Unpopular DB opinions

[kinisking]

He dragged Gohan into it. Gohan doesn't even like fighting. He most likely didn't object to it because he didn't want to be a party pooper.

[ABED]

He dragged Gohan into it. Gohan doesn't even like fighting. He most likely didn't object to it because he didn't want to be a party pooper.

Gohan was dragged into nothing. He was eager to help fight the cyborgs. He only got cold feet before Cell.

[kinisking]

He dragged Gohan into it. Gohan doesn't even like fighting. He most likely didn't object to it because he didn't want to be a party pooper.

Gohan was dragged into nothing. He was eager to help fight the cyborgs. He only got cold feet before Cell.

I'm pretty sure if Gohan could choose to fight the androids or kill Gero before he makes them he'd choose the latter. But Goku and Co didn't really give him much of a choice.

[ABED]

He dragged Gohan into it. Gohan doesn't even like fighting. He most likely didn't object to it because he didn't want to be a party pooper.

Gohan was dragged into nothing. He was eager to help fight the cyborgs. He only got cold feet before Cell.

I'm pretty sure if Gohan could choose to fight the androids or kill Gero before he makes them he'd choose the latter. But Goku and Co didn't really give him much of a choice.

Gohan doesn't want to kill anyone, if he does, it's in the heat of the moment. He also was shown to be eager to help out and fight.

[ekrolo2]

He didn't "drag" anyone into it. Everyone supported the idea because they're martial artists who desire a challenge. Bluma and Kuririn are the only characters who disagreed, the latter of which quickly changing his mind when he realized it would unite them briefly.

You may not agree with the actions of Dragon Team, but that's their characters through and through. It wouldn't benefit the narrative to suddenly alter their motivations. Their wishes are supported through the warning Future Trunks provides. They are perfectly at peace with their decisions possibly leading to death. Let's also consider Future Trunks was surprised by this so that wasn't written for the sake of it. It's acknowledged.

Additionally, the Room of Spirit and Time was treated as a last resort, in context. It's potentially irresponsible to "waste" their days on it when ignorant of what they truly must account for. Its usage in the story is not only reasonable but it clashes with precedence. Dragon Team has always preferred to gain strength on their own unless forced to instantly become stronger. It's best not to forget precedence continues to exists where training in peacetime has rarely led to significant improvement. The "new" conflicts are necessary for their needs. The greatest advancements are achieved after experiencing overwhelming odds. They fancy the journey, not the destination.

I never said anyone was dragged into it nor did I accuse any of the characters of being out of character, I am merely calling them what they are: shit bags, all of em.

You can be a Saiyan or martial artists all you like but when you not only endanger the planet for your own entertainment and then don't even do it a good job of working for the alternative, you are a shit big.

Goku's moronic stance on Gero wasn't properly considered in the least. As I said before: ask Shenron what Gero is like and if you still want to train knowing full well he's an evil bastard long before the Android's appear, by all means, do so, but do it right. They do NOT do it right at all! Gohan wasn't even made into a Super Saiyan for crying out loud! Knowing that everyone will get slaughtered by enemies apparently many, many times stronger than Freeza should probably clue someone in that making the kid who's got a penchant for massive powers up would probably benefit from stacking Super Saiyan on top of it.

Hell, they don't even need to use the ROSAT extensively, even say taking a month each inside as an extra precaution doesn't seem like much of a waste as they would leave almost 2 full year left over for later should they need them.

This is NOT, I repeat NOT me bitching about people being out of character or doing stupid things for the sake of the plot, this is me accepting all of their established motivations & personalities and explaining why I think they're total pricks in spite of accepting them.

[ABED]

Did you find it interesting or are you more concerned with the morality of a fictional character?

[ekrolo2]

Did you find it interesting or are you more concerned with the morality of a fictional character?

I find myself interested, concerned and infuriated by the morality of these guys which is quite refreshing given the Shonen genre's homogeny when it comes to not only protagonists & the cast.

So yeah, this is both a positive and a negative of the writing

[Doctor.]

Did you find it interesting or are you more concerned with the morality of a fictional character?

I find myself interested, concerned and infuriated by the morality of these guys which is quite refreshing given the Shonen genre's homogeny when it comes to not only protagonists & the cast.

So yeah, this is both a positive and a negative of the writing

Did you find it rewarding when Goku decided to stay dead at the end of the arc?

[ekrolo2]

Did you find it interesting or are you more concerned with the morality of a fictional character?

I find myself interested, concerned and infuriated by the morality of these guys which is quite refreshing given the Shonen genre's homogeny when it comes to not only protagonists & the cast.

So yeah, this is both a positive and a negative of the writing

Did you find it rewarding when Goku decided to stay dead at the end of the arc?

Ignoring the Boo arc? I think it's a good comeuppance for him, it all more or less starts and with some help escalates thanks to that point through him and his actions so him dying because of said escalation works as a payoff. I even like that he's aware of this being a karmic justice at the end and accepts death as part of that. Then later stuff kind of ruins this....

[kinisking]

Gohan was dragged into nothing. He was eager to help fight the cyborgs. He only got cold feet before Cell.

I'm pretty sure if Gohan could choose to fight the androids or kill Gero before he makes them he'd choose the latter. But Goku and Co didn't really give him much of a choice.

Gohan doesn't want to kill anyone, if he does, it's in the heat of the moment. He also was shown to be eager to help out and fight.

Yeah I remember him being eager to fight but considering his character he most likely would have preferred not to if he could have helped it. It's just that he was basically forced into it at the time. Gohan not wanting to kill anyone is debatable considering he was perfectly fine with killing Majin boo. And it's not like that was during a fit of rage.

[ABED]

He wasn't forced into anything. Gohan at any point could've said "no".

Gohan not wanting to kill anyone is debatable considering he was perfectly fine with killing Majin boo. And it's not like that was during a fit of rage.

Different circumstances as they were in the midst of a crisis with Buu.

I wouldn't look to even heroes on TV for ethical guidence since good stories require conflict and drama. Happiness and well adjusted, morally upstanding people who don't do anything wrong don't typically make for great stories.

[kinisking]

He wasn't forced into anything. Gohan at any point could've said "no".

Gohan not wanting to kill anyone is debatable considering he was perfectly fine with killing Majin boo. And it's not like that was during a fit of rage.

Different circumstances as they were in the midst of a crisis with Buu.

He could've said no, but he's not really the type of character to get in the way of other people's interests.

You're right actually. Gohan probably wouldn't want to have killed him. But I still think he would have preferred an alternative means of getting rid of the androids rather than spending the next 3 years of his life training for them.

[ABED]

He wasn't forced into anything. Gohan at any point could've said "no".

Gohan not wanting to kill anyone is debatable considering he was perfectly fine with killing Majin boo. And it's not like that was during a fit of rage.

Different circumstances as they were in the midst of a crisis with Buu.

He could've said no, but he's not really the type of character to get in the way of other people's interests.

You're right actually. Gohan probably wouldn't want to have killed him. But I still think he would have preferred an alternative means of getting rid of the androids rather than spending the next 3 years of his life training for them.

What you think has been proven wrong. Gohan wanted to help out and didn't put up a fight and he was never shown having any reservations that I can recall.

Pre-emptively killing Dr. Gero is premeditated murder. We don't know exactly when he became a cyborg, but until that time, he's a regular human and subject to normal justice.

[ekrolo2]

Pre-emptively killing Dr. Gero is premeditated murder.

True but they don't really consider it well enough. We know the RRA were an evil organization and that Gero was apparently hot stuff there but the characters have Shenron to give them a proper answer to gauge Gero's personality & history.

[ABED]

Pre-emptively killing Dr. Gero is premeditated murder.

True but they don't really consider it well enough. We know the RRA were an evil organization and that Gero was apparently hot stuff there but the characters have Shenron to give them a proper answer to gauge Gero's personality & history.

Whether he's good or bad isn't the issue. If he's a normal human, he can be dealt with via human justice. I know that sounds odd, but what I'm getting at is whether Gero's evil or not isn't a question they need to answer. Murder isn't justified. However, if this were real, I'd imagine in cases where you can't lock up the bad guy because they are too powerful, then "vigilante justice" would be appropriate.

[kinisking]

He wasn't forced into anything. Gohan at any point could've said "no".

Different circumstances as they were in the midst of a crisis with Buu.

He could've said no, but he's not really the type of character to get in the way of other people's interests.

You're right actually. Gohan probably wouldn't want to have killed him. But I still think he would have preferred an alternative means of getting rid of the androids rather than spending the next 3 years of his life training for them.

What you think has been proven wrong. Gohan wanted to help out and didn't put up a fight and he was never shown having any reservations that I can recall.

Pre-emptively killing Dr. Gero is premeditated murder. We don't know exactly when he became a cyborg, but until that time, he's a regular human and subject to normal justice.

He wasnt shown having any reservations, but knowing his character he would have preferred to take out the androids through alternative means rather than training to fight them. Just because he didn't outwardly say he was against fighting them like Bulma and Krillin didn't mean he wasn't against it. It's well within Gohan's character at the time to have let them do their own thing even if it was to his detriment. Once fighting them became his only option, then he was eager to fight them of course. He always wants to help.

I already changed my stance on him wanting to murderer Gero. That was stupid of me . But they'res other ways of stopping the androids that doesn't involve killing him .

[ABED]

I don't think his character is inconsistent when he wanted to train to help out. And fighting wasn't his only option, he could've said he didn't want to train.

It's well within Gohan's character at the time to have let them do their own thing even if it was to his detriment.

Could you given an example of a time where he did something similar?

[Nejishiki]

I never said anyone was dragged into it nor did I accuse any of the characters of being out of character, I am merely calling them what they are: shit bags, all of em.

You can be a Saiyan or martial artists all you like but when you not only endanger the planet for your own entertainment and then don't even do it a good job of working for the alternative, you are a shit big.

Goku's moronic stance on Gero wasn't properly considered in the least. As I said before: ask Shenron what Gero is like and if you still want to train knowing full well he's an evil bastard long before the Android's appear, by all means, do so, but do it right. They do NOT do it right at all! Gohan wasn't even made into a Super Saiyan for crying out loud! Knowing that everyone will get slaughtered by enemies apparently many, many times stronger than Freeza should probably clue someone in that making the kid who's got a penchant for massive powers up would probably benefit from stacking Super Saiyan on top of it.

Hell, they don't even need to use the ROSAT extensively, even say taking a month each inside as an extra precaution doesn't seem like much of a waste as they would leave almost 2 full year left over for later should they need them.

This is NOT, I repeat NOT me bitching about people being out of character or doing stupid things for the sake of the plot, this is me accepting all of their established motivations & personalities and explaining why I think they're total pricks in spite of accepting them.

That's extreme language used for a group of characters so forgive me if I'm reading vitriol from that statement but that's what I'm perceiving. There seems to be an image of the characters I'm not sharing. I'm not attempting to get into pedantry, but "shit bags" and "Dragon Team" don't seem synonymous to me. Just as one series resolves all issues through card battles, this series resolves all issues through martial arts.

It's fairly standard to expect these characters to fight it out for the challenge and pride of it. It's a product of prior martial arts stories that accomplish similar marks and my enjoyment derives from that. That's not to say I don't have my issues with this story or others in the genre. It's possible to nonsensically progress the narrative by misusing tropes of the product. I'm just not particularly awaiting foreign resolutions befitting of a different series. In context and tone, the story wasn't egregious with its motivations there. That's a conversation for parts and sections of the Red Ribbon fall and Freeza encounter, for a brief example.

As for their behavior, it's not done in a way that I read as malicious intent. I reserve those terms for characters of a separate ilk. It could be my penchant for placing value in how the story ultimately portrays the light of its actions, not that I've been free of liberal analysis.

At any rate, getting the meta aspect out of the way, the secondary context is tossed aside: When push comes to shove and the "fun" of the fight ends, the warriors immediately take action to address the dangers spread from their seemingly contained exchanges. It's flawed of them, sure. But that absolves any notion that consequences are never considered. It's simply not their main concern unless something is directly threatened. They've consistently opted to be pragmatic when the event calls for it. Perhaps it's not done at the audience's convenience, but they appropriately recognize the need when it arises. The subject is tackled as a talking point of dissatisfaction when help is required.

The only character interested in calling Shen Long is Bluma, who is promptly talked out of it and annoyed by the situation. They considered their options and deliberately chose their personal alternative as a group. That's fair play if they desired the assistance of the Dragon Balls and never followed up on the idea. However, they considered the risks and chose to train themselves for a challenge.

They likely believed future knowledge would spare them alone. As mentioned, "quick fixes" for improvement are only considered after they understand the scale of what they were up against. Some individuals are stubborn like that. It was treated as something that could be easily prepared for from the beginning. The stance changed only after their advantage shifted and the antagonists had to be stopped now rather than later.

[rereboy]

... for not killing Gero ...

It's morally dubious to kill a man for crimes he has yet to commit. But he could have stopped Gero.

I don't buy that as a good excuse, they easily could've summoned Shenron and asked him for information on who and what Gero has done so they can have a properly informed opinion of how right/wrong it is to kill him

You are approaching the issue the wrong way. It's not an issue of killing him, it's an issue of stopping him. They don't need to kill him to destroy his lab and his inventions and it's not that hard to figure out a way to monitor him after that even if he wasn't sent to jail.

Once you link the issue to killing him you are entering a moral realm with unnecessary moral questions and, frankly, none of the gang are assassins for the greatest good so, even if a certain solution fits your moral compass, it doesn't have to fit theirs.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I think Zamasu is the most poorly written villain in the entire DB Franchise. The fact that his motives make 0 logical sense makes his story worse than no story at all. Literally the ONLY good thing is Goku Black in the anime since his personality is distinct from not only Future Zamasu but also Goku Black in the manga.

Also I realize Goku Black IS Zamasu and that made me sad to no end when they ruined his back story. Still cool though.