What phrases/opinions/things bring out your irate fanboy?

[dbgtFO]

But I think it's as clear as far back as the Bouken Special that Toriyama just didn't give a rat's ass about developing him or having fun with him.

Bouken Special? I'm not too well versed in Japanese terms. What are you referring to?

It was a special issue in weekly jump back in 1988 or thereabouts. Regarded as the first Dragon Ball guidebook, it contained loads of information about all the characters up till then and also had gags and games and the like.
You should be able to find it on this site under the databook guide.

[nickzambuto]

But I think it's as clear as far back as the Bouken Special that Toriyama just didn't give a rat's ass about developing him or having fun with him.

Bouken Special? I'm not too well versed in Japanese terms. What are you referring to?

It was a special issue in weekly jump back in 1988 or thereabouts. Regarded as the first Dragon Ball guidebook, it contained loads of information about all the characters up till then and also had gags and games and the like.
You should be able to find it on this site under the databook guide.

Ah I see. Thank you. Was it written by Toriyama?

[dbgtFO]

I don't know, if Toriyama gets a writing credit, but he does contribute an interview and all the character bios are filled with comments from IIRC and really I wouldn't expect random people to write about his characters at that point.
It seems like Toriyama provided the info and then the guys at Shueisha handled the layouts and such.

[ABED]

What I said is that there's a difference between saying that the manga is canon, and saying that you are sure that the manga is considered canon in a hypothetical official canon that hasn't been established so far.

I'm sure the manga is considered canon. You still have yet to answer the question - what would it mean for a story to not be canon to itself? The manga is canon automatically, I don't know how this is up for debate. I know Mike likes to point to the different endings, but that alone doesn't disqualify the rest of the story.

It's a matter of accuracy. It's pointless to talk about canon like it exists, like it has been established. It hasn't. At most we have our opinions regarding what should be canon, but the fact that we agree that the manga would surely be considered canon, it doesn't make true that the canon exists, that it was established. It wasn't.

What does this even mean? Of course the manga is canon. It's the source of everything else, including video games, fan fiction, etc. It is the story, ergo, it's canon.

Once again, no one said that the manga wouldn't be canon.

You are confusing. If there is no canon, then your posts have been pointless. The manga is implicitly canon, everything else is up in the air.

You talked about canon like it exists, like it has been established. I explained the difference.

It does exist and you aren't nearly as clear as you think.

Just answer the question, how can the DB manga not be canon to itself?

[Ree]

"Your favorite cahracter is overrated" Yeah ok. Are you gonna explain why he 'sucks' or just spit out irrelevant ********?

[ABED]

Overrated isn't the same thing as saying it's bad, just as saying something is underrated isn't the same thing as saying something is good. For instance, I think the driving episode is overrated. It's not a bad episode but I don't think it's nearly as funny as so many fans claim it is. It's worth a chuckle, but I never thought it was that funny.

[Ree]

these people I'm talking about use overrated as an offense for you liking a character and dont usually come up with other reasons.

[nickzambuto]

Overrated isn't the same thing as saying it's bad, just as saying something is underrated isn't the same thing as saying something is good. For instance, I think the driving episode is overrated. It's not a bad episode but I don't think it's nearly as funny as so many fans claim it is. It's worth a chuckle, but I never thought it was that funny.

This brings out my irate fanboy.

[Ree]

The term Brolytard
whoever came up with it needs a good slap in the face! it's not even funny or clever, it's stupid!

[Dbzfan94]

The term Brolytard
whoever came up with it needs a good slap in the face! it's not even funny or clever, it's stupid!

While it is a very derogatory term, Broly fanboys are some of the most hated of the DB fandom and don't help their cause for people to stop using the term either.

[rereboy]

Just answer the question, how can the DB manga not be canon to itself?

Easily. For example, if Toriyama did a retcon regarding the last chapters of the manga, due to all that happened in BOG, ROF and Super, and specifically stated that the changes were canon and the original chapters were not, you would have a portion of the manga that is not canon, while the rest of it is. This is so because canon is whatever is defined officially to be canon. Even the original work can be changed and be considered, at least partially, non-canon.

But I fail to see why you insist on pressing that issue when nobody said that the manga wouldn't be considered canon. It seems to me that you are still simply not understanding that canon is what is officially deemed to be canon, and that, since there's no official word on it, there's simply no established canon.

[ABED]

Just answer the question, how can the DB manga not be canon to itself?

Easily. For example, if Toriyama did a retcon regarding the last chapters of the manga, due to all that happened in BOG, ROF and Super, and specifically stated that the changes were canon and the original chapters were not, you would have a portion of the manga that is not canon, while the rest of it is. This is so because canon is whatever is defined officially to be canon. Even the original work can be changed and be considered, at least partially, non-canon.

But I fail to see why you insist on pressing that issue when nobody said that the manga wouldn't be considered canon. It seems to me that you are still simply not understanding that canon is what is officially deemed to be canon, and that, since there's no official word on it, there's simply no established canon.

But that doesn't mean there is no canon. It just means a redefinition. I never claimed it couldn't be changed, but that the original work is automatically canon until stated otherwise.

You are the one pressing the issue saying there is no canon. And it's untrue that no one said the manga wouldn't be considered canon. Plenty of people say "there is no canon". What you seem unable to understand is that canon/continuity doesn't need to be stated outright if it's the original source. If later on, the author changes something, then it needs to be redefined, but you don't need someone to state outright that "this event happens in the story" because it's rightly assumed to be the case.

[nickzambuto]

Alright, I figured out what brings out my irate fanboy.

It's when people on Kanzenshuu so callously dismiss certain dub actors that I think are really good. I know you guys hate the term weaboo, but if you're incapable of liking something that ISN'T Japanese, than you're a weaboo.

[ABED]

Alright, I figured out what brings out my irate fanboy.

It's when people on Kanzenshuu so callously dismiss certain dub actors that I think are really good. I know you guys hate the term weaboo, but if you're incapable of liking something that ISN'T Japanese, than you're a weaboo.

That's a mixed issue. Are you irritated that someone claims they don't like anything that isn't japanese, or are you irritated when somone knocks a dub actor that you think is really good?

Generally speaking, I do in fact have a hard time believing that anyone can't find one dub actor they like, but I still don't like calling people names like weaboo, but mainly because I think it's a silly sounding word.

[rereboy]

But that doesn't mean there is no canon. It just means a redefinition. I never claimed it couldn't be changed, but that the original work is automatically canon until stated otherwise.

There's no established/official canon.

There's the personal/fan canon, and there's what you believe would be the established canon. But since nothing has actually been established by an official source regarding that, there's no established/official canon and we can only guess or assume what exactly that would be.

Whenever you talk about canon, you aren't thinking about personal/fan canon, you are thinking about established/official canon but you fail to recognize the differences between your expectations for what that established/ofifical canon would be and what in fact would be, which is something that you can only guess or assume. You continue to continue to talk about canon as in established canon, when, in fact, you are just talking about your expectations for what established canon would be.

You are the one pressing the issue saying there is no canon.

Since established/official canon is what is officially determined to be canon, and there has been no word on that, that's an easy conclusion. Unless you are just talking about fan/personal canon, which, in that case, there is, but I'm pretty sure you are not talking about that.

And it's untrue that no one said the manga wouldn't be considered canon. Plenty of people say "there is no canon".

Stating the mere fact that there is no (established/official) canon is just that, a fact. No judgment is made regarding whether the manga would be included in the canon or not.

What you seem unable to understand is that canon/continuity doesn't need to be stated outright if it's the original source.

Doesn't it? Apparently, you would consider all of the manga to be canon, and yet, like I demonstrated, Toriyama could easily define at least part of the manga as non-canon (and he could do this regarding any part of the manga he feels like). This alone proves the difference between your expectations for what would be canon and what in fact could be defined as canon, but you continue to not see the difference and you actually argue that our assumption regarding canon is the same as actual canon (aka whatever is officially defined to be canon).

No matter how sure you are that something would be considered canon (and please, do note that I agree with you that the manga would be considered canon), that's still an expectation, not actual canon, which can only be defined officially.

If later on, the author changes something, then it needs to be redefined, but you don't need someone to state outright that "this event happens in the story" because it's rightly assumed to be the case.

That's right, you merely assume it would be considered canon. That's the whole point, that you can only assume, since it's not established.

[nickzambuto]

Alright, I figured out what brings out my irate fanboy.

It's when people on Kanzenshuu so callously dismiss certain dub actors that I think are really good. I know you guys hate the term weaboo, but if you're incapable of liking something that ISN'T Japanese, than you're a weaboo.

That's a mixed issue. Are you irritated that someone claims they don't like anything that isn't japanese, or are you irritated when somone knocks a dub actor that you think is really good?

Generally speaking, I do in fact have a hard time believing that anyone can't find one dub actor they like, but I still don't like calling people names like weaboo, but mainly because I think it's a silly sounding word.

It irritates me when people just dismiss the dub as automatically and forever inferior and laugh it off. Right now on the front page we have at least one thread asking "was Nadolny really THAT terrible?" like it's already a foregone conclusion, people just act like the Japanese cast is the greatest thing since sliced bread and nothing else should be taken seriously as Dragon Ball. As if I can't be a true fan or enjoy Dragon Ball properly with the different voice actors.

It's the blatant superiority of certain fans that comes off as patronizing, they don't even give the dub actors a chance, they're just used to the Japanese cast and laugh at the dub cast because it's something different.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Alright, I figured out what brings out my irate fanboy.

It's when people on Kanzenshuu so callously dismiss certain dub actors that I think are really good. I know you guys hate the term weaboo, but if you're incapable of liking something that ISN'T Japanese, than you're a weaboo.

That's a mixed issue. Are you irritated that someone claims they don't like anything that isn't japanese, or are you irritated when somone knocks a dub actor that you think is really good?

Generally speaking, I do in fact have a hard time believing that anyone can't find one dub actor they like, but I still don't like calling people names like weaboo, but mainly because I think it's a silly sounding word.

It irritates me when people just dismiss the dub as automatically and forever inferior and laugh it off. Right now on the front page we have at least one thread asking "was Nadolny really THAT terrible?" like it's already a foregone conclusion, people just act like the Japanese cast is the greatest thing since sliced bread and nothing else should be taken seriously as Dragon Ball. As if I can't be a true fan or enjoy Dragon Ball properly with the different voice actors.

It's the blatant superiority of certain fans that comes off as patronizing, they don't even give the dub actors a chance, they're just used to the Japanese cast and laugh at the dub cast because it's something different.

While I agree with a majority of what you said, I have to take exception to you using the Nadolny thread as an example. I'm pretty sure most people who waved her off provided dub substitutes that they felt did a better job than her, such as Hefferson and Clickenbeard.

[Doctor.]

they don't even give the dub actors a chance, they're just used to the Japanese cast and laugh at the dub cast because it's something different.

That sounds rather ignorant. What if they HAVE given the dub actors a chance and still think they're bad? What then?

[MarCas92]

It's the blatant superiority of certain fans that comes off as patronizing, they don't even give the dub actors a chance, they're just used to the Japanese cast and laugh at the dub cast because it's something different.

I would argue that here at Kanzenshuu the opposite is true. I grew up with the dub and later grew to prefer the original. If I were a gambling man, I would assume that it would be the same for most Kanzenshuu members who prefer the original.

[nickzambuto]

That sounds rather ignorant. What if they HAVE given the dub actors a chance and still think they're bad? What then?

That's a mixed issue. Are you irritated that someone claims they don't like anything that isn't japanese, or are you irritated when somone knocks a dub actor that you think is really good?

Generally speaking, I do in fact have a hard time believing that anyone can't find one dub actor they like, but I still don't like calling people names like weaboo, but mainly because I think it's a silly sounding word.

It irritates me when people just dismiss the dub as automatically and forever inferior and laugh it off. Right now on the front page we have at least one thread asking "was Nadolny really THAT terrible?" like it's already a foregone conclusion, people just act like the Japanese cast is the greatest thing since sliced bread and nothing else should be taken seriously as Dragon Ball. As if I can't be a true fan or enjoy Dragon Ball properly with the different voice actors.

It's the blatant superiority of certain fans that comes off as patronizing, they don't even give the dub actors a chance, they're just used to the Japanese cast and laugh at the dub cast because it's something different.

While I agree with a majority of what you said, I have to take exception to you using the Nadolny thread as an example. I'm pretty sure most people who waved her off provided dub substitutes that they felt did a better job than her, such as Hefferson and Clickenbeard.[/quote]
If somebody gives the actors a chance and still doesn't like them, then fine. But the level of hate is overblown and just unnecessary. When we have entire threads of people just talking about how bad they think the dub actors are, and then finish with "now those Japanese actors? They're all stellar." THAT'S when I have a problem. And why is this a bad opinion to have? I've seen many people on Kanzenshuu complain about how the YouTube comments section on certain videos is nothing but dismissal to the Japanese cast. But those same people that don't like that, do the same thing in reverse by treating the dub as a joke.