Vegeta's dubbed death speech more accurate than we think?

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:27 am

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote: Dealing with the snippet I used above(because I don't want to go through the whole speech again, let someone else do that) there really isn't that much of a difference when it comes to the gramatical side of things.

Example

Japanese:
we Saiyans... served as his hands and feet... working as he ordered...!

English:
We worked so hard for him.

They are saying the same thing. Sure the Japanese one has more detail but I think the simplification in writing has to do with the lip syncing in English.

And, see I wouldn't complain if all they did WAS word simplification, but they still added a whole dimension of different things on top of that. No one's ever said FUNimation didn't translate /some/ lines fine - but thats simplifying matters considering they then turn and 180 the other parts of the statment.

Ultimate_DB_Fan · Post by **Ultimate_DB_Fan** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:53 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:but I think the simplification in writing has to do with the lip syncing in English.

That has indeed been the case sometimes, but some folks here just don't understand that.

B · Post by B » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:55 pm

Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:but I think the simplification in writing has to do with the lip syncing in English.
That has indeed been the case sometimes, but some folks here just don't understand that.

Y'know, you can do that and still get the line right.

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:59 pm

B wrote:
Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:but I think the simplification in writing has to do with the lip syncing in English.
That has indeed been the case sometimes, but some folks here just don't understand that.
Y'know, you can do that and still get the line right.

Exactly. It isn't simplification, it's rewriting. Hell, I could probably do a better job of rewriting the dialogue while keeping it both accurate and matching to the lip movements.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:01 pm

B wrote:
Ultimate_DB_Fan wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:but I think the simplification in writing has to do with the lip syncing in English.
That has indeed been the case sometimes, but some folks here just don't understand that.
Y'know, you can do that and still get the line right.

Lies. There's no way they could have changed "Cat loves food!" and gotten the lip syncing right!

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:16 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:They are saying the same thing. Sure the Japanese one has more detail but I think the simplification in writing has to do with the lip syncing in English.

But, see, the main issue is the ADDED CONTENT. It's not just lengthening Vegeta's speech, they added character and plot points that... don't exist. This isn't about fitting the lip flaps it's about adding stuff that doesn't belong.

But, again... This is back in the days of Barry Watson. They've gotten much better.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:59 pm

KaiserNeko wrote: But, again... This is back in the days of Barry Watson. They've gotten much better.

Marginally better at best.

Was Barry Watson still around when Gohan had tons of inner monologue after 16 got stomped? Or the dreadful work in the last few episodes of the show?

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:02 pm

penguintruth wrote:
KaiserNeko wrote: But, again... This is back in the days of Barry Watson. They've gotten much better.
Marginally better at best.

Was Barry Watson still around when Gohan had tons of inner monologue after 16 got stomped? Or the dreadful work in the last few episodes of the show?

I more meant as a company, but their dub did get better.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:21 pm

KaiserNeko wrote:
But, again... This is back in the days of Barry Watson. They've gotten much better.

Barry who? Why do I get the feeling that I'm going to dislike this guy?

KaiserNeko · Post by **KaiserNeko** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:45 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:
KaiserNeko wrote:
But, again... This is back in the days of Barry Watson. They've gotten much better.
Barry who? Why do I get the feeling that I'm going to dislike this guy?

Barry Watson. He's responsible for Step Into The Grand tour and most of the Americanization that DragonBall has gone through.

AndoKomando · Post by **AndoKomando** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:57 pm

My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.

Gogeta 00 · Post by **Gogeta 00** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:32 pm

AndoKomando wrote:My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.

Actually, I believe that they did attempt to air Dragonball first back in 1995 but it was yanked due to bad ratings and replaced with Z.

Khalid Shahin · Post by **Khalid Shahin** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:40 pm

Gogeta 00 wrote:
AndoKomando wrote:My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.
Actually, I believe that they did attempt to air Dragonball first back in 1995 but it was yanked due to bad ratings and replaced with Z.

That 1995 dub of Dragon Ball was HORRIBLE, correct?

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:40 pm

Gogeta 00 wrote:
AndoKomando wrote:My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.
Actually, I believe that they did attempt to air Dragonball first back in 1995 but it was yanked due to bad ratings and replaced with Z.

It actually aired two separate time.

And from what I hear...it didn't do too bad.

Gogeta 00 · Post by **Gogeta 00** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 9:42 pm

Big Momma wrote:
Gogeta 00 wrote:
AndoKomando wrote:My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.
Actually, I believe that they did attempt to air Dragonball first back in 1995 but it was yanked due to bad ratings and replaced with Z.
It actually aired two separate time.

And from what I hear...it didn't do too bad.

The first time being harmony gold right?

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:42 pm

AndoKomando wrote:My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.

As others have said, Dragon Ball did air in the US before DBZ. It was only first 13 episodes and the first movie, but that's still enough to understand quite a bit.

Another thing I should mention... Pioneer (now Geneon) had nothing to do with the production or airing of DBZ (or DB). Geneon was only the distributor of the DBZ DVDs, VHS, and LaserDisks. They did however produce the uncut dubs of movies one, two, and three.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:51 pm

Khalid Shahin wrote:
Gogeta 00 wrote:
AndoKomando wrote:My theory on why they changed the script in all of dbz is the simple fact that it would have been hard for Americans, or any other country who got DBZ first, to follow. I say this because we got DBZ before DB. I have really been noticing that this "theory" of mine is actually the reason by watching the Japanese dub on the DragonBox. They are constantly referring to things that would have been mentioned in DB. Now I know that Vegita's death speech was delivered in the Freeza saga but still even a slight change in the beginning can change what happens later and what is said later. So I don't blame Funi for changing it I blame Pioneer for not bringing DB on before they showed Z, but I am sure they had bigger reasons for not doing that. So just keep what i wrote in mind.
Actually, I believe that they did attempt to air Dragonball first back in 1995 but it was yanked due to bad ratings and replaced with Z.
That 1995 dub of Dragon Ball was HORRIBLE, correct?

It was ok. Will admit, it did get away with some things that Z wasn't able to, like directly reference death.

Another thing I should mention... Pioneer (now Geneon) had nothing to do with the production or airing of DBZ (or DB). Geneon was only the distributor of the DBZ DVDs, VHS, and LaserDisks. They did however produce the uncut dubs of movies one, two, and three.

True. It's similar to what Funimation did for TMNT, Yugi, and other older anime they now distribute like Slayers and Love Hina.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:38 am

Super Sonic wrote:
Khalid Shahin wrote:That 1995 dub of Dragon Ball was HORRIBLE, correct?
It was ok. Will admit, it did get away with some things that Z wasn't able to, like directly reference death.

I feel like I should mention the reason for that. It was because, luckily, Saban had nothing to do with Funimation's dub of Dragon Ball. I remember an interview with the company that handled the localization and stuff (actually, maybe it was just Funimation). I can't seem to find it though. It was pretty interesting.

samuraigundam · Post by **samuraigundam** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:31 am

I dont think that just because most Saiya-Jins are jerks means that Vegeta ( and for that matter, all Saiya-Jin ) lacks free will, or the general knowledge that what they do is evil. There is a possibility Vegeta could have chosen a better path, became a better person, and rejected the Saiya-Jin ideology. Even Bardock came to something close to genuinely caring in a fatherly way about his son.

That said, the dub dialogue was pretty close before that whole " it wasnt me, it was Freeza " nonsense. Vegeta knew that he was an evil bastard out of choice ,and would never blame someone else for the lifestyle he chose.

Although in the Boo Saga, when he lets himself be possesed by Babidi because he missed the evil person he was, he does run through how he came to soften up and care for the people around him. Which leads to him shortly realizing he really does care, which leads to him sacrificing himself in an attempt to kill Boo, and gaining that nifty halo.