"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Whatever]

Ability users have always been tiricky to deal with no matter your skill or power

Yeah and Hit who is much stronger and a better fighter than Gohan had trouble with Dyspo,so by default Gohan stands almost no chance unless somebody helps him or he gets a power boost for some reason.
If anything out of all the top tiers left,Gohan has the most chances of beating Kale since she is a brute as well and assuming she is still only low ssb tier like him.

While iffy power scaling in DBS might be attributed to poor planning or lack of caring, Gohan's fluctuating power actually makes sense somewhat. He's always been a wild card in that sense and he'll always have that limitless potential on his side. I could pretty much see him take down even Jiren if he is given a reason to get angry enough.

Piccolo got killed in rof and still nothing.
Gohan also cannot get any rage boosts anymore since those were his hidden potential and his 'Ultimate' form brought it all out.

[HeroR]

We definitely don't know that..
At the moment of IT, Freeza knew Gohan to be as strong as the SS he encountered in Rof and he said Gohan could handle if he went "full power", even if freeza wasn't using all his power against the IT counter all he would have to do is use as much power as rusty SS gohan, Gohan didn't even think that little power was needed to counter IT, gohan was playing the Yadrat and he was enjoying coming up with different ideas..
Freeza certainly didn't come up with any technique to counter IT, he also overpowered it..
Also, When Gohan went ultimate, Freeza went golden to fight him..

Anyway, I feel like this is slowly gearing towards pure strength discussion, I will stop here for now..

We know Freeza didn't since he wasn't golden. And Freeze can sense ki, so he knows how strong Gohan is in his base compared to where he was in Resurrection 'F'. Also, "Gohan was playing the Yadrat" has no proof what so ever since Gohan was nearly defeated twice and Gohan certainly wasn't enjoying himself. This is, to be blunt, is headcanon.

Freeze counter it by predicting where the guy was going to be and using his tail to block his blind spots. So Freeze didn't simply overpowered the Yadrat. And what does Freeze going golden against Gohan, which wasn't even a serious fight, have to do with a Gohan's lack of battle experience?

[Michsi]

Again, Gohan's problem isn't 'lack of power' or even 'fluctuating power', he lacks experience and battle smarts which is a constant theme for him. Like he should have to brute force his way to beat IT when he has seen the move since his childhood.

That's true and you can call it the flip side to having that unlimited power. It made him the sort that can get one-shoted by a wayward beam as well as an unstoppable force if the situation calls for it - it all comes down to how the story wants to use him, but it's still believable if he suddenly jumps to Jiren's level. The story only needs an incentive for him.

One thing that Super is consistent about is getting people to mention Gohan's potential and then it never really see it happens at all.

To be fair, this is the first time he's been used since ROF arc, and that arc was all about pointing out how far he'd fallen. The potential thing is one of Gohan's most defining traits. It's just part of who he is as a character and it will always hang over his head for better or worse. Not saying they should or will use it, but it's still there to be used should the writers ever decide to.

Piccolo got killed in rof and still nothing.
Gohan also cannot get any rage boosts anymore since those were his hidden potential and his 'Ultimate' form brought it all out.

Again, it all comes down to the narrative. ROF was about Goku and Vegeta - Gohan's role there was mostly to show how weak he'd gotten. His training has actually been a recurring thing throughout the past few arcs even if the recruitment episode made it seem like he had taken a break from training with Piccolo and found his determination again after the exhibition matches. Speaking of which, Piccolo believed that he could get even stronger and that might have been foreshadowing.

[Whatever]

Again, it all comes down to the narrative. ROF was about Goku and Vegeta - Gohan's role there was mostly to show how weak he'd gotten. His training has actually been a recurring thing throughout the past few arcs even if the recruitment episode made it seem like he had taken a break from training with Piccolo and found his determination again after the exhibition matches. Speaking of which, Piccolo believed that he could get even stronger and that might have been foreshadowing.

Piccolo said he could get stronger and he got stronger,the Goku vs Gohan was there to show that,this was the foreshadowing for episode 90.
If it all comes down to the narrative then the same thing goes for all the characters,this does not change that Gohan cannot get any rage boosts anymore because thats what the Ultimate form is for.

[Hawk9211]

At first,I was very happy when I saw so much replies in one of my favourite threads.But,it turned out to be a bunch of namekian and saiyans(along with tingly saiyan fans) argument.Guys,please don't ruin my favourite thread by redundant and circling arguments.
Btw,namekiansaiyan as a fellow piccolo fan I salute your passion. Even though I have low expectations.

[Michsi]

Again, it all comes down to the narrative. ROF was about Goku and Vegeta - Gohan's role there was mostly to show how weak he'd gotten. His training has actually been a recurring thing throughout the past few arcs even if the recruitment episode made it seem like he had taken a break from training with Piccolo and found his determination again after the exhibition matches. Speaking of which, Piccolo believed that he could get even stronger and that might have been foreshadowing.

Piccolo said he could get stronger and he got stronger,the Goku vs Gohan was there to show that,this was the foreshadowing for episode 90.
If it all comes down to the narrative then the same thing goes for all the characters,this does not change that Gohan cannot get any rage boosts anymore because thats what the Ultimate form is for.

Most definitely! But it's made easier in Gohan's case.

Don't know, I can still see it happen. The rage boost is his thing. So many rules got ignored and rewritten for DBS, this seems like a minor thing.

[namekiansaiyan]

nameksaiyan is surely on a rampage

As a fellow Piccolo fan, I salute you

At first,I was very happy when I saw so much replies in one of my favourite threads.But,it turned out to be a bunch of namekian and saiyans(along with tingly saiyan fans) argument.Guys,please don't ruin my favourite thread by redundant and circling arguments.
Btw,namekiansaiyan as a fellow piccolo fan I salute your passion. Even though I have low expectations.

I have to make sure Piccolo is represented.

If the are new pages with no new spoilers in it, then there is a good chance I caused it somehow even when I don't talk about Piccolo.

[Kishido]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

[namekiansaiyan]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

The bugs have special abilities not power.

The only other powerful person is the new 'super warrior' which I doubt is Universe 4 as the episodes are not focused on them and would be strange for them to come out of nowhere at that specific time.

[Ki Breaker]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

The thing is, the manga also suggests Jiren is better than vermouth and vermouth is a god in both..
Quitela could be hiding something

[Kishido]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

The bugs have special abilities not power.

The only other powerful person is the new 'super warrior' which I doubt is Universe 4 as the episodes are not focused on them and would be strange for them to come out of nowhere at that specific time.

That wasn't even my main point.

But if Whis and Beerus where talkign about Quitella there is someone hax at let there as you said

If not and Whis meant Jiren... it means Vermout is stronger. This brings the question... Did in the anime Beerus lost an arm wrestling match to him? If no, why was he talking about Quitella?

Further more I ask myself all the time why the hell Beerus hasn't freaked out about the info knowing that the GoD "stronger" than him has a mortal even stronger... He should have pissed himself knowing that Goku and Co stand no chance

[BlueBasilisk]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

Well, we know know Jiren is stronger than Belmod but it's entirely possible there are other mortals out there stronger than their respective gods or possessing abilities that make them unbeatable. The fact that both the anime and manga brought up the arm wrestling thing is pretty fishy. Jiren might not be the most dangerous threat looming out there.

[namekiansaiyan]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

The bugs have special abilities not power.

The only other powerful person is the new 'super warrior' which I doubt is Universe 4 as the episodes are not focused on them and would be strange for them to come out of nowhere at that specific time.

That wasn't even my main point.

But if Whis and Beerus where talkign about Quitella there is someone hax at let there as you said

If not and Whis meant Jiren... it means Vermout is stronger. This brings the question... Did in the anime Beerus lost an arm wrestling match to him? If no, why was he talking about Quitella?

Further more I ask myself all the time why the hell Beerus hasn't freaked out about the info knowing that the GoD "stronger" than him has a mortal even stronger... He should have pissed himself knowing that Goku and Co stand no chance

Remember Beerus was the one who mentioned the arm wrestling match and not Whis. Beerus is probably embarrased about losing and that is the first thing that came to his mind especially as Whis teases him all the time. Quitela and Beerus are supposed to be rivals as well.

Beerus probably is secretly freaked out about Jiren just like Frieza is.

[Kishido]

The bugs have special abilities not power.

The only other powerful person is the new 'super warrior' which I doubt is Universe 4 as the episodes are not focused on them and would be strange for them to come out of nowhere at that specific time.

That wasn't even my main point.

But if Whis and Beerus where talkign about Quitella there is someone hax at let there as you said

If not and Whis meant Jiren... it means Vermout is stronger. This brings the question... Did in the anime Beerus lost an arm wrestling match to him? If no, why was he talking about Quitella?

Further more I ask myself all the time why the hell Beerus hasn't freaked out about the info knowing that the GoD "stronger" than him has a mortal even stronger... He should have pissed himself knowing that Goku and Co stand no chance

Remember Beerus was the one who mentioned the arm wrestling match and not Whis. Beerus is probably embarrased about losing and that is the first thing that came to his mind especially as Whis teases him all the time. Quitela and Beerus are supposed to be rivals as well.

Beerus probably is secretly freaked out about Jiren just like Frieza is.

But that would mean at least anime Vermouth is stronger if Jiren is the one Whis heared about

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So I've been thinking we know Goku goes off to train Uub but what if Vegeta goes off to be a mentor for the Saiyans of Planet Sadala? Think that would be a perfect closing chapter for him.

[JazzMazz]

I really want to know if Quitela in both anime and manga is the GoD Beerus was talking about.

Cuz Whis was talking about GoD stronger than Beerus and a mortal even stronger than THIS god. Beerus said he only lost an arm wrestling match... So far everyone thinks it is Jiren... meaning Vermouth is stronger than Beerus

So I don't know if the anime really makes Vermouth stronger or U4 has something BIG in their sleeve

The bugs have special abilities not power.

The only other powerful person is the new 'super warrior' which I doubt is Universe 4 as the episodes are not focused on them and would be strange for them to come out of nowhere at that specific time.

That wasn't even my main point.

But if Whis and Beerus where talkign about Quitella there is someone hax at let there as you said

If not and Whis meant Jiren... it means Vermout is stronger. This brings the question... Did in the anime Beerus lost an arm wrestling match to him? If no, why was he talking about Quitella?

Further more I ask myself all the time why the hell Beerus hasn't freaked out about the info knowing that the GoD "stronger" than him has a mortal even stronger... He should have pissed himself knowing that Goku and Co stand no chance

I don't think he put much stock into the idea of a mortal being stronger than their God of Destruction. To him it was just a rumour that had been floating about and nothing more.

[kinisking]

And that's the problem. He shouldn't have to used his full power or anything closed to it to counter IT. Freeze certainly didn't and he should be only as strong or weaker than the base form Saiyans.

We definitely don't know that..
At the moment of IT, Freeza knew Gohan to be as strong as the SS he encountered in Rof and he said Gohan could handle if he went "full power", even if freeza wasn't using all his power against the IT counter all he would have to do is use as much power as rusty SS gohan, Gohan didn't even think that little power was needed to counter IT, gohan was playing the Yadrat and he was enjoying coming up with different ideas..
Freeza certainly didn't come up with any technique to counter IT, he also overpowered it..
Also, When Gohan went ultimate, Freeza went golden to fight him..

Anyway, I feel like this is slowly gearing towards pure strength discussion, I will stop here for now..

Not even worth it dude. People will continue to say Gohan's a bad fighter even though he's used strategy several times this arc, and has been treated as a competent fighter besides for the fact that he gets overconfident. If he was a bad fighter, roshi and piccolo wouldn't have followed his orders, he wouldn't have done so well against Lavendar or thought of the energy barrier afterwards with Goku, Goku wouldn't have been confident in him being able to beat Botamo, he wouldn't have beat Obuni. You can bring up IT but he wasn't at full power, and like you said Freeza just overpowered it too.

[HeroR]

Not even worth it dude. People will continue to say Gohan's a bad fighter even though he's used strategy several times this arc, and has been treated as a competent fighter besides for the fact that he gets overconfident.

I don’t recall them every saying Gohan couldn’t counter IT because he was overconfident. And again, why do Gohan has to be at full power to counter IT? Freeza didn’t need to go golden, yet Gohan needed his full power? Freeza didn’t even overpower IT, he countered by watching his blind spots and predicting the attacks.

And, “he's used strategy several times this arc”. Twice. One they rewrote how Botoma’s power worked and it wasn’t even as good as what Goku and Vegeta did, and his strategy for the U10 was tanked and punch.

If this is good strategy, then the standards for Gohan are really lackluster.

[namekiansaiyan]

Anyone who has watched Dragon Ball would know that Roshi and Piccolo will never need to take help from Gohan about strategy

Goku told Gohan how to beat Botamo. Against Jimeze he was useless and doesn't seem to realise if you are struggling then you should start to raise your power as Frieza mentioned.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Not even worth it dude. People will continue to say Gohan's a bad fighter even though he's used strategy several times this arc, and has been treated as a competent fighter besides for the fact that he gets overconfident.

I don’t recall them every saying Gohan couldn’t counter IT because he was overconfident. And again, why do Gohan has to be at full power to counter IT? Freeza didn’t need to go golden, yet Gohan needed his full power? Freeza didn’t even overpower IT, he countered by watching his blind spots and predicting the attacks.

And, “he's used strategy several times this arc”. Twice. One they rewrote how Botoma’s power worked and it wasn’t even as good as what Goku and Vegeta did, and his strategy for the U10 was tanked and punch.

If this is good strategy, then the standards for Gohan are really lackluster.

Gohan is a genius who somehow manages to make an ass out of himself every time he fights lol

Its like they tell us he is smart but we just have to take their word because he never shows it beyond basics anyone could point out.