Not Your Typical Goku/Superman Thread

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:11 am

MCDaveG wrote:.....will be sucked nd reduced to smithereens.... I saw lot of idiotic hentai with Transformers, but Superman always seems to me as more stupid then anything Japanese.....

Robot is f*stars*king maid because it's perverse and abnormal, but Superman is battling with blackholes because it's cool..... There is nothing sexy or good about it, it's cool for ten year old kids that there is only one idiot on this planet and many other planets as well, who can compete with black hole.

Japan has its own characters that could battle with black holes. Tenchi Masaki and Gurren Lagann spring to mind.

Edit: Forgot about Zoalords from Guyver, some of whom can create black holes, while at least one other has actually survived and escaped from one.

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:37 am

Yeah, Japan is really freaky, but I have that fun feeling from Japanese media instead of western comic book coolness.....I always had feeling that lot of things in western comics is only made to be cool. That's why my only favorite character is Batman, because formerly he was only detective in mask and human with no special powers, by progress to nowadays he's the same, but with hi-tech gadgets and martial-arts to better competing with criminals + billionare to get money on his gadgets.....

I like little Spider-man from Marvel, only because my childhood, but I also thinks about Marvel that I'm looking on colorful gay parade instead of some crime fighting.....

I also don't like other characters from DC like Lantern and maybe I'll never like the enw series Batman Brave and Bold.
I have a really difficult taste on things

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:37 am

Their are many fictional characters that can create or tank black holes such The Silver Surfer and other Heralds of Galactus, from Marvel. Able to surrived or create one is a pretty darn good feat since their powerful that nothing, not even light, can escape its pull after having fallen past its event horizon. I'm not sure if DBZGT characters can escape from one or not since it's unlikely.

Forgot about Zoalords from Guyver, some of whom can create black holes, while at least one other has actually survived and escaped from one.

Those are pseudo-black holes and have been know to be stop by ki/energy attacks before. Their pretty strong but not that strong.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:59 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:Those are pseudo-black holes and have been know to be stop by ki/energy attacks before. Their pretty strong but not that strong.

For something to be a black hole by definition, it only has to have a particular mass in a particular area. It can be a black hole and still be small (i.e. the radius). I think the only thing 'pseudo' about Guyot's one was that it was artificially created/sustained, and thus could be turned off if you didn't let it continue for too long. He seemed to think it had the gravity and mass of a real one, once you're past the event horizon.

Whoops, this is totally off topic...

I originally said that I thought animated Superman would be a good match for Goku, but godofchaos reminded me just how much he's always holding back. He only even begins to use his 'full power' when he fights Darkseid, and that doesn't last very long. Because of this, it's hard to say which version of Goku would be the best to match him against.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:05 am

When ever I discuss Goku vs Superman with friend who are familiar with both I always bring up that what's more important than what each character can do is how much damage they can take and how long they can fight.

We've seen Goku beaten and battered and broken. The final time being right after the Ginyu fight. From what I've read and watched of Superman, I can't really say I've seen him truly beaten and brken besides a couple of run ins with Darkseid and Doomsday. Sure, he's been smacked around a bit, but nothing to serious that didn't include kryptonite, magic, or a red star.

Goku would most likely tired himself out fighting Superman, in my opinion. And in the end, their fighting styles and personality would prevent any all out fighting. They would rather subdue their enemy than destroy them. The only I would see them getting more serious in a fight is if someone caused them to see the other a true threat, kind of like that episode of Street Fighter II V when Ken and Ryu were in the cave, got separated and saw each other as foes (or the Justice League episode where the same thing happened to Wonder Woman and Superman in the mall).

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:00 pm

I think the Smallville Superman against DBE Goku would be a idea for a match up if they made sequel equal.

JulieYBM wrote:
Big Momma wrote:Could someone show me some pics showcasing the incredible power of Pre-Crises Superman? I've always heard about how god-like he is, but I've never read enough of the comics to get a good example.

Yup, here's a tough cookie alright...

He also tanked the power of quasars and magnetic power equal to that of hundreds of galaxies.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:58 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Big Momma wrote:Could someone show me some pics showcasing the incredible power of Pre-Crises Superman? I've always heard about how god-like he is, but I've never read enough of the comics to get a good example.

Yup, here's a tough cookie alright...

Jobbing feat. He does it once, and never displays anywhere near as much power. Ever.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:43 pm

smiley wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:
Big Momma wrote:Could someone show me some pics showcasing the incredible power of Pre-Crises Superman? I've always heard about how god-like he is, but I've never read enough of the comics to get a good example.

Yup, here's a tough cookie alright...
Jobbing feat. He does it once, and never displays anywhere near as much power. Ever.

Well, that's because he is a plot device! :p

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:19 pm

smiley wrote:Jobbing feat. He does it once

Not sure what your point is. That it doesn't count?

and never displays anywhere near as much power. Ever.

You must have missed some of the other examples. I wish I had the one where he blew out a star with his super breath... But hey, containing a black hole in your hands is pretty impressive, too, I guess.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:11 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Well, that's because he is a plot device! :p

This quote, right here. This is the answer to why Superman is so strong.

He's a walking plot device. He is as strong as the writers need him to be at the moment (Pre-Crisis, anyway).

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:38 am

Most of PC Superman powers where based on the plot which is why the current Superman is much weaker since they have down power him during the 80's.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:54 am

smiley wrote:Jobbing feat. He does it once, and never displays anywhere near as much power. Ever.

Why would anyone every need to sneeze away a solar system? Why would anyone want to? Plus, I don't think Superman ever sneezes normally. This was magically induced.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:52 pm

Bussani wrote:
smiley wrote:Jobbing feat. He does it once
Not sure what your point is. That it doesn't count?

As a means of bashing Superman by calling him a walking plot device, no. He's only like that inbetween the Golden and Silver Ages, ie, when comics sucked because everybody could do anything just because, provided the plot would advance (not benefit, just advance). If it wasn't superhero-related, the main character always relied on the author's ability to use random retcons. Remember the freakout in "Misery"? Even though the cliffhanger scene shows a character dying, the character really got away JUST in time! At least Superman's plotdoukens were kind of tied to his powers.

Now, as to whether it counts in a Superman VS Goku debate, I say it could if you want it to, since Goku sporadically has better-than-Kaio telepathy if and only if it can be convenient for him to use it.

and never displays anywhere near as much power. Ever.
You must have missed some of the other examples. I wish I had the one where he blew out a star with his super breath... But hey, containing a black hole in your hands is pretty impressive, too, I guess.

Black hole moments were retconned out because of how stupidly ridiculous it sounds. As for the star, it makes sense: proximity to a star increases his powers, and the kind of star affects him differently.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:07 pm

Dayspring wrote:Black hole moments were retconned out because of how stupidly ridiculous it sounds.

By any chance, were they retconned out by the reality altering punch? That would be deliciously ironic.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:28 pm

Bussani wrote: Not sure what your point is. That it doesn't count?

Of course not. These kind of ridiculous high-end feats are never a deciding factor in Marvel/DC fights.

Example: Silver Surfer can resist black holes, stand next to stars, and all that fancy stuff but gets hurt by weaklings like the Thing. It's no different with PC Superman.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:10 pm

weaklings like the Thing.

You can say the same for Goku since he had trouble against worms in the Black Star Dragon Ball arc and SSJ4 Goku got his leg impaled by a flagpole.

goku the krump dancer · Post by **goku the krump dancer** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:26 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:
weaklings like the Thing.
You can say the same for Goku since he had trouble against worms in the Black Star Dragon Ball arc and SSJ4 Goku got his leg impaled by a flagpole.

His leg wasn't impaled it was his pants.

smiley · Post by **smiley** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:06 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: You can say the same for Goku since he had trouble against worms in the Black Star Dragon Ball arc

I've never watched GT, so you're going to have to elaborate on that. What kind of worms were these? How did he have "trouble" with them?

On the other hand, the limits of the Thing's strength have been defined multiple times throughout the comics and Marvel databooks, and we know for a fact he can't generate greater force than a black hole. Or anywhere near as much for that matter.

and SSJ4 Goku got his leg impaled by a flagpole.

Video please. I want to verify the context.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:14 pm

Bussani wrote:
Dayspring wrote:Black hole moments were retconned out because of how stupidly ridiculous it sounds.
By any chance, were they retconned out by the reality altering punch? That would be deliciously ironic.

Then feel free to enjoy said irony. Judging from the artwork, the black hole nonsense was after '94, ie, after Zero Hour (aka: "The Crisis In Time"). That means if it's crappy, it's been punched out of existence.

The punching thing isn't as out there as it seems. Superboy-Prime is the strongest incarnation of a Superman, while he was trapped in a pocket dimension. So the reality-punching thing was easier than it would be if he were in the actual universe. Essentially what we would call space was a giant invlnerable piece of glass for him, ie, solid.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:52 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:
weaklings like the Thing.
You can say the same for Goku since he had trouble against worms in the Black Star Dragon Ball arc and SSJ4 Goku got his leg impaled by a flagpole.
His leg wasn't impaled it was his pants.

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Goku still had trouble picking up a car and 70's tons before. My point is that stuff like getting hurt by weak or sometype of Jbboing feat happens all the time in pretty much any fiction. Even mighty characters like The Presence have the same issue to (He was stated to made the DC omniverse but he failed to kill The Great Evil Beast). It's all depending on how the character is wirtten for the Plot.