New "Remastered Box Set" Information

[Mr.Piccolo]

After hearing about this, uh, "scandal", I really don't know what screenshots to believe. Can somebody post some *real* screenshots. Not for the sake of looking like you know what you are talking about. Just real caps from the versions that have been mentioned in this thread. Thank you.
-Rick

[ect5150]

These should be what you want. Give DBW some thanks.

[Gokuden553]

Gokuden553, I also got ripped off with those bootlegs. It was well over a year before I found out that they weren't genuine.

You too! I still can't believe that I bought them from that seller... if only others here believed that too.

Bideru, Trunks and Son-Gohan
Son-Goten, Trunks, Son-Goku, Pan-chan and Bejita

Okay, so not only are you using shit bootlegs at a lower resolution as a comparison and throwing the thread into a whole lot of "WELL THIS, BUT THAT< BUT WAIT, THERES THIS, WHAT", but you're also using the most wappity weaboo japanophile names short of I dunno, Torankasu. What the hell?

Sorry about that, I was just proving my point that I had later episodes of the same quality after those screen shots I posted earlier today... as for the names that seems how the Japanese pronounce them

Ok now since that's out of the way, I just need to prove one more point later then I'm done.

[Blitzen]

... as for the names that seems how the Japanese pronounce them

What you've got to understand is that the Japanese have very different and odd (comparativley speaking) ways of pronouncing foreign and fake-foreign words (Like Vegeta isn't a Japanese word, but it isn't a foreign word, but it is written in a form of Japanese and therefore read like a Japanese word when acted), but that doesn't make their pronounciation correct, and definantly not when you're writing it in English.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I thought those DragonBox images were wrong, but to be honest I was too damned lazy to pull my copies and get the actual screens. Oh well, sorry you got ripped off, dude.

Just wanted to share, however, that my girlfriend was looking over my shoulder when I was reading this thread and asked about it, so I showed her FUNi's trailer...she said it looked completely retarded. She said:

"Wait...you've shown me some episodes...and there's always closeups during the fights...so they're always gonna be missing the tops of their heads. See? No one has a top to their head!"

She also said the music was horrible and the trailer looked really stupid, but that's another thing entirely ;p

-Corey

P.S. -

Actual Dragon Box image


FUNi comparison

Whoa, wait. Is that just a one-time occurrence, or are they also snipping the lefthand side of the frames? O_o

[Gokuden553]

I thought those DragonBox images were wrong, but to be honest I was too damned lazy to pull my copies and get the actual screens. Oh well, sorry you got ripped off, dude.

Just wanted to share, however, that my girlfriend was looking over my shoulder when I was reading this thread and asked about it, so I showed her FUNi's trailer...she said it looked completely retarded. She said:

"Wait...you've shown me some episodes...and there's always closeups during the fights...so they're always gonna be missing the tops of their heads. See? No one has a top to their head!"

She also said the music was horrible and the trailer looked really stupid, but that's another thing entirely ;p

-Corey

P.S. -

Actual Dragon Box image


FUNi comparison

Whoa, wait. Is that just a one-time occurrence, or are they also snipping the lefthand side of the frames? O_o

Yup they did snip the left hand side of the frames, I already pointed this out in my preveous comparison but I guess it never got read... oh well.

Anyways you can see more clouds in the Funi-remaster then in the Dragon Box image, yet this made the left frame loose a lot of Goku's body in that scene.

[MagicBox]

Whoa, wait. Is that just a one-time occurrence, or are they also snipping the lefthand side of the frames? O_o

I don't think they're cutting the left side of the frames off. In that particular shot in the show, the "camera" starts from the right and then pans over to the left, revealing all of Goku. It's entirely possible that the screenshot from FUNi's trailer was taken at an earlier point in the scene than the shot from the DragonBox, if that makes sense to anyone.

Plus, the comparison image of Gohan that FUNi gave us didn't have the left side cut off; it actually had a tiny bit more on the left. They aren't cutting the sides off.

.... I hope.

[Gokuden553]

As you can see Goku's shirt has been brightened more than the Ultimate Uncut version showed, also his skin colour is very close to the Dragon Box version... though it seems that the sky can't be made any better possibly due to Funimations bad quality versions of the Saiyan saga.

[DBW]

Whoa, wait. Is that just a one-time occurrence, or are they also snipping the lefthand side of the frames? O_o

No, it's a horizontal pan across Goku. I just captured my image to match Gokuden553's image, not FUNimation's. The FUNimation version does indeed have more information on both the left and right sides, rest assured.

Yup they did snip the left hand side of the frames

I really hate to come off as a jerk here, but could you please just back off with this comparison stuff. You don't have the means to do an adequate comparison, and you just don't seem to know what you're talking about half the time.

I'm sorry if I'm being too harsh, but you've already spun this thread in several crazy directions, and we don't need another unnecessary twist...

though it seems that the sky can't be made any better possibly due to Funimations bad quality versions of the Saiyan saga.

Yeah, there's something up with those colours. I suspect that when FUNi says they got the original "masters", they literally mean the 1989 master copies, and not the original film. Either that or they got the original film and just fucked it up already...

[Gokuden553]

Oh by the way DBW, why are the episodes I bought off ebay seem to have no grain in them... unlike that image you posted also how was it possible for them to get rid of all that grain?

Also what's up with the brightness on Goku's red shirt, it seems that the rest of the episode isn't affected but when it comes to the red colour it's messed up... why's that?

For example take a look at this image below that I recently screen captured, off episode 289 from my Dragon Ball Z TV Series Complete 20 DVD set.



Can you see everything looks perfect apart from Pan's red shirt

[DBW]

Oh by the way DBW, why are the episodes I bought off ebay seem to have no grain in them... unlike that image you posted also how was it possible for them to get rid of all that grain?

Also what's up with the brightness on Goku's red shirt, it seems that the rest of the episode isn't affected but when it comes to the red colour it's messed up... why's that?

I can't say for sure, since I don't actually know the process they used. I would guess that...

A) They used a digital filter to get rid of the grain, or
B) They cranked up the brightness to bleed out a lot of the grain, although they probably did both.

The brightness has actually been cranked on everything, red just stands out the most, and is generally the worst colour when it comes to saturation. Honestly though, I don't know. I don't know what they did, but the result is pretty out there (at least as far as brightness goes).

no grain in them... unlike that image you posted

The Dragon Box preserves the original film and presents it in the highest possible quality. The damage was removed from the footage, but grain unfortunately is just the result of the age of the series. Pony Canyon wasn't out to make the series look "Super Digital-animation Uber Fantastic!!!", it's just a simple presentation of the series as it was originally created.

In still images your bootlegs may look quite nice, and the Dragon Box may look grainy and worn-out, but once the footage is put into motion everything changes. To me Dragon Box is like sitting there and running the 16mm film through a projector, or flipping through the original animation cels. It's a flawless presentation of what the series was meant to be. Can it look better? Of course, they could remaster the damn thing until it was in 3d... Would it be Dragon Ball? In my eyes, no.
[/end purist speech]




Ok, well if this is from the bootleg then yes it does look very good, almost exactly on par with the Dragon Box. As the show goes on the quality naturally improves and so I guess the bootleggers didn't see a need to "remaster" the later episodes as heavily. Episode 30=1989, episode 289=1996 after all.

Gokuden553's image


Dragon Box

[MajinVejitaXV]

Oh by the way DBW, why are the episodes I bought off ebay seem to have no grain in them... unlike that image you posted also how was it possible for them to get rid of all that grain?

They run the footage through a series of filters, including a noise reduction filter. It applies a slight blur to compensate for grain, but it also makes things look worse in motion. It's the same as using the blur tools in Photoshop.

As for the red issue, it appears the 'red' was emphasized. This is an old technique that was once used to bring out flesh tones (and is still used to this day on some televisions, hence NTSC being called 'Never The Same Color twice' in some circles due to a non-consistent application of the standard).

The bootlegger (and FUNi) have seemingly done this along with an overall change in the saturation of color. Why? To try and make it look younger, I suppose. Doesn't really work that well

-Corey

[Gokuden553]

Oh by the way DBW, why are the episodes I bought off ebay seem to have no grain in them... unlike that image you posted also how was it possible for them to get rid of all that grain?

They run the footage through a series of filters, including a noise reduction filter. It applies a slight blur to compensate for grain, but it also makes things look worse in motion. It's the same as using the blur tools in Photoshop.

As for the red issue, it appears the 'red' was emphasized. This is an old technique that was once used to bring out flesh tones (and is still used to this day on some televisions, hence NTSC being called 'Never The Same Color twice' in some circles due to a non-consistent application of the standard).

The bootlegger (and FUNi) have seemingly done this along with an overall change in the saturation of color. Why? To try and make it look younger, I suppose. Doesn't really work that well

-Corey

I see now, so basically the DBZ episodes I have were the perfect quality ones that Funimation never obtained in the end.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I see now, so basically the DBZ episodes I have were the perfect quality ones that Funimation never obtained in the end.

Basically, what you more than likely have is a ripped version of the DragonBox that was recompressed and then altered via filters to hide the compression artifacts that came from compressing the footage more.

Also, if you're just hitting the screen capture button, it appears your discs have some wierd resolution. It's almost a PAL resolution, but not quite O_o;;

-Corey

[Gokuden553]

I see now, so basically the DBZ episodes I have were the perfect quality ones that Funimation never obtained in the end.

Basically, what you more than likely have is a ripped version of the DragonBox that was recompressed and then altered via filters to hide the compression artifacts that came from compressing the footage more.

Also, if you're just hitting the screen capture button, it appears your discs have some wierd resolution. It's almost a PAL resolution, but not quite O_o;;

-Corey

Well it ain't just my Dragon Ball Z TV Series Complete 20 DVD set episodes which come out in that resolution when I played my Naruto Uncut boxset 1, it also comes out like that aswell.

Same goes for when I play it in other players aswell?

[MajinVejitaXV]

Well it ain't just my Dragon Ball Z TV Series Complete 20 DVD set episodes which come out in that resolution when I played my Naruto Uncut boxset 1, it also comes out like that aswell.

Same goes for when I play it in other players aswell?

Strange. I have no idea, since I don't have the discs and don't know your setup.

-Corey

[Amiable-Akuma]

*hi-jacks thread in fit of frustration*

This whole situation is stomach-turning to me. What does a loyal DB fan have to do to get what 95% of other anime/movie fans have gotten with 95% of their releases!?!? I mean, the DVD format has been around for 9 years now. DB is arguably the most popular anime series of all time, yet even third tier J-pop hentai has been able get perfect releases their first time out for years now.

And I'm not just talking about Funimation. But Toei too! (pauses for all the gasps from audience)

Even the current, most sane route of just buying the R2 singles is wierd as hell. Basic copies from the Dragon Boxes that take them forever to put out in non-saga sets, with a seemingly low possibility of maybe ever even seeing the original DB or GT series even done in the same way.

I own Dragon Boxes but before I went through the hell and exoribitant costs that was importing them - I long examined whether I could just buy the singles - but the fact that it seemed to me that Toei only considered DBZ, and not DB, as something worth putting out (in terms, of guaranteed profit over production costs - since Z is much more popular than the original DB) in singles...destroyed my patience.

That, the fact that they were/are going soooooo slow in actually putting out the singles, that I thought there was/is an only slight chance of them actually doing original DB singles, and the facts that I HAVE TO watch everything in chronological story-line order (and I consider the original DB series to be better or equal to Z) - made me panic and give in.

Was definitely worth it to me in the end. Money I can re-earn anywhere, anytime - but perfect DB sets are like the holy grail; impossible to find and just as valueable. But the god-awful way that DB/Z/GT is guaranteed to be handled in the US and the god-awful limited availability of the perfect Toei sets is enough to drive a man insane. Toei is as crazy w/their DB release practices as Funi is with their authoring practices.

I mean, what is with Toei and their shyness/insecurity towards letting people own DB? I mean, even the people of Japan who they owe all their original profits to? I know going against Toei is sacrilege but seriously. It took them FOREVER for them to release/supervise any kind of R2 release on DVD and even then it's the most expensive, strange, limited release in the history of time. Now they are doing singles but there are no special features, they will take forever to finish, and I'd be willing to bet that they don't even do the same for GT or the original DB series.

Is this typical of Japan releases? I don't know why Toei didn't just start creating easy mass-market DVD boxsets per saga when the DVD format launched 9 years ago or whatever. (and yes, I know the trivial/"history of DVD" reasons, but that's irrelevant so let's not start arguing those - you know the point I'm trying to make)

Okay, that's all. Just some thoughts I had. Needed to vent for a second. Thanks for listening. /rant

[BoxerGloves]

Heh.

This whole current situation with FUNi and DBZ reminds me of the campaign that Playboy Magazine and the porno channel Playboy TV were playing couple of years ago about Hugh Hefner's mag's 50th anniversary:

"Playboy. 50 years, and we're still just getting started."

Just like that, a similar logic can be applied here. Right now FUNi might as well be telling us, the hardcore dedicated fans, the following:

"FUNimation and Dragon Ball Z. 10 years, and we're still shitting all over the show."

[MajinVejitaXV]

Even the current, most sane route of just buying the R2 singles is wierd as hell. Basic copies from the Dragon Boxes that take them forever to put out in non-saga sets, with a seemingly low possibility of maybe ever even seeing the original DB or GT series even done in the same way.

It's taken them a year to release almost the entire series. You'd call that 'wierd as hell'? You obviously weren't around for FUNi's "Hey, this week we're releasing the Freeza discs! And two weeks from now, Majin Vejita!"-release schedule back in October of 2001 ;p

And I don't see any reason to doubt Toei's intent to release DB/DBGT. They're simply releasing the singles in the same order that the boxes were released.

I own Dragon Boxes but before I went through the hell and exoribitant costs that was importing them - I long examined whether I could just buy the singles - but the fact that it seemed to me that Toei only considered DBZ, and not DB, as something worth putting out (in terms, of guaranteed profit over production costs - since Z is much more popular than the original DB) in singles...destroyed my patience.

See above reply. It makes sense from a marketing standpoint to hit DBZ first because:

A.) It was the first box
-and-
B.) It's the longest of the three series

That, the fact that they were/are going soooooo slow in actually putting out the singles, that I thought there was/is an only slight chance of them actually doing original DB singles, and the facts that I HAVE TO watch everything in chronological story-line order (and I consider the original DB series to be better or equal to Z) - made me panic and give in.

249 episodes in 13 months. Yeah, that's...atrocious. Doing DB first might have made sense, but just look at how they released things and it makes sense: DBZ was 291 episodes, DB was 153, DBGT was 64 and there were 17 movies. They released the trilogy in order, largest to smallest.

But the god-awful way that DB/Z/GT is guaranteed to be handled in the US and the god-awful limited availability of the perfect Toei sets is enough to drive a man insane. Toei is as crazy w/their DB release practices as Funi is with their authoring practices.

It's not as though Toei tricked anyone. They stated these would be limited editions (in the truest sense, not the typical American "Spiderman 2: Limited Gift Box that you can still find in stock 2 years later at Best Buy"-manner"). And now, they're releasing the discs as single releases.

I mean, what is with Toei and their shyness/insecurity towards letting people own DB? I mean, even the people of Japan who they owe all their original profits to? I know going against Toei is sacrilege but seriously. It took them FOREVER for them to release/supervise any kind of R2 release on DVD and even then it's the most expensive, strange, limited release in the history of time. Now they are doing singles but there are no special features, they will take forever to finish, and I'd be willing to bet that they don't even do the same for GT or the original DB series.

It's not sacrilege to go against Toei. They're a company.

As for 'taking forever', I disagree. They could have spit out dogshit releases that contained old masters with minimal restoration and probably still made quite the profit. Instead, they took the time to go back to the original material, make pristine transfers and give us the best look at DragonBall/Z/GT that has ever been seen. As for the extras, yes they actually left some stuff exclusive to the boxes. And I still don't get your insecurities about Toei releasing the other two series O_o;

As for price, just think about this: DragonBox Z Vol.1 &2 were 100,000yen each. That's about $1700-1800. FUNi released the same materials (looking far worse) in 88 discs at $24.95 each (86 for the series, and then the two specials), which is about $2200. Which was expensive? ;p

Meanwhile, I've been waiting for Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet, a single 4 hour movie, to come out on DVD for over a decade

I don't know why Toei didn't just start creating easy mass-market DVD boxsets per saga when the DVD format launched 9 years ago or whatever. (and yes, I know the trivial/"history of DVD" reasons, but that's irrelevant so let's not start arguing those - you know the point I'm trying to make)

Uh...you wanna know why they didn't crank out a multi-million dollar project on a fledgling format? Well, they didn't want to lose their ass would be the simple answer. Would you invest a ton of money in a new, unproven technology? Besides, do you know how long it took them to do all they did for the DragonBox releases? I don't, but I'm willing to bet it took a decent chunk of time.

Okay, that's all. Just some thoughts I had. Needed to vent for a second. Thanks for listening. /rant

That's cool. I'm just speaking my mind also, but you're welcome to yours.

My point in a nutshell is this: Toei did a damn good job, IMHO. A lot of people didn't wanna mess with buying the show over a long period of time, so they did the collector's boxes. Then, once all those were done, they went back and started releasing the series in 18 episode bursts (6 episodes a disc, 3 discs at a time) for those who didn't wanna buy the whole series.

What's to complain about? Everyone wins, or so it would seem to me.

-Corey

[DBW]

What does a loyal DB fan have to do to get what 95% of other anime/movie fans have gotten with 95% of their releases!?!?

I hate to say it, but it seems like FUNimation has no faith in the series. There's always something that has to be changed. I think they view the series as being inherently flawed, and they have no choice but to swoop in and rescue it. Music, script, fucking screen format...ugh.

And about Toei not releasing Dragon Ball soon enough, keep in mind that they're one of the largest animation studios in the world, and have LOTS of *huge* TV series to release. Dragon Ball, a clissic Toei series, got a top-notch release for it's 20th anniversary. That's pretty damn good, all things considered. I mean, would you have preferred if Dr. Slump got the first DVD release, and Dragon Ball got pushed back to a 25th or even 30th anniversary release? I think not. With the current technology and the full-fledged rebirth of the series, I'd say Toei's timing was just right.