Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

If you're taking Super into account, the base saiyans are probably too strong.

Are they? The gap is bigger than the gap between Vegeta and KK Goku.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, #20 was questionable as being as strong as expected (strong enough to whoop SS Trunks from 3 years back), while #19 wasn't even considered. That implies something like: Artificial Humans (expected) >= Android #20 post >/>> Android #19 post IMO. There was also Android #20 being faster than Vegeta thought which could place him not miles below Vegeta (IMO).

I don't think #20 was questionable because of his feats, I think it's more because "hey, weren't you supposed to be super strong and kill all of us?". As for his speed, I don't think he was faster than Vegeta, Vegeta just underestimated him and was caught by surprise.

I also agree with the filler, I just personally feel if Krillin is stronger than Tenshinhan for the rest of the series, he might as well be here also. I usually tend to place Krillin around 320,000 personally, based on Vegeta's comment about his power.

I believe that thanks to Saichouro's power up, Kuririn had much greater gains than Tenshinha after they both trained, while Tenshinhan was held back because his dormant powers weren't released.

It's more my opinion I suppose. There is Vegeta saying Gohan is trash which, and Vegeta having to be brought fa~ar beyond his natural limits just to match Goku.

Vegeta wasn't said to be far beyond his limits, just beyond his limits. Which doesn't mean that he got extremely stronger. As for how he compares to Gohan, I explain below.

If you're taking Super into account, the base saiyans are probably too strong.

What about Super?

Speaking of which, your gaps between the base saiyans in the Buu arc are ridiculously tiny. Vegeta said that the gap between him and Goku hadn't really changed since Cell, and he had to have his dormant power brought out beyond its limits just to match Goku in the same form. You also have Dabra as stronger than pre-Majin Vegeta, even though Vegeta said he could end Dabra, and Dabra seemed somewhat inferior in strength to even SS2 Gohan.

My reasoning for these gaps is because Vegeta was sure to be stronger than SS2 Gohan, but he couldn't tell what their difference would be if Gohan was to get angry. After Babidi, Piccolo said that Vegeta was perhaps stronger than Gohan from the Cell Games, and Vegeta was equal with Goku, who was said to be stronger than Gohan from the Cell Games. So, SS2 Gohan & Vegeta are stronger, but not much stronger than Enraged SS2 Gohan. You are right about Dabra though, I should lower him, and maybe I should lower Cell as well. I suppose I should also make the gap between SS2 & Enraged SS2 Gohan bigger. I'll make the changes later.

[supercat]

How far do you feel the base Saiyans were from Frieza by the time of Beerus' arrival? I personally think it was a decent enough amount to have elicited a remark from the destroyer. If I had to throw out an educated guess, I'd say Goku and Vegeta in the Buu arc were each at around 60,000,000 or so.

For me, Episode 6 of Super was basically enough to confirm that Goku, along with the other Super Saiyans gained power in the form of enhanced transformations, and once a new form was reached, previous forms only saw minimal improvement.

[ZombieVito]

Is it even possible to have them that low in the Buu arc? The minimum I have seen them is at 75 million and some gaps in the Cell arc were to small for me.

I still think having them at 100 million is fine.

[Saiga]

80 million is where I'm most comfortable in the Boo arc. I feel like my 7 year timeskip was too large in terms of gains, but my Android - Cell gaps were also probably too small so I think it'll even out if I ever update my list.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Base Goku's last recorded power level is 300k, and there's no proof he ever increased his base power after Namek, only his Super Saiyan forms.

Base Boo arc Goku ~ 300k

It fits with Beers confirming Base Goku never surpassed First form Freeza.

[Kaboom]

My sweet spot for base Goku's power in the Boo arc has been around 80 million for a long time. Any lower than that and I'd kind of have to "cut corners" with things, so to speak, during all the power leapfrogging during the Cell arc. Give him some very conservative training gains over the next few years, and he's around 90 million at the start of Battle of Gods. That's distant enough from Freeza's 120 million that, under most circumstances and without extra tricks that Beerus wouldn't know about, Freeza would beat Goku.

Base Goku's last recorded power level is 300k, and there's no proof he ever increased his base power after Namek, only his Super Saiyan forms.
Base Boo arc Goku ~ 300k
It fits with Beers confirming Base Goku never surpassed First form Freeza.

I'm... not sure if you're serious or not.

Goku's power against Freeza was 3 million, not 300 thousand, which is an old mis-translation. All official info treats the Super Saiyan forms as multipliers of base power, so with how drastically Goku increased his power during and after the Androids and Cell arc, he's going to be substantially stronger than that 3 million level against Freeza.

[ZombieVito]

I guess I should lower them to 90 million. I'll post my revised list later in the week.

[supercat]

Great responses. So it looks anywhere in the realm of 70 million - 90 million is where you all have him. Anything under 80 million seems like a far enough gap to trigger a wise remark from Beerus, in my opinion.

I don't know, I felt like the vast majority of the training done during the Cell arc was primarily geared towards unlocking different variations of Super Saiyan, and gaining power through ascension, more so than just beefing up through Zenkais.

With numerous Toei films and even episodes outright embarrassing Frieza, I could see why some people have a hard time accepting the fact that he still has the edge on the base Saiyans in terms of raw power. That said, assuming a large portion of Goku's increases were seen through the different multipliers yielded by his transformations, obtaining a 50x increase to a whopping 3 million seems like quite a big jump even after seven plus years have elapsed.

[Saiga]

I'd agree with that, but Goku eventually returned to Super Saiyan for his fight with Cell, and that was his biggest powerup of the arc. So I'd say the transformation multipliers and all that meant very little in comparison to his general training gains.

[ZombieVito]

What gap do you guys have for Goku and Vegeta in the CG?

[dbgtFO]

Always just had it at Vegeta being 75% Goku, as it's right in the middle between 50 and 100.

[ahill1]

Vegeta is 60% of Goku

[Doctor.]

Can I have a look at your GT & movie lists?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Can I have a look at your GT & movie lists?

Are you asking anyone reading this or the person above you?

[Doctor.]

Can I have a look at your GT & movie lists?

Are you asking anyone reading this or the person above you?

Anyone, should have specified better. My memory on GT and the movies isn't so good, and I don't really want to rewatch them all before making my list.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Anyone, should have specified better. My memory on GT and the movies isn't so good, and I don't really want to rewatch them all before making my list.

Dragon Ball GT
Dragon Ball Z Movies*

*

• Movie 1 is right before 'Arrival of Raditz'
• Movie 2 is incomplete
• Movie 3 is right before 'The Ginyu Force'
• Movie 4 is right before 'Battle with Freeza'
• Movie 5 is right after 'Battle with Freeza'
• Movie 6 is right before 'Arrival of the Androids'
• Movie 7 is right before 'Android #21, Cell'
• Movie 8 is right before '10 days peace
• Movie 9 is incomplete
• Movie 10 is right before '25th Tenkaichi Budokai'
• Movies 11, 12, 13, 14 are incomplete

What gap do you guys have for Goku and Vegeta in the CG?

Vegeta about 1.5x weaker than Goku.

Goku: 36
-50%: 18

Vegeta: 24

[Kaboom]

What gap do you guys have for Goku and Vegeta in the CG?

Vegeta being somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of Goku's power seems fine to me. That's enough of a difference that Goku could kick his ass pretty badly, and Cell could do it even worse.

Can I have a look at your GT & movie lists?

I don't have a serious GT list, but I keep a link to my movies list in my signature next to the series one.

[ahill1]

What do you guys think?

Piccolo Daimao ( young ) 200
Kuririn ( 23rd TB ) 180
Yamcha ( 23rd TB ) 166
Cyborg Tao 150
Piccolo Daimao ( old ) 150

[Doctor.]

Anyone, should have specified better. My memory on GT and the movies isn't so good, and I don't really want to rewatch them all before making my list.

Dragon Ball GT

Why such a big increase for the gang from Lood to M2? Did they receive a power-up that I'm forgetting?