DBZ Kai Dub - Ideal Recasts?

[MajinVejitaXV]

And even then that's really only something that matters to fans of the Japanese version... who are quite unlikely to watch or, indeed, even care about the dub.

Why? I'm sorry, but this seems... selfish. I watch dubs. I watch FUNimation dubs. If the original attempts to dub DBZ had been more faithful, I'd be a fan. And I'm not terribly hard to please. I really just need an attempt. Chris Sabat has basically gone on record as saying "the scripts we got sucked, so fuck it we wrote our own." A good portion of the dub was basically an amateur vocal cast reciting fan fiction that occasionally got a major line right. If FUNi had been the company now that it was then, there would be MORE dub fans. People who prefer dubs would still like it. People on the fence, and even some sub-centric people would likely have enjoyed it as well. If the Kai dub is done better, I'll watch it. And I don't even particularly like Kai. "Dub fans" need to drop this side of things- acting like those of us who don't like the dub shouldn't give a damn what they do. Some of us do like good dubs, and obviously like Dragon Ball. Maybe, just maybe, we'd like to see a merging of the two concepts.

This. One thousand times over, even. I have no problem with watching anime in English, and if a dub is well-done I will oftentimes watch it as often as the Japanese version and develop a liking for both versions on equal levels (Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Gungrave, Fruits Basket, Hellsing Ultimate, Death Note, Pioneer's DBZ movies, etc). To simply dismiss a portion of us who didn't favor FUNimation's version for whatever reason from ever being capable of liking a dub of DragonBall/Z/GT is a bit silly. It's tantamount to telling someone who complained because a steak gave them food poisoning that they must be incapable of enjoying steak for the rest of their lives.

[DemonRin]

This. One thousand times over, even. I have no problem with watching anime in English, and if a dub is well-done I will oftentimes watch it as often as the Japanese version and develop a liking for both versions on equal levels (Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Gungrave, Fruits Basket, Hellsing Ultimate, Death Note, Pioneer's DBZ movies, etc). To simply dismiss a portion of us who didn't favor FUNimation's version for whatever reason from ever being capable of liking a dub of DragonBall/Z/GT is a bit silly. It's tantamount to telling someone who complained because a steak gave them food poisoning that they must be incapable of enjoying steak for the rest of their lives.

This x2.
I could not agree more at all... Especially the part I bolded XD

FUNimation themselves do KICKASS dubs now. YYH is Great, Fullmetal Alchemist is great, and One Piece is probably the best dub they've ever produced.
I have faith that if they actually put the effort into it, they could make a dub I'd actually like to watch. The question is, will they abandon enough of their old ways to actually do a good job on Kai or not.
There seems to be this odd curse on the Dragon Ball Franchise that FUNimation can't get it right. The Dragon Boxes seemed to be a sign that that curse is lifting, lets see if it carries over to Kai as well.

[Xyex]

He's a dubbie, a dubbie who doesn't like Freeza's Voice. And he's far from the only one I've spoken to.

Which is why I stated:

It's at least a 5 to 1 difference from what I've seen. For everyone who like FUNi Freeza but complains about Nozawa there's five that go the other way.

I know there are plenty of dubbies who don't like FUNi Freeza very much (though a number of them would say they like Ocean Freeza) and even a number of them will say they like Nozawa even if they prefer listening to the dub for one reason or another. There isn't a clear cut line between dubbies and subbies, hasn't been for years.

Certainly didn't bomb when Season 3 came around... :p. I wouldn't mind a new cast but I'm not against the current one being kept - save possibly Mr. Schemmel as Kaio.

It didn't bomb but it was horribly off putting. The new voices, combined with my general dislike of everything involving Ginyu's body switching which was what S3 started with, very nearly lead me to stop watching. I decided to stick it out, at least until the end of the current arc, and see if things improved, both story and voice wise, but I know a number of people didn't.

Also note that the S3 voice change happened very early in the series run, comparitively speaking. People were attached to the voices but not to the degree they are now becuase they hadn't been so inundated with them as we have been the FUNi cast.

Why? I'm sorry, but this seems... selfish. I watch dubs. I watch FUNimation dubs. If the original attempts to dub DBZ had been more faithful, I'd be a fan. And I'm not terribly hard to please. I really just need an attempt. Chris Sabat has basically gone on record as saying "the scripts we got sucked, so fuck it we wrote our own." A good portion of the dub was basically an amateur vocal cast reciting fan fiction that occasionally got a major line right. If FUNi had been the company now that it was then, there would be MORE dub fans. People who prefer dubs would still like it. People on the fence, and even some sub-centric people would likely have enjoyed it as well. If the Kai dub is done better, I'll watch it. And I don't even particularly like Kai. "Dub fans" need to drop this side of things- acting like those of us who don't like the dub shouldn't give a damn what they do. Some of us do like good dubs, and obviously like Dragon Ball. Maybe, just maybe, we'd like to see a merging of the two concepts.

I'm not saying that there aren't some who prefer the sub that would actually watch the dub. But the vast majority? Quite a few sub fans can't stand the good dubs we get of other shows and rant, rave, and bitch about them anyway. And even many of those who don't complain about the dub will often go "Yeah, it's good, but I'm gonna watch it in Japanese anyway." We've already had people in this very thread state that even if it were to be re-dubbed to current FUNimation standards they wouldn't actually watch it. I think it's rather dumb to cater both versions to a smaller crowd in the fandom in which many of them wouldn't care nor watch the dub anyway. That's not to say that some dub fans wouldn't agree with some of the replacement choices I've seen listed in here, but at this point I think the better option for FUNi is to adjust the scripts, cut down some of Sabat's extra roles, and work with what they've got.

If the Japanese dub of Star Wars Episode IV had Darth Vader say this line to Obi-Wan, it would NOT be the problem of a viewer who had seen the original for not appreciating the inappropriate and unnecessary attempt at humor. Actually, I hadn't even seen much of the Japanese version, and was still a dubbie during season 3. Even then, I thought the script and performances were laughably bad. So did pretty much everybody. When season 3 rolled out, the show was generally viewed as good in spite of its vocal track. Fans of the first two seasons hated the new voices. New fans generally seemed to treat the voices as if they were watching an amusingly bad english-dubbed kung fu flick. It is still odd to me that so many people retroactively swear by these things now of days.

As I said, I didn't care for the new voices in S3 either, not until well into the season after they'd had time to improve and I had time to adjust to them. I thought the vast majority of them were absolutely terrible at the time, and most of them still make me cringe when I hear an S3 clip. Freeza was one of the few new ones I didn't mind, though.

And see, this is one of the things I've spent the last several years trying to get across to people: You're not watching the original, you're watching the dub. They didn't say that in the original? So what. They didn't sound like that in the original? So what. It's not a big deal. I've dealt with it in other shows, myself. You hear and like the JP version a lot and that comes to be the version you expect... even when it's not what you're watching. I'm not saying that dubbers shouldn't take effort to be faithful to the original, I'm just saying that if you're watching a dub then don't expect the JP version of the show.

[Onikage725]

I can't really think of how to put this. It goes to something of the heart of the series in question. I absolutely adore the YYH dub. I do. And that script has numerous changes. But no character comes off as out of character, the story doesn't suffer, and the point remains the same. The biggest changes, in my opinion, are Yusuke and Hiei. But they still feel like Yusuke and Hiei to me, just different takes on the character. I also used to love Working Designs projects. I'm all for a good transliteration and localization process. I don't expect word for word dialogue (though there is a good argument for keeping things close if one looks at, say, Gundam Wing). I understand cultural differences and the flaws in expecting an American actor to imitate a Japanese one.

So, to sum up: I'm not really a major "purist." I don't mind adaptations. I don't expect dub actors to imitate originals- just focus on conveying the character well. I don't expect a word for word translation out of the script. Still, FUNi's DBZ irritates the hell out of me. I can watch DB (though not my preferred version), but their take on DBZ is inconsistent as all hell with drastically rewritten scripts and numerous altered characterizations. It's like the Sailor Moon school of dubbing, or worse, except they thankfully fought to get the show out uncut.

BTW, I officially vote Steven Blum for Piccolo. But I have been playing a lot of Mass Effect 2. Thinking about the other end of his vocal spectrum, he could probably do an interesting Freeza too.

[Big Momma]

Freeza's dub voice never really bothered me in the first place, and it's really just the voice I've come to know from an English Freeza. I really can't imagine an English Freeza sounding any other way, not that it couldn't be done well (I loved what Team Four Star did, although it was for humor).

[Xyex]

As long as they don't get Final Bout's Freeza to do the voice I don't think there's anything to complain about. >>

[VegettoEX]

As long as they don't get Final Bout's Freeza to do the voice I don't think there's anything to complain about. >>

You joke, but I'm so horribly conflicted on that. For whatever reason, it works.

The dialogue is so perfectly translated and adapted from the original script ("To show you a terror beyond Hell... that was our agreement, wasn't it?"), that I almost feel like any "voice" for the character, so long as it's acted well, can bring out the character. I'll add my own vote into the mix that... Hell, for all I know, Linda Young could pull off an amazing Freeza interpretation if she was given the same damn character to work with. The Final Bout voice was, and as nasally and strange sounding as it is... it's still somehow Freeza.

It's not about "male" or "female" -- it's about the character. For one that's so amazingly nuanced, you need a combination of impeccable casting, directing, and scripting... which is not something that was done back in 1999 for the character.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[ohaimynameiserik]

Certainly didn't bomb when Season 3 came around... :p. I wouldn't mind a new cast but I'm not against the current one being kept - save possibly Mr. Schemmel as Kaio.

It also didn't have half the fanbase it has now, and the previous actors were only there for 53 episodes.

Whereas dub fans have been hearing these actors for the past decade.

[Xyex]

Xyex's problem with the hate for Freeza's dub voice was that he felt it was hypocritical that people who prefer Nozawa's Goku will turn around and call out Freeza's dub voice as horrid because it's a womanly voice.

Yeah, that's one of my biggest issues with the complaints. When someone says they don't like it for this reason or that, fine. But when I see "Freeza's a guy, he should be voiced by a man!" from someone whom I've also seen talk about how Nozawa's is the 'perfect Goku' it just gets really irritating. I have other issues with other complaints about Freeza, but I have issues about a lot of the complaints I see for various FUNi characters. Puar and Kid Chi-Chi are really the only voices I find to be irritating on their own merits as voices, outside of any character context.

Young's performance makes Freeza into a totally different character, one that's FAR less interesting and more like a typical one dimensional Saturday morning cartoon villain. And THAT'S the problem. She doesn't bring the menace and the multi dimensional layers to the character that the original voice did. You CAN'T in any way buy her Freeza as any kind of a credible threat. She, much like much of the rest of the dub's characterizations of the other characters, is treated like a joke, like it's all a big fan-parody dub that a bunch of college slackers threw together on their computers while blackout drunk out of their skulls.

Well, that was the era back then. They wanted something the US market would eat up so they made it your typical US tv show with their voice choices. Nothing really unexpected about that. And perhaps that's one of the reasons I generally like the FUNi voices. I find a distinct sort of charm in that 'Saturday morning cartoon villain' style. (Note of interest: first time I saw DBZ was the Namek arc including episodes of Vegeta and 1st form Freeza during it's Saturday morning syndicated airings on ABC.)

As for not being able to buy Freeza as a credible threat from the voice, those sorts of blanket statements are as annoying as the above female/male voice stuff. You may not be able to but I was perfectly capable of doing so, and in fact did do so. I never felt any of the characters were 'treated as a joke' either. But, again, this could all go back to the fact that I enjoy that 'Saturday morning cartoon' feel.

It's funny, I'm listening to the latest podcast right now and I'm listening to Gozar's defending of the dub cast. He brings up a few points that I can actually get behind, mainly that the script contributes to a lot of the problems more so than the cast themselves do. I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, it definitely worsens things considerably. On the other hand, I think that even a correct script still wouldn't correct the problem that is the acting style that's employed by the FUNi cast for the dub.

Personally, I think what FUNi needs to do is script and voice direction work. Changing the cast wont mean anything if they give the new cast the exact same script they gave the old one, nor would either change matter if the voice direction remains unchanged.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Xyex]

But I’ve just always absolutely HATED how unnecessarily “incremental” FUNi’s improvements with handling this show has been over the years, and why they can't just find the testicular fortitude to just say "fuck it" and retool the whole damn thing from scratch the way it desperately needed to be since day 1, especially with as golden an oportunity to do so as Kai represents.

Well, they might yet. Sure, on the one hand you have the "They've done it this way for a decade/people know this version/etc" reasons they wont. On the other hand you have One Piece. While OP was them fixing someone elses fuck-ups it does show that they are open to the end of dropping the old and redoing it from scratch with no real concessions to the original dub.

I have to say that as much as I do like the original version it would be interesting to see them go back and give Z the same kind of dubbing treatment that everything else gets now. And you're right, Kai does give them a golden opportunity to do so. "Refreshing" is the entire point of Kai, and they've got the DBoxes for the fans of the original.

[penguintruth]

It's not hypocritical at all to say Nozawa is a perfect Goku and have a problem with Young's Freeza. Goku's personality is a certain way where that voice is great for it, and the delivery is perfect. Freeza's personality doesn't come through in the dub voice, it makes Freeza into some lustful transvestite, not a haughty aristrocrat with a cruel streak, as intended.

[Captain Awesome]

I think that this is probably where I’m differing the most with the vast majority of Daizex, and where only very few other users like penguintruth and Captain Awesome seem to be on the same page that I am. As tremendous a problem as the script is, and yes I agree that it’s the number one priority problem that NEEDS to be fixed desperately, I also do think that the stylistic approach to the voice acting is at the very least the number 2 problem right behind the script. For the sake of the fight scenes alone if nothing else.

I agreed with Gozar when it came to the script being the single biggest problem, but as everyone knows I'm of the mind that the cast has consistently proven over more than a decade that they simply can't do the characters justice.

My main problem with the FUNimation cast is that they are woeful character actors, the majority of them are only capable of forcing a one note character voice out, meaning whenever they actually have to emote they struggle to convey anything other than "I am this character happy, I am this character angry" a prime example would be Vegeta's dying speech in the re-dub, Sabat actually reverts almost to his speaking voice because he simply can't display any kind of emotional range while he's doing his Vegeta-that is flat out poor character acting.

I personally would love to see an entirely new cast, because FUNimation has proved they can produce some great dubs (I adore their One Piece dub) but so long as they rely on people who couldn't do their jobs 11 years ago (and have shown almost no improvement) I can't help but feel that the hamfisted tripe the cast has been coughing up for the last decade is going to impact the tone of the new dub- no matter how accurate the script may be.

I want grounded, believeable performances, that is what makes a characters endearing, not overstated one note caricatures that can't act even in a remotely convincing fashion, let alone actually make me care about them.

[Strongbad456]

I really don't want any recasts. I grew up watching DBZ on CN so I'm used to FUNi's voices and I have no problems with them. I also know that there's no chance in hell that they're gonna recast any of the major characters. I think FUNi's VAs tried their best and I admire them for that. It's the direction that needs to be changed. Good voice direction and an accurate script are all I want.

[Big Momma]

I personally would love to see an entirely new cast, because FUNimation has proved they can produce some great dubs (I adore their One Piece dub) but so long as they rely on people who couldn't do their jobs 11 years ago (and have shown almost no improvement) I can't help but feel that the hamfisted tripe the cast has been coughing up for the last decade is going to impact the tone of the new dub- no matter how accurate the script may be.

I want grounded, believeable performances, that is what makes a characters endearing, not overstated one note caricatures that can't act even in a remotely convincing fashion, let alone actually make me care about them.

Aren't most of their One Piece voices done by people who voiced in DBZ?

[JulieYBM]

I personally would love to see an entirely new cast, because FUNimation has proved they can produce some great dubs (I adore their One Piece dub) but so long as they rely on people who couldn't do their jobs 11 years ago (and have shown almost no improvement) I can't help but feel that the hamfisted tripe the cast has been coughing up for the last decade is going to impact the tone of the new dub- no matter how accurate the script may be.

I want grounded, believeable performances, that is what makes a characters endearing, not overstated one note caricatures that can't act even in a remotely convincing fashion, let alone actually make me care about them.

Aren't most of their One Piece voices done by people who voiced in DBZ?

Not quite. A number of them are, and but even more of them did background characters in the redub of Seasons One and Two. There's also very, very little doubling up in their One Piece dub of roles (save for Kent Williams who does something like four villains, as well as Andy Mullins who does both Don Krieg and Wapol).

[SilverPlaqueVII]

I personally would love to see an entirely new cast, because FUNimation has proved they can produce some great dubs (I adore their One Piece dub) but so long as they rely on people who couldn't do their jobs 11 years ago (and have shown almost no improvement) I can't help but feel that the hamfisted tripe the cast has been coughing up for the last decade is going to impact the tone of the new dub- no matter how accurate the script may be.

I want grounded, believeable performances, that is what makes a characters endearing, not overstated one note caricatures that can't act even in a remotely convincing fashion, let alone actually make me care about them.

Aren't most of their One Piece voices done by people who voiced in DBZ?

Not quite. A number of them are, and but even more of them did background characters in the redub of Seasons One and Two. There's also very, very little doubling up in their One Piece dub of roles (save for Kent Williams who does something like four villains, as well as Andy Mullins who does both Don Krieg and Wapol).

Ace is played by Travis Willingham, which he took over Cell for Clarke on Dragon Ball: Raging Blast.

[LeprikanGT]

MY ideal recast? KEEP everyone the same. the Funimation cast is the Funimation cast.

I'm sure if they can get everyone of them back to Dub Kai, they WILL.

[jjgp1112]

The reason why nobody has a problem with Freeza being voiced by a woman is because he looks like one.

Er...no he doesn't. What criteria are you using? His second form is huge and muscled. His third looks very alien. Even in the last form he has a masculine form, though lean. And then he pumps up like a body builder on steroids. What part screamed woman to you. People really do like to neglect how much of this Freeza as a chick interpretation comes from the vocal performances and maybe some script choices. I've never seen this gender confusion about the character in sub circles.

The first time I ever saw Frie­za was in a magazine months before I saw the dub of that saga and I thought it was a girl until the article kept referring to him as "he" and "him."

Believe what you want to, but it's completely reasonable to believe in my mind that if they replaced the whole cast it would bomb in North America.

First off, Penguintruth's got a point, it didn't bomb after FUNi replaced the Ocean cast. So it'd still sell.
And Second, as much as some people want a Full recast, I don't think anybody is entertaining the notion that that will ACTUALLY Happen. Because it wont.

The reasonable people who realize how this works just want a few of the most mis-casted roles to be replaced. Like Freeza.

Are all the people citing the Ocean Cast change as a reason why dub fans wouldn't be put off completely ignoring the past 10 years just for the sake of their argument?

And see, this is one of the things I've spent the last several years trying to get across to people: You're not watching the original, you're watching the dub. They didn't say that in the original? So what. They didn't sound like that in the original? So what. It's not a big deal. I've dealt with it in other shows, myself. You hear and like the JP version a lot and that comes to be the version you expect... even when it's not what you're watching. I'm not saying that dubbers shouldn't take effort to be faithful to the original, I'm just saying that if you're watching a dub then don't expect the JP version of the show.

THIS.

THISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHISTHIS THIS (Kaioken x20)

I agreed with Gozar when it came to the script being the single biggest problem, but as everyone knows I'm of the mind that the cast has consistently proven over more than a decade that they simply can't do the characters justice.

My main problem with the FUNimation cast is that they are woeful character actors, the majority of them are only capable of forcing a one note character voice out, meaning whenever they actually have to emote they struggle to convey anything other than "I am this character happy, I am this character angry" a prime example would be Vegeta's dying speech in the re-dub, Sabat actually reverts almost to his speaking voice because he simply can't display any kind of emotional range while he's doing his Vegeta-that is flat out poor character acting.

I personally would love to see an entirely new cast, because FUNimation has proved they can produce some great dubs (I adore their One Piece dub) but so long as they rely on people who couldn't do their jobs 11 years ago (and have shown almost no improvement) I can't help but feel that the hamfisted tripe the cast has been coughing up for the last decade is going to impact the tone of the new dub- no matter how accurate the script may be.

I want grounded, believeable performances, that is what makes a characters endearing, not overstated one note caricatures that can't act even in a remotely convincing fashion, let alone actually make me care about them.

I'm curious: At what point did Vegeta EVER sound loike Chris Sabat talking during that scene? Because I'm sure as hell lost and I recently watched that scene and it just sounds like Vegeta in pain.