Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Mister_Popo]

What the trailer did show, i think, is Blue alone isn't enough against Broly

What makes you say that? The fact that we clearly see Broly in his black-haired, golden eye form (which, judging by the showcasing from SDCC, is two forms before his final one) clashing with an already battle damaged SSB Goku, or Goku in his Blue form trembling from the seemingly never ending power increase from an emerging LSS Broly?

What you are suggesting ... that final shot of Blue Goku, the hopeless lonely warrior (no Vegeta noticable) against a storm of energy he can"t handle (something epic has to happen to change the situation) and the latest 'spoilers' indicating Broly will be stronger than a God of Destruction.

[kudo6000]

What you are suggesting ... that final shot of Blue Goku, the hopeless lonely warrior (no Vegeta noticable) against a storm of energy he can"t handle (something epic has to happen to change the situation) and the latest 'spoilers' Broly will be stronger than Jiren.

Dragon Ball has always followed the trope of the next antagonist being stronger than the last (for the exception of Beerus and Champa(?), maybe?)

I don't see why that should stop now.

[Mister_Popo]

What the trailer did show, i think, is Blue alone isn't enough against Broly, something far stronger will be needed. Vegeta could still be hanging on somewhere, by the looks of the trailer he wasn't somewhere near.

If Goku isn't going to use UI (very likely as the new scan hints at him losing) then the only outcome I can see other than Broly self destructing is him and Vegeta fusing into Gogeta.

The trailer opens with Whis saying 'Goku, don't you have enough power after TOP?' and thereafter Goku states 'i'm fired up, there is no way i can stay at this level, TOP opened my eyes, which indicates there are fighters beyond what i have believed'.
At the end we see Goku really struggling in Blue against Broly.
This could insinuate Goku is somehow going to break his limits.

I can't say surely we are not going to see Gogeta, but if we see him it's probably going to happen before Goku is struggling in that last trailershot, otherwise that scene wouldn't make much sense and loose it's epicness (Goku alone has to handle the power).
The emphazis of the empowermoment however doesn't lay on Vegeta, nor in the beginning, nor in the end, based on what we've seen now.
In a movie in which Gogeta would be conclusive i rather would have expected another trailer beginning and end.

[sintzu]

What you are suggesting ... that final shot of Blue Goku, the hopeless lonely warrior (no Vegeta noticable) against a storm of energy he can"t handle (something epic has to happen to change the situation) and the latest 'spoilers' Broly will be stronger than Jiren.

Dragon Ball has always followed the trope of the next antagonist being stronger than the last (for the exception of Beerus and Champa(?), maybe?)

I don't see why that should stop now.

If UI isn't going to be in this movie (so far things are pointing towards that) then he won't be stronger than Jiren nor should he as Jiren shouldn't be surpassed this early.

The trailer opens with Whis saying 'Goku, don't you have enough power after TOP?' and thereafter Goku states 'i'm fired up, there is no way i can stay at this level, TOP opened my eyes, which indicates there are fighters beyond what i have believed'.

Before the tournament of power Gohan said he wanted to reach a level no one else had but it didn't happen during the tournament so although Goku says he wants something better, it doesn't mean he'll get it this early.

[kudo6000]

What suggests that Ultra Instinct won't be appear in this movie, exactly? Based on what we know/are learning, it looks to be the opposite.

[TheOne]

I’d prefer that they keep UI exclusive to Goku.

I think if that was the plan we wouldn't have seen Whis talk about him trying to get it or Vegeta himself try a few times during the TOP. The only way I'd see hin not getting it is if modern DB was nearing its end which it isn't so if they're going to keep Vegeta around as the 2nd main character and Goku's "equal" then he'll need UI to keep up with him and future villains.

I don't know. I had predicted before that Goku would combine Ultra Instinct with his God powers to ascend even further, but Ultra Instinct is unique as far as transformations go. When Goku uses Ultra Instinct, he stops being himself. He loses his personality and becomes a mindless fighting machine. I don't know if either Toriyama or Toei would want Goku doing that on a constant basis. So maybe Ultra Instinct will remain a last resort used on rare occasions.

How is Goku a mindless fighting machine when we saw him flip out when Jiren attacked his friends In the stands? We hadn’t seen him that pissed off since hearing about chi chi and Goten.

[sintzu]

What suggests that Ultra Instinct won't be appear in this movie, exactly? Based on what we know/are learning, it looks to be the opposite.

A new scan hints at Goku not winning and the main movie merchandise haven't shown anything regarding UI Goku.

[Mister_Popo]

What you are suggesting ... that final shot of Blue Goku, the hopeless lonely warrior (no Vegeta noticable) against a storm of energy he can"t handle (something epic has to happen to change the situation) and the latest 'spoilers' Broly will be stronger than Jiren.

Dragon Ball has always followed the trope of the next antagonist being stronger than the last (for the exception of Beerus and Champa(?), maybe?)

I don't see why that should stop now.

If UI isn't going to be in this movie (so far things are pointing towards that) then he won't be stronger than Jiren nor should he as Jiren shouldn't be surpassed this early.

The trailer opens with Whis saying 'Goku, don't you have enough power after TOP?' and thereafter Goku states 'i'm fired up, there is no way i can stay at this level, TOP opened my eyes, which indicates there are fighters beyond what i have believed'.

Before the tournament of power Gohan said he wanted to reach a level no one else had but it didn't happen during the tournament so although Goku says he wants something better, it doesn't mean he'll get it this early.

Yeah but this is not an avarage anime episode ..., this is the trailer of what should become the best seller in DB movie history, at least.
I don't put any definitive conclusion on this, i only think the parameters we've seen indicate less on Gogeta as decider but more on 'limit-breaker Goku' (whatever that should mean at the end).

If we get Gogeta: when we are going to get it, before that energy storm? It's rather indicating we are going to see him before that scene. And what is there beyond Gogeta ...
There is only Goku breaking his limits massively or a deux ex machina showing up.

[kudo6000]

What suggests that Ultra Instinct won't be appear in this movie, exactly? Based on what we know/are learning, it looks to be the opposite.

A new scan hints at Goku not winning and the main movie merchandise haven't shown anything regarding UI Goku.

It's an implication that Goku will have a difficult time against Broly, which comes as no surprise based on what we saw in the trailer. If nothing else, the scan gives out more of a reason for Ultra Instinct to return. It also comes down to a logical and perhaps marketing(?) standpoint; why wouldn't Goku enter his most powerful transformation that he attained during the ToP in hopes of even standing more of a chance against this overwhelmingly unbeatable big bad?

I fail to see what merchandising has to do with this. We're still far off from December, which is the month this film's debut falls on. Why would they spoil the reveal now of all times when they still have months to dish out more material?

[sintzu]

Why wouldn't Goku enter his most powerful transformation that he attained during the ToP ?

Because he didn't attain it, he said himself he couldn't use it whenever he wanted so this would be a great way to show how unpredictable it is. If he can use it whenever he's in danger then what will be the point of him not being able to use it at will ?

I fail to see what merchandising has to do with this. Why would they spoil the reveal now of all times when they still have months to dish out more material?

I'll let Baggie explain it as he (or she) knows more about it then I ever will. Long story short, Goku's main figure has been shown to be Blue and if UI was in and they wanted to keep it a secret they would've had it under something like "secret" Goku.

[kudo6000]

He did attain it. I believe the more appropriate term you're looking for is 'mastered.'

That was the gimmick of Ultra Instinct during the ToP; just as when everybody including Goku himself believed he couldn't tap into it anymore after that one, thought-to-be rare occasion against Jiren, the transformation would trigger whenever Goku happened to be at the brink of losing. What's to stop that from happening again? Especially when we take into consideration who Goku's opponent is here.

Ultra Instinct, particularly its silver-haired variant, is apparently popular in both Japan and the west. It'd be weird for them to exclude it from a film that Toriyama admits to having elements of fan service.

[Pannaliciour]

What suggests that Ultra Instinct won't be appear in this movie, exactly? Based on what we know/are learning, it looks to be the opposite.

A new scan hints at Goku not winning and the main movie merchandise haven't shown anything regarding UI Goku.

But the gogeta mechandise didnt shown up either yet nobody can shut up about it.

[ZeroNeonix]

How is Goku a mindless fighting machine when we saw him flip out when Jiren attacked his friends In the stands? We hadn’t seen him that pissed off since hearing about chi chi and Goten.

The way Whis explains Ultra Instinct is that a person moves before thinking. Goku didn't master the form until he lost all sense of himself, in a perfect zen state. In the mastered form, not only does he move before thinking, he doesn't think at all. He protected his friends out of...well instinct, but he is otherwise stoic. He doesn't talk, he doesn't enjoy the challenge, he just fights. I imagine Goku probably doesn't enjoy using the form either, given that it takes all the fun out of fighting.

[Simere]

Pretty crazy to think that magazine is saying Goku won't win. Questioning whether the hero can beat the new enemy is standard hype.

[BlueBasilisk]

Pretty crazy to think that magazine is saying Goku won't win. Questioning whether the hero can beat the new enemy is standard hype.

Wouldn't it be more surprising if he did?

[MoscoSama]

Goku hasn't been able to finish a main villain on his own in a long long time.

In the past 2 movies, he lost to beerus and then lost to a ray gun and needed whis to rewind time so he could kill a wounded freeza.
Thats not counting the lack of wins against MAIN antagonists he had in super (no Kefla is NOT a main antagonist)


I'd be shocked if UI goku beat broly

[Dbzk1999]

What suggests that Ultra Instinct won't be appear in this movie, exactly? Based on what we know/are learning, it looks to be the opposite.

A new scan hints at Goku not winning and the main movie merchandise haven't shown anything regarding UI Goku.

But the gogeta mechandise didnt shown up either yet nobody can shut up about it.

Pretty sure gogeta gets mentioned because of the fact that fusion reborn is being rescreenes along with the first broly movie and Bardock special

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Why wouldn't Goku enter his most powerful transformation that he attained during the ToP ?

Because he didn't attain it, he said himself he couldn't use it whenever he wanted so this would be a great way to show how unpredictable it is. If he can use it whenever he's in danger then what will be the point of him not being able to use it at will ?

I fail to see what merchandising has to do with this. Why would they spoil the reveal now of all times when they still have months to dish out more material?

I'll let Baggie explain it as he (or she) knows more about it then I ever will. Long story short, Goku's main figure has been shown to be Blue and if UI was in and they wanted to keep it a secret they would've had it under something like "secret" Goku.

Pretty much, Goku will either have placeholder figures, silhouette or blanked but will ALWAYS be labelled as "Son Goku", here are three examples (ResF, and this years UI):

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

For the UI one's this year you can see it has big letters "孫 悟空" Son Goku. They also flat out say "new form".

Now this December Banpresto's Ultimate Soldiers line has SSGSS Goku, Vegeta & Anger Broly. So one would think oh they'll probably save UI in January with Full Power Broly. But then the Ichiban Kuji got revealed... And it contained Full Power Broly and also listed SSGSS & SS Goku (SS will likely be a re colour of SSGSS mould hence why that's there) and two "new characters" simply named A & B. Ichiban Kuji is the highest tier of prize figures in Japan, the Full Power Broly is a massive ~ 35cm tall toasts to that.

Now all left for December is the WCF to be revealed and we'll get catalogues scans this month (hopefully I can get them this weekend) so we can look at labellings on there and see if anything is suspicious.

It could also be that they are saving UI merch for January and so in that case we'll get scans in September and so on and so fourth and before the film is out in December we'll have scans for figures up too April 2019! So we'll definitely have a good idea by then if not even draw a definitive conclusion like I made about UI being silver earlier in the year.

Right now it's looking unlikely UI is gonna appear.

Now what's even more interesting is UI isn't a new form, and with the Golden Freeza WCF for the ToP it was blanked but they still labelled it as "ゴールデンフリーザ" Golden Freeza:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

So to conclude, merchandise through being secretive inadvertently and ironically end up actually spoiling more! Goku is the life blood of DB merchandise so if something spoiler-y about the figure has to be hidden Banpresto etc still have to tells stores/game stations "THIS FIGURE IS SON GOKU PLZ ORDER".

[GodVegetto91]

They’re planning to surprise us with UI. That’s all. Can’t anyone see this???! The reason why they took that power away from Goku (yes he never had it to begin with, i know) but you get my freaking point, is because they want to give Broly a chance to shine and cause despair among the main cast. If Goku had Ultra Instinct from the start of this movie completely mastered, there would hardly be any tension at all and Broly would be a total joke and his character would be ruined forever as a result. If Goku activates UI right now in a desperate battle, the emotional reactions of fans would be way higher than if Goku already had the form from the start.. Remember how everyone got all hyped every time Goku transcended into UI??! Jep that’s right! Fans are going crazy! And now they want to recreate the exact same thing again!

[AnimeNation101]

They’re planning to surprise us with UI. That’s all. Can’t anyone see this???! The reason why they took that power away from Goku (yes he never had it to begin with, i know) but you get my freaking point, is because they want to give Broly a chance to shine and cause despair among the main cast. If Goku had Ultra Instinct from the start of this movie completely mastered, there would hardly be any tension at all and Broly would be a total joke and his character would be ruined forever as a result. If Goku activates UI right now in a desperate battle, the emotional reactions of fans would be way higher than if Goku already had the form from the start.. Remember how everyone got all hyped every time Goku transcended into UI??! Jep that’s right! Fans are going crazy! And now they want to recreate the exact same thing again!

Or he’s not in the movie at all as the merch is hinting and Broly will be defeated by Gogeta, self destruction, etc. And now the chance of Beerus vs Broly has been put on the table.