The black character's lips

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:31 pm

Deep Thought wrote:
rereboy wrote: I believe that there was no ill intent of the author in the design. He was just doing his goofy designs like he always does.

The reason why you find it racist is because of the past and everything that belongs to history and you know of.

If the author had no ill intent, and no racist intentions, can we really say that his designs are racists? Or are we just being influenced by what we know that has happened in history regarding this subject?

If the author really had ill intent, racist intent, then it his racist. If not, and we find it racist, I believe that we are just being influenced by what we know, regardless of having anything to do with the subject.
Hm, I guess Akira Toriyama, in all the 50 or so years of his life, has never seen a black person. Funny, huh?

Also, if a white American did this, then he'd be driven out of America and you know it.

This:

rereboy wrote:I don`t deny that he was problably influenced by it. It is too much alike to be coincidence. Its just that I believe that his intentions are completely different. I think he was just influenced by the design of those things and nothing else. Purely esthetics.

If I'm wrong, then it is racism.

You don`t have to agree with me, of course.

The reasons why I don`t believe there was racism by the author is because of the various definitions of racism. To point out a few:

"Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another.
Racism is the belief that genetic variations among human beings, especially those pertaining to skin color, serve as the basis for the superiority of one race over the other. It is grounded in the prejudice and belief of racial hierarchy and justified with pseudoscientific claims."

When I think of the so called black charathers in Dragon Ball and look up the various definitions of racism, I just don`t see it... One is bad, one is good, one is a general in a evil army, one is a servant of god... But I guess its a matter of opinion.

Oh, btw, I`ve never been to america or plan to so I can`t comment on how things work there.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:52 pm

This topic makes me pretty mad. I don't know why the freak people PMS over this crap...it's not a big deal.

Now, I'm only half-black, but I was talking to my dad(A full black...in case you didn't know) and he said he was even a little offended.

Here's the dealio, people...and I"m gonna say this based on all the 100+ black men I've met in my life...

THEY GOT BIG LIPS, YO.

Nobody complained when that British kid had wanked up teeth in Fairly Oddparents.(The one who hated the colour Pink)

------------

EDIT: I've got a question...is Popo even human?

XanatosVanBadass · Post by **XanatosVanBadass** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:57 pm

Its not really that big a deal. I just wish people would simply call a spade a spade instead of getting all butthurt and defensive over it. I mean, Mr. Popo is based on a racist characature, get over it.

B · Post by B » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:05 am

HEY GUYS I'M A SOCIALLY PRIVILEDGED UPPER MIDDLE CLASS TWELVE-YEAR-OLD WHITE KID LIVING IN A GATED COMMUNITY IN LOS ANGELES

DON'T YOU THINK IT'S JUST AWFUL HOW DRAGON BALL PORTRAYED TWO BLACKS MORE THAN A DECADE AGO

IF YOU WANNA TALK MORE ABOUT IT, HIT ME UP ON XBOX LIVE. MOM GROUNDED ME FROM CHILLING WITH MY HOMIES, BUT SHE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MY E-HOMIES, FO' REEEEEAL

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:11 am

Big Momma wrote:Nobody complained when that British kid had wanked up teeth in Fairly Oddparents.(The one who hated the colour Pink)

I did, half-assedly anyway. The teeth were the least of my concerns though.

EDIT: I've got a question...is Popo even human?

He isn't. He comes from the afterlife, according to one of the guides.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:20 am

Big Momma wrote: EDIT: I've got a question...is Popo even human?

No, not at all. The story implies that he's a magical being, not a weird looking regular human. Meanwhile the daizenshuu claims he's a deity in that he's born in the afterlife (like Oni, devils, angels, Kaios and Kaioshins) and sent to Earth to act as its Kami's assistant.

Do I think Toriyama stereotypes black people? Hell yes. Even Dragonball is technically a gag-manga, so he stereotypes everybody. Especially Japanese people. Does that make it better? Yes and no. It's still very racist, but it's clearly parody, so it's a "different kind of racism" so to speak. As the old saying goes, how do you know the joke's not too offensive? If someone laughs.

Off-topic: Speaking of racist, anybody reading Eyeshield 21? He's very racist towards black people in that he keeps stressing the black guy's superior skills come from the innate physical ability of black people. Having one character think it is one thing; it would imply that one character is racist. But having it be the general concensus of every character (supported by the omniscient narrator, I might add) is starting to make even me uncomfortable.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:22 am

I just read the technical definition of racism that was posted a little bit ago.

We need a correction guys.

We aren't talking about Toriyama's actions being racist...

...they're just stereotypical!

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:33 am

My question is why his later works continued to define black people in that manner when he had plenty of time to get the message/point.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:00 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:My question is why his later works continued to define black people in that manner when he had plenty of time to get the message/point.

He forgot it bothers people.

Nah, I'm just kidding. I just don't think he cares.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:38 am

I don't really think there's any way to argue that his representations of black people are racist because they don't imply any kind of inferiority and don't make them look any more ridiculous than any of the other characters. Sure they may be based somewhat on an old stereotypical image, but it was probably more due to unfamiliarity and a lack of cultural sensitivity in Japan.

I don't see why people don't point out the blatantly stereotypical representations of other races within the Dragonworld such as Indians, Native Americans and even the Japanese (check the narrow eyes and flat nose on Yajirobe, a character obviously derived from Japanese stereotypes, and even early Kuririn to a certain extent.) If Toriyama discriminates, he hits all groups pretty hard and well, that's not really discriminating at all now is it?

It annoys me that people only hone in on the black characters because of the powerful history of racism against blacks in America. For a society like ours at the present, with the knowledge and experience we have, these kinds of representations are absolutely harmless.

At least Toriyama has an obvious interest in other cultures and tries to include them to create variety and a world with greater scope. There are plenty of mangas out there that completely ignore the existence of other races. Would anyone want Toriyama to just draw his black characters like his white characters with darker skin? I know I wouldn't, it would just be boring and ignorant. It's not like acknowledging that there's a difference of appearance among races is racist.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:46 am

You must not be black, for only someone that is not would make such statements.

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:48 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:You must not be black, for only someone that is not would make such statements.

I'm sorry, explain to me exactly what I said that would imply that.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:00 am

You know, speaking of which...
Would you consider these depictions of black people to be "racist" in any way?

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:58 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:You must not be black, for only someone that is not would make such statements.

Bitch, he let Popo beat Goku. The end.

The Time Traveller · Post by **The Time Traveller** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:33 am

Big Momma wrote:EDIT: I've got a question...is Popo even human?

People always forget about the ears, Popo has pointy ears!

So, he's not human.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:35 am

The Time Traveller wrote:
Big Momma wrote:EDIT: I've got a question...is Popo even human?
People always forget about the ears, Popo has pointy ears!

So, he's not human.

The ears make the man.....

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:38 am

jda95 wrote:
The Time Traveller wrote:
Big Momma wrote:EDIT: I've got a question...is Popo even human?
People always forget about the ears, Popo has pointy ears!

So, he's not human.
The ears make the man.....

That's right, beacuse the sword doesn't.

Oh, Dub Trunks...

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:40 am

On a related note, Kuririn's lack of a nose offends me. Why doesn't Viz edit one on there?

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:06 am

Big Momma wrote:I just read the technical definition of racism that was posted a little bit ago.

We need a correction guys.

We aren't talking about Toriyama's actions being racist...

...they're just stereotypical!

I think we could all agree with this.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:00 am

Saiyan-Professor wrote:My question is why his later works continued to define black people in that manner when he had plenty of time to get the message/point.

What later works? Japan only started caring about being politically correct...hell a few years ago,and even then only slightly.