, including mine ( Italy )

I want that manga badly, dammit
Same for the anime, though I think we'll need to wait a little longer, 2017

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Poor Bora and Upa, coming home to find a huge pile of tense balls covering their home. Hell poor anyone walking nearby, the lookouts so high those balls could reach terminal velocity and kill someone!

No matter how far we've departed from it being the main focus, the Dragon Ball universe's foundation is fundamentally gag based. Assuming the ball beat the odds and actually managed to hit someone, most likely the worst that would happen is they get knocked out and start swearing when they wake up.

[TekTheNinja]

You guys notice how Frost doesn't seem evil in the manga version?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He's clearly evil. He just doesn't have the whole war-mongering-real-estate-thing going on, and Piccolo wonders if his experience at the tournament will set him on that (Freeza's) path.

Similar type of thing can potentially be said for Cabba here. The manga lacks all the hints that he doesn't know how to transform into a Super Saiyan. It's possible that, unlike the anime, Cabba (and other U6 Saiyans) may already have the form instead of needing Vegeta's assistance.

Just depends on how medium interpreted and expanded upon Toriyama's notes, I suppose.