What are your thoughts on how the SSJ levels work?
-
Onikage725
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1502
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:00 pm
- Location: Outer Heaven
- Contact:
-
Xyex
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4978
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:15 am
- Location: The 7th moon of nowhere, right-side of forever
- Contact:
Wow, this topic has bounced every which way. XD Guess I've got a lot of typing to do~ My take on the levels:
SSJ: The way I see it SSJ isn't a release of latent power as much as it is a natural amplification of existing power.
SSJU and SSJU2: I see the SSJU and SSJU2 forms as the SSJ equivalent of 100% Freeza. Drawing out extra, hidden, latent power while in the SSJ state that the form is not capable of controlling.
MSSJ: The 'mastered' SSJ form, while not a form, is an improvement of the standard SSJ form. It's able to draw upon some of the same reserves that the SSJU forms draw upon but due to reduced strain and better adjustment to the form the extra energy is manageable and doesn't result in the bulking up you'd get otherwise.
SSJ2 and SSJ3: SSJ2 and SSJ3 are just further ways of drawing upon the reserves of power that the SSJU forms tap into. But as they are also transformations designed to allow access to this reserve power they are more able to handle it than the SSJU forms are.
SSJ1 only needs two components to be reached. A Saiya-jin of sufficient power to survive the transformation and the rage to unleash the transformation. SSJ2 and SSJ3, IMO, only require reaching a certain peak of power. Once your power exceeds a certain level in the previous state unleashing all of that power will cause the body to ascend to the next level.
For Gohan that was done when his anger boiled over and forced him to power up to his maximum at the Cell Games, but otherwise it's perfectly possible to do it just through a natural power-up. The reason why Goku and Gotenks reached SSJ3 while Vegeta did not, even though he was as strong or stronger than SSJ2 Goku post Majin charm, is durability. Dead Goku and fused Gotenks have more durable bodies than a normal individual would have (what with being dead and fused) so the power threshold for reaching SSJ3 was lower for them than for a normal living person. Which is also why Goku had so much issue with SSJ3 while alive.
The way I seen it is more like:
SSJ: 50x base
MSSJ: 100x base
SSJ2: 2x MSSJ
SSJ3: 1.5x SSJ2
With obtaining MSSJ being a requirement to obtaining SSJ2. And as for Golden Oozaru/SSJ4, I peg both as 500x base and being independent of the SSJ forms.
mister yummy: Believe me, I understand not liking the huge powers you get with multipliers like this. I'm not a big fan of them either, but in the end it's rather unavoidable because anything else demands making things far more complicated than they have any reason to be. So I just do what I can to keep the levels low.
Such as having SSJ Goku vs. Freeza at 100 million, MSSJ Goku at the Cell Games at 600 million, and SSJ3 Goku in the Buu Saga at 4.5 billion.
SSJ: The way I see it SSJ isn't a release of latent power as much as it is a natural amplification of existing power.
SSJU and SSJU2: I see the SSJU and SSJU2 forms as the SSJ equivalent of 100% Freeza. Drawing out extra, hidden, latent power while in the SSJ state that the form is not capable of controlling.
MSSJ: The 'mastered' SSJ form, while not a form, is an improvement of the standard SSJ form. It's able to draw upon some of the same reserves that the SSJU forms draw upon but due to reduced strain and better adjustment to the form the extra energy is manageable and doesn't result in the bulking up you'd get otherwise.
SSJ2 and SSJ3: SSJ2 and SSJ3 are just further ways of drawing upon the reserves of power that the SSJU forms tap into. But as they are also transformations designed to allow access to this reserve power they are more able to handle it than the SSJU forms are.
SSJ1 only needs two components to be reached. A Saiya-jin of sufficient power to survive the transformation and the rage to unleash the transformation. SSJ2 and SSJ3, IMO, only require reaching a certain peak of power. Once your power exceeds a certain level in the previous state unleashing all of that power will cause the body to ascend to the next level.
For Gohan that was done when his anger boiled over and forced him to power up to his maximum at the Cell Games, but otherwise it's perfectly possible to do it just through a natural power-up. The reason why Goku and Gotenks reached SSJ3 while Vegeta did not, even though he was as strong or stronger than SSJ2 Goku post Majin charm, is durability. Dead Goku and fused Gotenks have more durable bodies than a normal individual would have (what with being dead and fused) so the power threshold for reaching SSJ3 was lower for them than for a normal living person. Which is also why Goku had so much issue with SSJ3 while alive.
Seriously? Why would SSJ3 be 4x stronger than SSJ2 when SSJ2 is only 2x stronger than SSJ1? Huh. What guide is this, anyway?What the guide literally says is;
SSJ: x50 base strength
SSJ2: Double SSJ strength
SSJ3: 4 times SSJ2 strength.
The way I seen it is more like:
SSJ: 50x base
MSSJ: 100x base
SSJ2: 2x MSSJ
SSJ3: 1.5x SSJ2
With obtaining MSSJ being a requirement to obtaining SSJ2. And as for Golden Oozaru/SSJ4, I peg both as 500x base and being independent of the SSJ forms.
mister yummy: Believe me, I understand not liking the huge powers you get with multipliers like this. I'm not a big fan of them either, but in the end it's rather unavoidable because anything else demands making things far more complicated than they have any reason to be. So I just do what I can to keep the levels low.
Such as having SSJ Goku vs. Freeza at 100 million, MSSJ Goku at the Cell Games at 600 million, and SSJ3 Goku in the Buu Saga at 4.5 billion.
Avys ~ DA account ~ Fanfiction ~ Chat Quotes
<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.
<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.
Why? No idea. The guide is the Super Exciting Story Guide, though.Xyex wrote:Seriously? Why would SSJ3 be 4x stronger than SSJ2 when SSJ2 is only 2x stronger than SSJ1? Huh. What guide is this, anyway?
http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.p ... 680#243680
Personally, I think x2 for SSJ2 just seems pretty small. But I'm okay with SSJ3 being more. It's visibly a more dramatic transformation and it has a lot of drawbacks to balance it out.Herms wrote:The second part deals with Goku’s power-ups: Super Saiyan, the Super God Water, and the potara. Again, mostly all stuff we’ve heard before, recounting the legend of the Super Saiyan and all that. It says Super Saiyan 3 has a calmer heart than Super Saiyan 2, which does seem true. It gives the same old thing about Super Saiyan making Goku fifty times stronger than his normal form. It also says that Super Saiyan 2 has two times the strength of regular Super Saiyan, and that Super Saiyan 3 has four times the strength of Super Saiyan 2, so that’s something new.