They both seemed fairly confident that they'd done so.If there's a line, scene or anything you could give me that proves that because 'they knew his power, and because they wanted to surpass it with training, they did', that'd be great.
And where, exactly, do you get this idea that the Cell Jrs. are equal to suppressed Cell from? There's never any statement, anywhere, to indicate what their strength level is.Savage68 wrote:SSj Vegeta and Trunks were equal to Cell Jrs. that were equal to the same heavily suppressed Perfect Cell that 50% Goku was equal to.
They couldn't have surpassed his strength.
I agree with this. In that case, then all Gohan would have had to do was punch Cell before he had a chance to use his full power.Xyex wrote:And where, exactly, do you get this idea that the Cell Jrs. are equal to suppressed Cell from? There's never any statement, anywhere, to indicate what they're strength level is.Savage68 wrote:SSj Vegeta and Trunks were equal to Cell Jrs. that were equal to the same heavily suppressed Perfect Cell that 50% Goku was equal to.
They couldn't have surpassed his strength.
...You mean besides the one Cell made directly after he spawned them? Anyway, there doesn't have to be a statement made to discern a character's strength, unless you're blind or something.Xyex wrote:And where, exactly, do you get this idea that the Cell Jrs. are equal to suppressed Cell from? There's never any statement, anywhere, to indicate what their strength level is.Savage68 wrote:SSj Vegeta and Trunks were equal to Cell Jrs. that were equal to the same heavily suppressed Perfect Cell that 50% Goku was equal to.
They couldn't have surpassed his strength.
Heavily suppressed PC is much weaker than the suppressed one that 'fought' Gohan...jjgp1112 wrote:In that case, then all Gohan would have had to do was punch Cell before he had a chance to use his full power.
1) They don't have all of Cell's strength. 2) That doesn't imply they would be the equivalent of suppressed Cell. 3) That doesn't imply it was equal to 50% of FPSSJ Goku.They have all of Cell's strength, but no aura - thus would have to be equivalent to the heavily suppressed Perfect Cell. That same Cell that fought 50% of FPSSj Goku, and was even with.
No, it would imply they were stronger than they were previously, possibly stronger than whatever level suppressed Cell was at when they first fought him.Any stronger than that, and it would mean that Vegeta and Trunks were stronger than Cell,
They flat-out state why they did:and it would make no sense for them to be watching with the rest of the weaklings when they were completely comparable to his power.
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
Yes.Dayspring wrote:You mean the one where he tells them to do what they want with the heroes, the ones when he says "of course they're strong. They're my children." the one that has him telling Gohan to hurry up and reveal his potential because even Vegeta and Trunks aren't finding it a cakewalk, or the one where Cell notes that it won't be long before Gohan reveals his strength?
There would be no way for it not to. Their strength can be easily deduced through a few simple ways, actually:The manga implies that they're equal to Trunks and Vegeta, but mentions nothing about how strong that actually is or how close to whatever version of Cell it is.
Read the next sequence of words after that.They don't have all of Cell's strength.
How does it not? You know Cell has different auras and stuff, right?That doesn't imply they would be the equivalent of suppressed Cell.
So you didn't read the fight where Cell and Goku were even with each other before they powered-up. Hm.That doesn't imply it was equal to 50% of FPSSJ Goku.
No, it would imply just what I said. They were equal to the Cell Jrs, who couldn't be stronger than the weakest version of Cell we see, otherwise it'd mean that they would do better against the Cell Goku initially fought.No, it would imply they were stronger than they were previously, possibly stronger than whatever level suppressed Cell was at when they first fought him.
That still begs the question as to just why it is beings who are stronger than Goku, at the time(that, by your own admission thought they were stronger than 50% SSj Goku) didn't do jack, if they actually believed they were stronger.1) They wanted to see Goku's strength.
2) They tell Trunks (and therefore the reader) not to interfere because of warrior's pride.
3) They were also going to use the tactic of fighting one after another with senzus, meaning they figured Cell would be worn down if nobody was strong enough one-on-one (albeit, Goku didn't like this one and gave Cell a senzu).
That's incredibly ambiguous. And I don't know who 'we' is.As for how strong we think they are, we told you: stronger than whatever level Cell was at (suppressed) when he first fought them after obtaining Perfect form.
Captain Christopher Pike wrote:The away team will consist of myself, Cadet Kirk, Mr. Sulu, and Ensign Olsen.
The Geeky Gentleman: For all your comics, movies, TV and other geeky needs.Freeza Heika wrote: for the land of the cool, and the home of the Appule
That tells us nothing of their level of power relative to Cell.There would be no way for it not to. Their strength can be easily deduced through a few simple ways, actually:
- SSj Vegeta and Trunks are equal to them.
Likewise.- Piccolo is almost equal to them.
Again, nothing comparing to Cell.- SSj Vegeta and Trunks are much weaker than FPSSj Goku.
And yet again, nothing.- FPSSj Goku is tired, and is getting beaten as badly as the humans.
Bullshit? :pYou smell what I'm stepping in?
So?No, it would imply just what I said. They were equal to the Cell Jrs, who couldn't be stronger than the weakest version of Cell we see, otherwise it'd mean that they would do better against the Cell Goku initially fought.
Why would they?That still begs the question as to just why it is beings who are stronger than Goku, at the time(that, by your own admission thought they were stronger than 50% SSj Goku) didn't do jack, if they actually believed they were stronger.
Welcome to Dragonball~That's incredibly ambiguous.
No, it wouldn't. It would mean they were stronger than 50% Cell.Goku was equal to that same Cell. If the Cell Jrs. are stronger than that, and Vegeta and Trunks rivaled them, it would mean they're stronger than Goku, approaching USSj 2 Trunks' strength.
The narrator says 'Gekiretsu Kodan' in the anime.Hero 004 wrote:Thanks, that's a bit strange but at least making reference to a previous attack tells that it's the same style. Yeah the "Makosen" thing always threw me off a bit too, but I suppose I like that name for similar reasons.Not really, but it gets called "Gekiretsu-Kodan" (Violent Light Bullet) in the video games.
edit: Wait, seems Daizenshuu 2 calls it "Chou-Bakuretsu-Maha" (Super Explosive Demon Wave)...though Daizenshuu 7 and several video games use this name for the attack Piccolo uses to blow the city away during his match with Goku at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai.
Savage68 wrote:Yes.Dayspring wrote:You mean the one where he tells them to do what they want with the heroes, the ones when he says "of course they're strong. They're my children." the one that has him telling Gohan to hurry up and reveal his potential because even Vegeta and Trunks aren't finding it a cakewalk, or the one where Cell notes that it won't be long before Gohan reveals his strength?There would be no way for it not to. Their strength can be easily deduced through a few simple ways, actually:The manga implies that they're equal to Trunks and Vegeta, but mentions nothing about how strong that actually is or how close to whatever version of Cell it is.
- SSj Vegeta and Trunks are equal to them.
- Piccolo is almost equal to them.
- SSj Vegeta and Trunks are much weaker than FPSSj Goku.
- FPSSj Goku is tired, and is getting beaten as badly as the humans.
You smell what I'm stepping in?Read the next sequence of words after that.They don't have all of Cell's strength.How does it not? You know Cell has different auras and stuff, right?That doesn't imply they would be the equivalent of suppressed Cell.So you didn't read the fight where Cell and Goku were even with each other before they powered-up. Hm.That doesn't imply it was equal to 50% of FPSSJ Goku.No, it would imply just what I said. They were equal to the Cell Jrs, who couldn't be stronger than the weakest version of Cell we see, otherwise it'd mean that they would do better against the Cell Goku initially fought.No, it would imply they were stronger than they were previously, possibly stronger than whatever level suppressed Cell was at when they first fought him.That still begs the question as to just why it is beings who are stronger than Goku, at the time(that, by your own admission thought they were stronger than 50% SSj Goku) didn't do jack, if they actually believed they were stronger.1) They wanted to see Goku's strength.
2) They tell Trunks (and therefore the reader) not to interfere because of warrior's pride.
3) They were also going to use the tactic of fighting one after another with senzus, meaning they figured Cell would be worn down if nobody was strong enough one-on-one (albeit, Goku didn't like this one and gave Cell a senzu).That's incredibly ambiguous. And I don't know who 'we' is.As for how strong we think they are, we told you: stronger than whatever level Cell was at (suppressed) when he first fought them after obtaining Perfect form.
Goku was equal to that same Cell. If the Cell Jrs. are stronger than that, and Vegeta and Trunks rivaled them, it would mean they're stronger than Goku, approaching USSj 2 Trunks' strength.
This would get no one anywhere. It's one thing if you acknowledge that something has no basis to make a reasonable decision on. But if you have citations, you apparently think it's the case for a reason.ChaojiShucaiRen wrote:In short, can't everybody agree to disagree?
It's certainly better than spiraling into a never-ending chain of arguments and dickery.Savage68 wrote:This would get no one anywhere. It's one thing if you acknowledge that something has no basis to make a reasonable decision on. But if you have citations, you apparently think it's the case for a reason.ChaojiShucaiRen wrote:In short, can't everybody agree to disagree?
Kaboom wrote:It's certainly better than spiraling into a never-ending chain of arguments and dickery.Savage68 wrote:This would get no one anywhere. It's one thing if you acknowledge that something has no basis to make a reasonable decision on. But if you have citations, you apparently think it's the case for a reason.ChaojiShucaiRen wrote:In short, can't everybody agree to disagree?
