"Dragon Ball Super: Broly" - Animation Hub [Updated: 20/07]

[Noah]

On side a note, I never realized until now how much I rather goku to have his belt like that, instead of how he started using from Cell arc onwards.
It's a simple detail and yet it's making a lot of difference to me.

I would rather prefer Goku to abandon the god damn orange gi, if not at least keep with his RoF outfit. I don't like that they keep regressing to his previous Z outfits, seems like a appeal to nostalgia.

[Shaddy]

Goku's always been orange, it's a recognizable color for the character and iconic for the series. I'd rather they not progress to the blue (or brown?) until they really start officially moving into stuff with Uub and Pan. And by that point, I'd want Goku and Vegeta's exploits moved further into the background as they progress further and further beyond the realm of regular planets and universes, while the more domestic and smaller-scale battles and rivalries in U7 are left to Pan, Uub, Goten, Trunks, Bulla and Maron. seeing those five become the new core cast would be like a dream come true for me, even though I know it's probably never going to happen.

[emperior]

I am fine with Goku’s current outfit. Vegeta’s too is more than fine. They also changed the colors for this movie compared to Super’s, and they are now more appealing than ever.
The RoF outfits were nice and I would have liked to see them being used in the FT arc too, but them reverting to the classic outfits was also justified in-universe by Goku and Vegeta seemingly not wanting to be pawns of the Gods’ games - and it makes sense that they revert to their true outfits considering how prideful they are.

Although if we ever get beyond EoZ, it would be nice if Goku used his EoZ gi. It gives off the vibe that Goku is now a master himself, and the outfit also strikes a resemblance to the one he used as a kid.
Vegeta would need a change of look from EoZ though, as there he was just using his training outfit as the Tenkaichi tournament prohibited the use of armor.
Even then, I wouldn’t mind it if they also revert to their classic outfits again even after EoZ, as long as there is a reason.

[BlueBasilisk]

I am fine with Goku’s current outfit. Vegeta’s too is more than fine. They also changed the colors for this movie compared to Super’s, and they are now more appealing than ever.
The RoF outfits were nice and I would have liked to see them being used in the FT arc too, but them reverting to the classic outfits was also justified in-universe by Goku and Vegeta seemingly not wanting to be pawns of the Gods’ games - and it makes sense that they revert to their true outfits considering how prideful they are.

Although if we ever get beyond EoZ, it would be nice if Goku used his EoZ gi. It gives off the vibe that Goku is now a master himself, and the outfit also strikes a resemblance to the one he used as a kid.
Vegeta would need a change of look from EoZ though, as there he was just using his training outfit as the Tenkaichi tournament prohibited the use of armor.
Even then, I wouldn’t mind it if they also revert to their classic outfits again even after EoZ, as long as there is a reason.

You know, I think a fusion of Vegeta's RoF outfit and his classic outfit might look neat. Keep the styling of the RoF outfit but give it the classic blue undersuit and armor colors. Heroes did something like that with their 'Super' Goku by giving his RoF gi an undershirt and it looks pretty good.

[JazzMazz]

Sigh what a missed opportunity then. Nakatsuru would've been perfect animating with Shintani's designs compared to Yamamuro's. It would also be more sad considering he did work on both BoG and RoF.

Do you guys know how character designers work and what's the important of them?

Re-draw the characters to emulate them into a form that supports an anime while keeping the characters’ looks accurate to the manga or original source material. If this is a sarcastic question, Shintani is a character designer and he also animates. So i don’t see whats wrong.

Adding to that, the character designs for a show not only define the aesthetic for how the characters look, but also serve as an important reference sheet for how the characters can move. That's the reason why many people disliked a lot of Tadayoshi Yamamuro's modern designs. They were extremely restrictive in the way they could be animated(another aspect was that they were just kind of unseemly beside that). People on the other hand usually prefer Shintani's design not only for the a generally more streamlined and organic aesthetic, but also because his character designs cater for all different forms and methods of animation, something that wasn't true for the Yamamuro designs.

Just to clear up, that's not to say that animators didn't use different approaches uses Yamamuro's designs, however, I think its worth noting to achieve that, those animators had to animate outside of the restrictions of the character designs. Basically, the animators have to go off model and animate in a form that either looks out of place, or stylistically unsuited for the style the designs set.

Another of the benefits of that fans have found in the Shintani designs generally, is that they are malleable enough to allow multiple methods and approaches for animators to use while still allowing for some kind of stylistic coherency.

Ask me if their is anything you want me to clarify or you feel is unclear.

Feel mixed on the SSG Goku design.

[emperior]

Not even talking about how animation friendly these new designs are, especially compared to Yamamuro’s, it’s worth pointing out how Shintani has nailed down Toriyama’s art style, to the point some people have questioned many times whether or not some of the designs released come directly from Toriyama, or if he personally corrected some designs (eg. Vegeta’s SSB).
Some sheets look like they are taken straight out of Toriyama’s manga.

We know Toriyama has had an hand into helping with these designs, and he probably suggested a few corrections here and there.
Finally, I would say. I was always hoping to see modern DB finally go back to emulating Toriyama’s style, and they also fixed the colors to be more like in the full color manga!

[1345521]

Not even talking about how animation friendly these new designs are, especially compared to Yamamuro’s, it’s worth pointing out how Shintani has nailed down Toriyama’s art style, to the point some people have questioned many times whether or not some of the designs released come directly from Toriyama, or if he personally corrected some designs (eg. Vegeta’s SSB).
Some sheets look like they are taken straight out of Toriyama’s manga.

We know Toriyama has had an hand into helping with these designs, and he probably suggested a few corrections here and there.
Finally, I would say. I was always hoping to see modern DB finally go back to emulating Toriyama’s style, and they also fixed the colors to be more like in the full color manga!

Really interesting how you praise shintani art style of replicating akiras art style but somehow just go and bash toyotaro art style or never commend it even though toriyama has openly said how toyotaro art is really like his own. Just an interesting observation,

and this guy shintani...I mean he's good. Though I don't like his Frieza and goku sheets. Goku looks sorta like Luffy and is way to young looking, and Frieza looks a little plain and kind of stuby. He dosent have a more lean and menancing look he used to have.

And why does some cuts from the trailer look to have just total cgi? Like it's from a video game? It looked not to good IMO.

[Bergamo]

Not even talking about how animation friendly these new designs are, especially compared to Yamamuro’s, it’s worth pointing out how Shintani has nailed down Toriyama’s art style, to the point some people have questioned many times whether or not some of the designs released come directly from Toriyama, or if he personally corrected some designs (eg. Vegeta’s SSB).
Some sheets look like they are taken straight out of Toriyama’s manga.

We know Toriyama has had an hand into helping with these designs, and he probably suggested a few corrections here and there.
Finally, I would say. I was always hoping to see modern DB finally go back to emulating Toriyama’s style, and they also fixed the colors to be more like in the full color manga!

Really interesting how you praise shintani art style of replicating akiras art style but somehow just go and bash toyotaro art style or never commend it even though toriyama has openly said how toyotaro art is really like his own. Just an interesting observation,

and this guy shintani...I mean he's good. Though I don't like his Frieza and goku sheets. Goku looks sorta like Luffy and is way to young looking, and Frieza looks a little plain and kind of stuby. He dosent have a more lean and menancing look he used to have.

And why does some cuts from the trailer look to have just total cgi? Like it's from a video game? It looked not to good IMO.

Not everyone has to say, "I like Shintani, but check out Toyotaro. The manga is good." Toyotaro and his manga are not the topic of every discussion.

[emperior]

Not even talking about how animation friendly these new designs are, especially compared to Yamamuro’s, it’s worth pointing out how Shintani has nailed down Toriyama’s art style, to the point some people have questioned many times whether or not some of the designs released come directly from Toriyama, or if he personally corrected some designs (eg. Vegeta’s SSB).
Some sheets look like they are taken straight out of Toriyama’s manga.

We know Toriyama has had an hand into helping with these designs, and he probably suggested a few corrections here and there.
Finally, I would say. I was always hoping to see modern DB finally go back to emulating Toriyama’s style, and they also fixed the colors to be more like in the full color manga!

Really interesting how you praise shintani art style of replicating akiras art style but somehow just go and bash toyotaro art style or never commend it even though toriyama has openly said how toyotaro art is really like his own. Just an interesting observation,

and this guy shintani...I mean he's good. Though I don't like his Frieza and goku sheets. Goku looks sorta like Luffy and is way to young looking, and Frieza looks a little plain and kind of stuby. He dosent have a more lean and menancing look he used to have.

And why does some cuts from the trailer look to have just total cgi? Like it's from a video game? It looked not to good IMO.

You make it seem like all my posts have an hidden message against Toyotaro. They don't.
I don't care about Toyotaro's manga all that much, and his art also has some evident anatomy problems. And while Toriyama did indeed acknowledge Toyotaro's style as similar to his, his exact quote is "You might actually be the closest to my style" and he was basically comparing Toyotaro's style to that of animators (probably with Yamamuro's style in mind). See it for yourself: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... b-version/
Closest to his style doesn't mean identical to his style. And Toyotaro's style clearly isn't. As it's been shown by Toriyama himself when he stepped in to correct Toyotaro's drawings, as those corrections really do pop-up in the manga. Even then, I acknowledge how Toyotaro was able to tremendously improve his art thanks to the corrections Toriyama provided, to a point where he really got close to Toriyama's style for those characters that got corrected.

But Shintani's style is actually closer to Toriyama's, by a wide margin I would say.
Goku doesn't look like Luffy at all and Shintani's Freeza is actually much close to how he looked in the original manga and in Minus.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

You already stated a few times that you didn't read the original manga, so do yourself a favor and go read it. If you like Toyotaro's manga so much you will be amazed by Toriyama's. And you will see for yourself what I'm actually talking about.

[Cetra]

What does it even mean to be "close to Toriyama-san's style". That is such a loose thing. Toriyama-san has no stagnating art style. Like every other artist's style it changes all the time. For me "close to him" is being able to replicate all of them or at least one of them on a very impressive level. All of those people that work on Dragon Ball know that style. One can do it better than the other. And some like x better than y, which is also why even the word "better" only works with contexualized criteria, as always. I can also draw that way. And consistent, like Toriyama-san said to Toyble. But that does not mean that one would like it more, especially as I prefer a certain era, and that is the end of Z and GT era for my drawings.

[emperior]

What does it even mean to be "close to Toriyama-san's style". That is such a loose thing. Toriyama-san has no stagnating art style. Like every other artist's style it changes all the time. For me "close to him" is being able to replicate all of them or at least one of them on a very impressive level. All of those people that work on Dragon Ball know that style. One can do it better than the other. And some like x better than y, which is also why even the word "better" only works with contexualized criteria, as always. I can also draw that way. And consistent, like Toriyama-san said to Toyble. But that does not mean that one would like it more, especially as I prefer a certain era, and that is the end of Z and GT era for my drawings.

It’s not such a loose thing. Shintani is actually close to his Namek-Androids era art style, but is seemingly also able to perfectly replicate his modern art style judging by the designs of the new characters appearing in the movie. So much that some people actually believed that some of the designs revealed of Broly, Paragus and the Freeza force members were actually straight from Toriyama. For me that means that Shintani’s style is close to Toriyama’s. Unlike Yamamuro who has a very different style from Toriyama when he isn’t copying/tracing his designs. To a lesser extent the same applies to Toyotaro, who is able to provide a faithful Dragon Ball look but in his own style which looks a little different from any of the styles Toriyama ever had.
Personal preference isn’t a factor in this case. I think it’s clear that Shintani has studied Toriyama’s style a lot and is now able to faithfully replicate it.

[1345521]

What does it even mean to be "close to Toriyama-san's style". That is such a loose thing. Toriyama-san has no stagnating art style. Like every other artist's style it changes all the time. For me "close to him" is being able to replicate all of them or at least one of them on a very impressive level. All of those people that work on Dragon Ball know that style. One can do it better than the other. And some like x better than y, which is also why even the word "better" only works with contexualized criteria, as always. I can also draw that way. And consistent, like Toriyama-san said to Toyble. But that does not mean that one would like it more, especially as I prefer a certain era, and that is the end of Z and GT era for my drawings.

Exactly Centra, that Cell saga to GT art was AMAZING and is the best art style in dragon ball IMO. And those who can copy that (toyotaro and takashi) need to be at the core frunt. Though takashi with shintani arstyle does work and seems to look nice. I like how shintani gives that Z and dragon ball kinda hand drawn aesthetics, just wish it wasn't sayain saga and Frieza saga arstyle since they are outdated. But I think Akira artystyle has resorted to an fusion of his dragon ball art and Z art in a big fusion which shintani replicates so well. And this his replication makes it look like it's early Z art. When in reality, he's just copying modern toriyama... Or maybe shintani is referencing that early Z manga art. Hm...

[FortuneSSJ]

On side a note, I never realized until now how much I rather goku to have his belt like that, instead of how he started using from Cell arc onwards.
It's a simple detail and yet it's making a lot of difference to me.

That belt adds an element of looseness and flow to Goku's outfit. Without it his gi is just kinda stiff and starchy.

Yeah, it's exactly this!

Vegeta having a darker blue outfit is also smart, because the other blue tone didn't work well when he was using SSB without an aura.

[Noah]

I am fine with Goku’s current outfit. Vegeta’s too is more than fine.

The only thing good about Vegeta outfit is that his spandex is a dark blue which is unusual considering it always been light blue, also I like that he's going to use his Boo arc attire in some point of the movie.

[JulieYBM]

If I had any qualms it's that I'd be afraid of Shintani's designs being too much like Toriyama's designs. It'd be best for Shintani's designs to be something Shintani himself can easily draw, which would naturally be something closer to his own style.

[emperior]

If I had any qualms it's that I'd be afraid of Shintani's designs being too much like Toriyama's designs. It'd be best for Shintani's designs to be something Shintani himself can easily draw, which would naturally be something closer to his own style.

But isn’t it a usual practice for character designers of an animated show based on a manga (in case of Super, it’s the sequel of it) to adopt the author’s style? I don’t think Shintani has much trouble replicating Toriyama’s style, and they will serve the purpose of being a reference for other animators, with the intention being of a Dragon Ball looking closer to Toriyama’s own style, maybe with a tv show in mind where Shintani wouldn’t be working on every episode.
It’s also time they go back into adapting the author’s style, apart from the new Super characters personally designed by Toriyama it’s been ever since Cell arc that they started deviating from copying his style.
It worked for Buu arc, but it didn’t for Super and I was always jealous of these new animes being very faithful to their manga’s art style.

[JulieYBM]

If I had any qualms it's that I'd be afraid of Shintani's designs being too much like Toriyama's designs. It'd be best for Shintani's designs to be something Shintani himself can easily draw, which would naturally be something closer to his own style.

But isn’t it a usual practice for character designers of an animated show based on a manga (in case of Super, it’s the sequel of it) to adopt the author’s style? I don’t think Shintani has much trouble replicating Toriyama’s style, and they will serve the purpose of being a reference for other animators, with the intention being of a Dragon Ball looking closer to Toriyama’s own style, maybe with a tv show in mind where Shintani wouldn’t be working on every episode.
It’s also time they go back into adapting the author’s style, apart from the new Super characters personally designed by Toriyama it’s been ever since Cell arc that they started deviating from copying his style.
It worked for Buu arc, but it didn’t for Super and I was always jealous of these new animes being very faithful to their manga’s art style.

That still doesn't mean it'll be easy. I'm always too leery of copying an artists' style too much because ultimately it has to be easiest for the character designer to animate and correct himself. Yamamuro Tadayoshi just up and tracing Toriyama's designs probably made animating some of those older films a real pain, hence the rather limited animation in them. With Naruto we know that Nishio Tetsuya and Suzuki Hirofumi followed their own styles much more closely than full copying Kishimoto Masashi's to the point that Kishimoto started copying them since their drawings we so much easier.

[JazzMazz]

In the latest interview with the movie director Tatsuya Nagamine, they touched on several production aspects. Of the things he touched on, these are the pertinent remarks he made which directly acknowledge the films visuals, or more accurately, the films portrayal of visual elements.

Nagamine felt the image of what a DB anime was like had gotten too fixed; he wants to refresh how Super Saiyan transformations/Kamehamehas/etc are depicted, using the latest animation methods.
With that in mind, Toriyama’s “tingly back” description for turning Super Saiyan inspired him to focus on the transformation's physical aspects.

With this in mind, it raises the question on how do people think that the new movie is going to reinvigorate this arguably overdone visual staples of the franchise?
Do people think they should refresh the presentation of these visual elements, or are they fine as they are, and what do people think of Nagamine focusing on the physical elements of transformation?
How would people like to see this handled, and how do people believe it will most likely be handled?

[JulieYBM]

I'm sure that the transformations will be more detailed, but perhaps Nagamine has pushed Toriyama to give clearer definitions to the advantages and weaknesses of each form? After all, we're seeing Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan used in these films, so perhaps what Nagamine means is that each form will have a visual trait specific to it? I'm sure the cut of Gokuu transforming in the opening was just the easiest to finish transformation for a trailer so it was included, but we do know that Broli's transformation in the trailer looks a bit more detailed.

I'm thinking we'll see muscles growing or shrinking animated in detail for the transformations, though.

[majinwarman]

I'm sure that the transformations will be more detailed, but perhaps Nagamine has pushed Toriyama to give clearer definitions to the advantages and weaknesses of each form? After all, we're seeing Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan used in these films, so perhaps what Nagamine means is that each form will have a visual trait specific to it? I'm sure the cut of Gokuu transforming in the opening was just the easiest to finish transformation for a trailer so it was included, but we do know that Broli's transformation in the trailer looks a bit more detailed.

I'm thinking we'll see muscles growing or shrinking animated in detail for the transformations, though.

I agree with your thought process. I'm still learning about the production side of Dragon Ball do I can't really have as detailed thoughts as you do but I understand what you mean.