DBZ just isn't the same...

[JulieYBM]

I don't understand why everyone hates the FUNi music. I think it works quite well, especially when Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 and he goes ape shit. I don't wan to hear nice music going on in the background (if you can say that; it seemed quite loud and obtrusive to me), I want music that shows some ass kicking and serious shit is about to go down.

Well, the thing is that that is not the vision the creators had. The vision they had--musically--is what you see in the original Japanese version, the use of that vocal song.

[obiwan23s]

I don't understand why everyone hates the FUNi music. I think it works quite well, especially when Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 and he goes ape shit. I don't wan to hear nice music going on in the background (if you can say that; it seemed quite loud and obtrusive to me), I want music that shows some ass kicking and serious shit is about to go down.

Who gives a god damn whether or not the music sounds "cool" and more like "ass kicking serious shit"? That couldn't be further away from the point. Would you dub music knobslobbers be okay with FUNimation redubbing every instance of the names Goku and Gohan with "Tom" and "Jerry"? No, I don't think you would. And if you disagree with blatant name changes, take a look out your window. See that? It's your dub music argument flying the fuck away.

[VegettoEX]

Who gives a god damn whether or not the music sounds "cool" and more like "ass kicking serious shit"? That couldn't be further away from the point. Would you dub music knobslobbers be okay with FUNimation redubbing every instance of the names Goku and Gohan with "Tom" and "Jerry"? No, I don't think you would. And if you disagree with blatant name changes, take a look out your window. See that? It's your dub music argument flying the fuck away.

Absolutely unacceptable response and attitude on this forum. Try again.

[Gozar]

There's something amazingly hilarious (ironic?) about this statement, but whatever .

Hey, I outright said both sides give themselves bad names. Each side has their share of arrogant asses. Each side has people who go about things respectfully. And each side had people who are a little of both.

That's a fair point that "first" doesn't inherently mean "better".

However, let's also be brutally honest and fair: one came first, was used almost entirely without deviation throughout the rest of the world over the course of several decades, and succeeded on its own merits without further qualification.

What was it? Right, the original Japanese score.

I hate to sound like a broken record (I've said this so many times, and I've seen plenty of other people picking up the same torch), but in the global scale of things, FUNimation's replaced musical score is a minor curiosity... AT BEST. That's flippin' FANTASTIC that you like it (and Gozar, I know and recognize that you personally have said you like the Japanese score, so this isn't necessarily a response to just you), but look at it from the bigger perspective, folks.

You're right. You make a very good point. In the long run, the English score is just a blip on the worldwide radar. Looking back, the change wasn't really needed in the least. But what I'm trying to get across here is that when someone is knowledgeable of both versions and makes an informed and un-ignorant decision on this subject. I don't believe their fandom needs to be viewed any differently.

[laserkid]

You know, I don't like the dub music very much. I said so myself earlier this thread and got schooled by Mike for commenting on the same thing a second time. xD

But I do have to agree with Gozar to a certain degree on this one. While I may not want to risk video quality for the dub score on the Dragon Boxes, there is a definite asinine side to those who don't like the Falconer score.

Rancid Squirrel Meat? Seriously?

I mean I don't like it either, but is it REALLY necessary to go THAT over the top?

It's one thing to say you don't like it and to detail why. It's another whole world to go on throwing rather unpleasant comparisons into the mix.

[Raki]

I don't understand why everyone hates the FUNi music. I think it works quite well, especially when Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 and he goes ape shit. I don't wan to hear nice music going on in the background (if you can say that; it seemed quite loud and obtrusive to me), I want music that shows some ass kicking and serious shit is about to go down.

Dragonball is a martial arts show. But that doesn't need we need insane rock/rap music to play in the background.

[Gozar]

I've got another point I'd like to bring up. DragonBall Kai. If someone were to say that they like Kai's score the best and believe that Kai's more modern Shonen Anime feel is more suited for the DB Franchise than Kikuchi's score. Would that be treated as poorly as people who think Faulconer's score is better suited? Now I realize that Kai's score was made specifically for Kai, a completely new product. Said product is meant to modernize DragonBall. HOWEVER, at this point in time the Z Dub is no longer limited to just the Dub Music. We've got the JP Music with Z and all the Dub Music is is essentially an alternate version. Not hurting anything and not preventing anyone from enjoying the Dub with the original score.

[ect5150]

While I may not want to risk video quality for the dub score on the Dragon Boxes, there is a definite asinine side to those who don't like the Falconer score.

No more than those who don't like the original Japanese score, though.

[laserkid]

Didn't say otherwise did I? I'm just backing the valid point I saw made.

Ultimatly, both sides should really chill out a bit.

[verto]

I don't understand why everyone hates the FUNi music. I think it works quite well, especially when Gohan goes Super Saiyan 2 and he goes ape shit. I don't wan to hear nice music going on in the background (if you can say that; it seemed quite loud and obtrusive to me), I want music that shows some ass kicking and serious shit is about to go down.

Dragonball is a martial arts show. But that doesn't need we need insane rock/rap music to play in the background.

I didn't say I wanted "insane" rock or rap (which by the way I hate), I just think that the music that plays in the Japanese version is too light. Again, I'll use Gohan going SS2 for an example, he just watched all of his friends get hurt, and a peace loving android get killed for no real reason. He's pissed. To me the music calls for something heavier than spirit vs spirit (or whatever its called, I don't know so I apologize if I'm wrong). DBZ is a serious show, I think it calls for more serious music.

I don't have a problem with the Japanese score usually, but I don't understand why everyone loves that scene so much.

[.:PoetikaL:.]

Well, from someone who loves the Japanese version of that famous scene... The music seems fitting because the beginning where the bird chirps, represents (to me) the peacefulness that is in Gohan to leave. When that red slash and him emerging with SSJ2 comes around... I dunno but it just fits so well... and then the tears at his eyes at the end makes this song fit. Once again, just my opinion.

[A-dono]

I didn't say I wanted "insane" rock or rap (which by the way I hate), I just think that the music that plays in the Japanese version is too light. Again, I'll use Gohan going SS2 for an example, he just watched all of his friends get hurt, and a peace loving android get killed for no real reason. He's pissed. To me the music calls for something heavier than spirit vs spirit (or whatever its called, I don't know so I apologize if I'm wrong). DBZ is a serious show, I think it calls for more serious music.

I don't have a problem with the Japanese score usually, but I don't understand why everyone loves that scene so much.

It's one of the best scenes in the entire series, and it's precisely because of the music playing. It's a moment that has been over 150 episodes in the making; the moment Gohan finally unleashes his dormant power to its full extent, something that's been foreshadowed since the very first episode. 'Spirit vs. Spirit: Day of Destiny' is a very serious and emotional piece that reflects this event perfectly, IMO.

On the other hand, the dub had that monotonous synthesized crap playing in the background, and it completely ruined the entire scene for me.

I'm not going to try and change your opinion, nor am I saying it's wrong. To each his own.

But it really shouldn't be such a surprise that the original SSJ2 transformation scene is so well liked.

[.:PoetikaL:.]

The scene where Goku goes SSJ for the first time I actually enjoy both in Japanese and English. The Faulconer track actually fits for me because you get that intense feeling when the lightning comes down, and his hair flashing to yellow. Same with the Japanese, the music when it hits those high notes while Freeza is staring at him wondering what's going on. Then the music intensifies with Goku transforming... EPIC!

[A-dono]

The scene where Goku goes SSJ for the first time I actually enjoy both in Japanese and English. The Faulconer track actually fits for me because you get that intense feeling when the lightning comes down, and his hair flashing to yellow. Same with the Japanese, the music when it hits those high notes while Freeza is staring at him wondering what's going on. Then the music intensifies with Goku transforming... EPIC!

I feel the same way, also about Goku's SSJ3 transformation.

One of the (very) few Faulconer pieces I like is the one played during Goku's final attack on Freeza on Namek. That was also another scene I could actually watch in either the dub or original and not mind.

[Kaboom]

On the other hand, the dub had that monotonous synthesized crap playing in the background, and it completely ruined the entire scene for me.

Not to mention Gohan blabbering in his own head over the whole thing.

[Super Sonic]

Don't know if this is similar enough, but was thinking of this subject the other day while watching DucktaleZ 3. There were parts using the Faulconer music and tried to picture what it would've been like with the original Japanese background music or silence, and couldn't do it. Or since that was a parody, it doesn't count?

[A-dono]

On the other hand, the dub had that monotonous synthesized crap playing in the background, and it completely ruined the entire scene for me.

Not to mention Gohan blabbering in his own head over the whole thing.

Yeah, it's that thing about silence again. Just like the music, the characters themselves never seemed to shut up in the dub.

The scene with Mirai Trunks reminiscing about the alternate timeline (the song 'Mind Power Ki' played in the original version) was ruined in the same way.

Anyway, people will always have their preferences, but since every episode of Dragonball Z is available on DVD and the viewer has the option to choose between the Faulconer and Kikuchi scores, it really is pointless to argue about it. It's not like anyone's putting a gun to people's heads and forcing them to listen to a certain musical score.

Yay, fiftieth post.

[Onikage725]

There are way too many tidbits from individual people that caught my eye, so I'm just going to wing this without referring to anyone.

I don't know if this is a weird regional thing from my neck of the woods, but growing up, conversations of preference and conversations of quality weren't necessarily the same thing.

Quick example. I was channel-surfing today and came upon Citizen Toxie - The Toxic Avenger IV. My first thought was "dear lord, turn away." But then a different part of my brain turned on. That part that spurred my friends and I to drive to another state to see a theatrical screening of Troll 2 followed by Q&A and autographs. I actually find myself liking this movie.

Was it a good movie? Oh, hell no. It's atrocious.

Perhaps more appropriate a comparison would be my love of Ronin Warriors. I love Samurai Troopers as well. But I used to trek from my father's job to the local department store every day to catch the newest eps of Ronin Warriors. It was an obsession. I'm so used to the characters' voices and names and script that, in a casual sense, my brain tends to refer to those.

But Samurai Troopers is totally better. Ronin Warriors, for its time, isn't a terrible dubbing effort. However, comparing it to the original is like comparing a junior novel to the book (or movie) it's adapted from.

So here is where "deep love," as one person put it, for the dub score throws me a bit. For a little history, I started out with the dub. I saw the Pilaf Saga, jumped to the Saiyan Saga, etc. During the hiatus, when it looked like the series was facing cancellation, I got into the Japanese version through fansub tapes. The Levy score hadn't particularly stirred me, and the Japanese score grew on me. When the show picked back up, I picked up the first VHS tape... and disappointment set in. This isn't the thread to go into the voices, but the music just felt shallow. The easiest way I can think of to describe it is just to say what it was. Hasty and cheap. I don't mean that as an insult to Mr. Faulconer and his staff or to dub fans (also keeping in mind that, due to single-language releases only, I myself was basically a dub fan at this stage). FUNimation was on a tight budget. They needed a large number of episodes scored, and due to the format (Toonami, airing new episodes multiple times a week instead of just once a week) needed those eps scored FAST. So what we fans got was the guy who the budget shopper could afford, given a massive workload and put under ridiculous time constraints. Not only that, but the direction given was meant to cater to the companies perception of their target audience at the time- hyperactive toddlers with ADD. Official quotes on the matter show that they felt any nuance or depth to the score would be lost on their viewers, and any instance of the music toning down or opting for silence would cause their viewers to grow bored and change the channel. Again, that FUNimation had no money, Faulconer had a rush schedule on a show airing weekday afternoons, and that the company felt their audience needed a hyper soundtrack are not instances of dub-bashing. That's just how it was.

As time went on, there were some stand out pieces to this score. Tracks that have made their way onto playlists of mine, and that's coming from a detractor to the score as a whole. So, my issue has nothing to do with liking some dub music or anything. Rather, it is this- why does the ability to enjoy the dub score seem to come so often with a statement of its quality or even superiority as a score to the series as a whole? Does that tight budget and rushed feeling not translate, or do people just feel that they stretched that money really well? Or was FUNi simply right? While I and others found their assessment of kids to be an insulting assumption and underestimation of children, had they actually found their market in a younger generation I myself was growing out of?

I'm asking that, because I can see myself in a dubbies shows. I can name at least a half dozen old sub-par (or downright crap) dubs with generic schlock for BGM that I "grew up on." I have nostalgia for these shows, and can hum their American tunes. Yet I recognize that these were half-hearted efforts from a time when anime wasn't seen as marketable on its own merits, and that the concepts behind their production are by now a thing of the past. I love the Teknoman opening theme, I do. I used to watch that show every weekend. But I recognize the dub for what it is. You would never catch me on a Tekkaman Blade forum waving some old-school nostalgia-filled dub pride banner.

It's also aggravating to watch, because many people (not necessarily anyone posting in this thread, as I wouldn't know) have double standards. I know plenty of blanket FUNi fanboys who praise FUNi for rescuing One Piece from the horrible hands of 4Kids. Yet the 4Kids-esque blight in the FUNimation catalog? For some reason this is given a free pass. I know people who rip on the Naruto, Bleach, and Death Note dubs as being terrible in their opinion, but who love the DBZ dub. It's just mind boggling.

Oh, and Gozar- keep in mind one thing. At one point, people where deprived of options. What you said makes perfect sense now. But if you were following the series in America from the get-go, it took forever to get dual-language releases. Even then, none of them were finished until the orange bricks.

[hui43210]

Who gives a god damn whether or not the music sounds "cool" and more like "ass kicking serious shit"? That couldn't be further away from the point. Would you dub music knobslobbers be okay with FUNimation redubbing every instance of the names Goku and Gohan with "Tom" and "Jerry"? No, I don't think you would. And if you disagree with blatant name changes, take a look out your window. See that? It's your dub music argument flying the fuck away.

Absolutely unacceptable response and attitude on this forum. Try again.

Nice. I just want to say I like the Japanese score and saw the first 3 seasons using that score. Then I found out I could change the music to the way I saw it as a kid in 2000-2004 and I just liked it better that way. So, it's like for older people who liked Dragonball before it was mainstream, they saw everything they liked more or less raped by Funi and Ocean. It brings me back to when I randomly went to YTV and saw the first episode of DBZ in 1999 or 2000. However, since they skipped over the part with Gohan and the sabertooth... and all of Dragonball for that matter... it really was not the first episode.

[MCDaveG]

japanese score is classical piece of orchestral music used to play in anime shows from 70's to 90's...... american score is some whatever techno-rock arrangement edited to show by some crazy deaf idiots. I think that this neverending competition is pretty clear