Sabat & Schemmel Video Interview

[B]

fans say this is a good thing, because now it's more like their version,

Correction: Because it's now the way the dub should be, and that means closer or as close as possible to the original material. A good dub is more of a "translation" than an "adaptation."

I think what he's trying to say is, why should that affect your enjoyment at all? "What I've been enjoying for the past 10 years isn't like some version of the show that I've never watched before and probably never will? FUCK THIS!"

Because conversations like this wouldn't exist if they had stayed in line with the original, possibly?

it's not a problem... Unless you're an American who wants to talk about Dragon Ball.

[Adamant]

This depends entirely on your point of view. What is wrong to you is not wrong to the vast majority of DBZ fans, who are fans of the dub.

That's not true, and you know that. The country you happen to live in is not the world, and "fans of the extremely reversionist American dub of the series" do absolutely not make up the majority of "Dragon Ball fans".

[jjgp1112]

This depends entirely on your point of view. What is wrong to you is not wrong to the vast majority of DBZ fans, who are fans of the dub.

That's not true, and you know that. The country you happen to live in is not the world, and "fans of the extremely reversionist American dub of the series" do absolutely not make up the majority of "Dragon Ball fans".

Umm...one would assume we're talking strictly in terms of america, considering Z Kai is an American release.

[Adamant]

That post wasn't even about "Z Kai" in the first place. One could "assume" he was talking about "Dragonball fans in the US" because that's where he's from, and people there have an annoying tendency to see themselves as the center of the world, but it's still not what he should have said.
The vast majority of Dragonball fans couldn't give two shits about any English dub conventions, and it is quite annoying to see fans of the US reversioned series describe it as "the normal version everyone likes except some few oddballs who like this other weird version for some reason".

[Strongbad456]

That post wasn't even about "Z Kai" in the first place. One could "assume" he was talking about "Dragonball fans in the US" because that's where he's from, and people there have an annoying tendency to see themselves as the center of the world, but it's still not what he should have said.
The vast majority of Dragonball fans couldn't give two shits about any English dub conventions, and it is quite annoying to see fans of the US reversioned series describe it as "the normal version everyone likes except some few oddballs who like this other weird version for some reason".

I'm almost positive Xyex was talking about in America and I agree, the dub fans are the majority in America. And you shouldn't be so annoyed just because he/she didn't include your country.

[G1Ravage]

Actually Kyle Hebert voiced him in Dragon Ball originally, but in Z it was Mark Britten for Season 3, and then Sabat for the rest of the series. For the Orange Bricks Kyle came in and redubbed all of Gyuumao's lines.

Don't forget, DBZ season 3 was dubbed before Dragon Ball was dubbed. So after the original Ocean voice of Dave Ward, Gyumao was voiced by Mark Britten in season 3, and then when Mark Britten left, Kyle Hebert took over, and then also got the role for Dragon Ball.

[DemonRin]

*Snipped for Epic Length*

Ok wait a moment. First off. you mention "The Lines you liked", I remember back a while ago, we had a typical dub Vs. sub argument, and when the sub fans went to the old standard "It's so different it's pretty much a whole different show", Jjgp and the other dubbies defended it by saying the lines "Weren't as different as [the sub fans] are making it out to be. It's still the same show".

Why does it matter if Vegeta says "It's over 8000" instead of "It's over 9000" so long as Sabat says it?
Why is it that all those years, the scripts were similar enough so that when we said it was a different show, you told us we were Crazy, but NOW, Now that the dub uses our script, SUDDENLY it IS a different show?! That's hypocrisy.

And as for the Voices, you REALLY haven't been paying attention have you? People HAVE been complaining about the voice cast changing in Japanese. There has been a HUGE change in the Japanese cast. While in America, a few voice actors have been changed completely, in Japan ALL the voice actors have changed by about 20 years. They're all older and several Japanese ver. fans haven't been happy about it. I personally don't think it sounds bad now, but I've seen plenty of complaints about Horikawa and Nozawa sounding noticeably different this time around. And one sentiment I DO mirror was Hiromi Tsuru (Bulma) sounds (At least in the beginning) like crap. She sounds like she's phoning in her performance, and it's not nice. Arguably, that's worse than the US replacement of Bulma. At least you guys knew she'd sound different going in, we went in expecting the same old Japanese Bulma and were met with an uninspiring bored sounding voice.
Trust me, we know where you're coming from.

And as for Freeza, well, of all the people I've talked to, a Freeza cast change seems to be the one thing that has a pretty large contingent of Dub fans who like the idea. I've spoken to SEVERAL Dub fans who like the recast, who WANT FUNi to be rid of Granny Freeza. What about them? Are they LESS of a dub fan for hating on Freeza's voice? Because I can think of SEVEN people, just off the top of my head, who greatly prefer the English dub, AND are happy Freeza's getting replaced. Are you saying they should just shut up and be happy with things as-is?

And then there's the old standard "Just shut up and stick to your Japanese version" argument. Dub fans just assume that we hate the English version BECAUSE it's English. I mean, how could we hate the dub you love unless we're just hating on it because it's not the Japanese version?!
Well I have news for you, a lot of us would LOVE to watch Dragon Ball in English, given a good English dub.

I haven't watched episodes 1-195 of One Piece in Japanese since the English dub DVDs have started. I love the One Piece dub and have been sticking to it like glue, it's so great. The funny thing about that? I SPEAK JAPANESE! I know this language, I watch my Dragon Boxes WITHOUT Subs. Despite this, I still enjoy watching well-dubbed anime in my native language.
I've been wanting and praying for a good Dragon Ball dub that I can actually get behind and enjoy for a while. From what we've seen and heard about Kai, FUNimation is FINALLY going to give that to me, and several like me I'm sure. Why should that be taken away from us?

Every time this debate happens, you dub fans fall back on "Your Japanese version is still there, you can watch it whenever you want".
Ok, Your Orange Bricks/Dragon Boxes are sitting on your shelf/In Wal-Mart right now. That version of the show is still there too, it isn't going anywhere, and it's the dub you like with all the things you like about it. Chain-smoking 4 year old Gohan, Grandma Freeza, and Over 9000 galore!
So stick to that, and let some of us be happy we're FINALLY gonna get a dub we can enjoy please.

[jjgp1112]

*Snipped for Epic Length*

Ok wait a moment. First off. you mention "The Lines you liked", I remember back a while ago, we had a typical dub Vs. sub argument, and when the sub fans went to the old standard "It's so different it's pretty much a whole different show", Jjgp and the other dubbies defended it by saying the lines "Weren't as different as [the sub fans] are making it out to be. It's still the same show".

Why does it matter if Vegeta says "It's over 8000" instead of "It's over 9000" so long as Sabat says it?
Why is it that all those years, the scripts were similar enough so that when we said it was a different show, you told us we were Crazy, but NOW, Now that the dub uses our script, SUDDENLY it IS a different show?! That's hypocrisy.

Wait a minute, fill me in: when were dub fans complaining about anything about the Kai dub related to the script outside of certain names and meme-riffic lines? You seemed to have created that situation out of thin air for the sake of the argument.

[SaiyamanMS]

Xyex brought lines up in his massive wall of text. Personally, I'm a fan who enjoys both the English dub and Japanese original.

And well... I will admit to a certain degree I miss a few certain lines ("Has anyone seen my arm? You can't miss it! IT'S GREEN!!" was always a favourite of mine), I approve of all the changes made to Kai's dub. A dub should be accurate and not be filled with constant random bullshit that's been made up. (And not just for Dragon Ball. For anything. I'm lookin' at you 4Kids!)

As for recasts, I never cared much for Tiffany Vollmer's voice, so I'm glad to have a new Bulma. Also while she may have done the Cell arc well, Nadolny's Gohan never managed to pass as a convincing four ("and a half") year old. I never had any major beef with Young's Freeza, but I always believed that the character could have been cast much better than that and now he has.

[Xyex]

Wow, sounds like I hit a nerve.

Why is it that all those years, the scripts were similar enough so that when we said it was a different show, you told us we were Crazy, but NOW, Now that the dub uses our script, SUDDENLY it IS a different show?! That's hypocrisy.

No, that's you putting words in my mouth, as that is not what I (or anyone else here) has said. I never said a damned thing about it being a different show.

And as for the Voices, you REALLY haven't been paying attention have you?

I have, actually. You just utterly missed the point I was making.

From what we've seen and heard about Kai, FUNimation is FINALLY going to give that to me, and several like me I'm sure. Why should that be taken away from us?

And once more we see the "who cares if THOUSANDS of other people like it! It should be changed for ME. Because I'm ME!" statement. And, of course, what I was actually saying is ignored, in favor of something that can be whined about.

Every time this debate happens, you dub fans fall back on "Your Japanese version is still there, you can watch it whenever you want".
Ok, Your Orange Bricks/Dragon Boxes are sitting on your shelf/In Wal-Mart right now. That version of the show is still there too, it isn't going anywhere, and it's the dub you like with all the things you like about it. Chain-smoking 4 year old Gohan, Grandma Freeza, and Over 9000 galore!

This... is just pathetic. That's about all I can say for it, as it's so far off the point (not to mention being, at least in part, something that I already mentioned).

So stick to that, and let some of us be happy we're FINALLY gonna get a dub we can enjoy please.

Double standards, much? Anytime anyone on this board even hints at liking the FUNi dub anymore, I see at least three posts effectively calling them idiots. And no, you can't claim that's not you, or you wouldn't have used "Chain-smoking 4 year old Gohan, Grandma Freeza" in the above section. Pot, kettle.

But ignoring that, where exactly did I say you can't be happy with, or enjoy the new dub? Where did I say that new Freeza was a very bad thing, or that FUNi was ruining Dragonball (an argument I've seen a lot over the last ten years in reference to their dub, mind), or... well, anything that you're currently bitching about?

No, you know what? This isn't worth wasting any more of my time. Though it is a prime example of the problem I was talking about. The actual content of a post being ignored just to give an excuse to whine.

[Kaboom]

Anytime anyone on this board even hints at liking the FUNi dub anymore, I see at least three posts effectively calling them idiots. And no, you can't claim that's not you, or you wouldn't have used "Chain-smoking 4 year old Gohan, Grandma Freeza" in the above section. Pot, kettle.

That looks to me like a criticism of the dub itself to me, not its fans.

Let's not let ANOTHER thread spiral into pointless hostility due to selective hearing, please. Everybody.

[DemonRin]

No, that's you putting words in my mouth, as that is not what I (or anyone else here) has said. I never said a damned thing about it being a different show.

It really comes down to the exact same thing as with sub fans. To the vast majority of Z fans the dub is Dragonball. How many of you sub fans would have liked it if the JP version of Kai did the exact same thing as the English dub is doing?

I took this ^ As you saying that the dub IS Dragon Ball, and changing it makes it a different show. My Mistake maybe.

And as for the Voices, you REALLY haven't been paying attention have you?

I have, actually. You just utterly missed the point I was making.

How did I miss the point?
Your point was "You sub fans get to keep the voices you like for the main characters, while we're getting changes"

I was simply saying that if you think we got the EXACT same voices from Z, you weren't paying attention. There have been several complaints about Nozawa and Horikaway sounding noticeably older, as well as the complaints about Tsuru being terrible this time around. True, it's not a complete casting change, but it is a very noticeable change in the voices we all remember.

And once more we see the "who cares if THOUSANDS of other people like it! It should be changed for ME. Because I'm ME!" statement. And, of course, what I was actually saying is ignored, in favor of something that can be whined about.

You are falling into the exact same fallacy you claim I'm making. You assume that the people who agree with YOU far outnumber the "Several like me" I made sure to mention who would ENJOY a good DBK Dub.
I'm rather sure that if you factor in the sub fans who've wanted to see a good dub, the Dub fans who legitimately believed a few of the voice replacements were a good idea, and the group of dub fans who are indifferent to the changes and still enjoy it despite them, that total group VASTLY outnumbers the contingent of Dub fans who are greatly put off by Gohan Bulma and Freeza having different voices.

Double standards, much? Anytime anyone on this board even hints at liking the FUNi dub anymore, I see at least three posts effectively calling them idiots. And no, you can't claim that's not you, or you wouldn't have used "Chain-smoking 4 year old Gohan, Grandma Freeza" in the above section. Pot, kettle.

I don't think I've ever called you an Idiot or said one who likes the FUNi dub is an idiot, now YOU'RE putting words in MY mouth.
I call him "Chain-smoking 4 year old Gohan" and "Grandma Freeza" to criticize the dub itself. Just like you dub fans often say "Goku sounds like a girl in Japanese".
Well, in the old dub, to me, Gohan sounds like he's been smoking 3 packs a day since he was 6 months old, and Freeza sounds like an Old Lady. I'm sorry, but if the dub fanbase is gonna throw out the "Goku sounds like a girl" complaint at the Japanese ver., you guys need to suck it up and let us make similar criticisms of the dub.


The fact is, I very much enjoy the changes being made and, for the first time, I can't WAIT to watch Dragon Ball Dubbed.
So I'm just gonna enjoy a good dub of this show for a change.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Wow, sounds like I hit a nerve.

Well, you did say dub.

So stick to that, and let some of us be happy we're FINALLY gonna get a dub we can enjoy please.

Who's "we"? Because the majority of American/Australian fans already enjoy the dub.

From what we've seen and heard about Kai, FUNimation is FINALLY going to give that to me, and several like me I'm sure. Why should that be taken away from us?

Several. Note the word several. Not a massive pre-existing fanbase.

[DemonRin]

From what we've seen and heard about Kai, FUNimation is FINALLY going to give that to me, and several like me I'm sure. Why should that be taken away from us?

Several. Note the word several. Not a massive pre-existing fanbase.

You seem to have missed the part in my most recent post where I already addressed that.

I'm rather sure that if you factor in the sub fans who've wanted to see a good dub, the Dub fans who legitimately believed a few of the voice replacements were a good idea, and the group of dub fans who are indifferent to the changes and still enjoy it despite them, that total group VASTLY outnumbers the contingent of Dub fans who are greatly put off by Gohan Bulma and Freeza having different voices.

Bolded the most important part.

The casual fans far outweigh the Hardcore sub and dub fans combined. They were perfectly willing to have cropped footage, and I've known several who watched with the 5.1 "Dub with Japanese score" track who didn't even notice the music was different or didn't care enough to switch the track.

Those casual fans far outweigh us, and those casual fans won't care about the voice replacements nearly as much as the hardcore dub fans do.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Most Dragon Ball fans in America are dub fans and like Faulconer's score. Look no further than YouTube for proof of this.

[Gaffer Tape]

So stick to that, and let some of us be happy we're FINALLY gonna get a dub we can enjoy please.

Who's "we"? Because the majority of American/Australian fans already enjoy the dub.

Then keep watching it.

I really don't get this. I agree with DemonRin. In essence, this is exactly the same scenario as the Japanese Kai is to the original DBZ. I can't consider myself a huge fan of Kai. I prefer Z. A lot of the things I liked about the original show are different. Some of the voices are different, and there's an entirely new musical score. Compare that to the NA scene: some of the voices are different, and there's an entirely new script. Yet I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it. When Kai does something really good, I watch with interest and applaud. When it does something bad, I shake my head and groan. But in the end, I really don't care. Kai can do whatever it wants. It can paint away wounds. It can change every other voice from here on out. It can replace every piece of animation with reanimated feces. They can insert random J-pop idols in place of the main characters. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter to me. Why? I have my Dragon Boxes. The DBZ that I love isn't going anywhere. Suzuoki Hirotaka is always going to be Tenshinhan.

And, guess what? It's the same thing with the dub! If you love Linda Young as Freeza and Stephanie Nadolny as Gohan, more power to you! Nobody's taking that away from you! You love the scripting and the Bruce Faulconer music? They're not going anywhere either! The dub of Z that you love is also not going anywhere. So just because Kai (a new show) is doing something different (with an old show) what's there to complain about?

Most Dragon Ball fans in America are dub fans and like Faulconer's score. Look no further than YouTube for proof of this.

Is that really the type of reference pool you want to associate yourself with? Or should I say 'is dat rilly da frienz ur hangin out wit?'

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Then keep watching it.

I'm not personally a dub fan, but the majority of English speaking fans are.

[Gaffer Tape]

Thanks for reading my first sentence and completely ignoring the rest. Sigh. Fine. I know that you're not a DBZ dub fan. I'll restate.

"Fine. Then dub fans can keep watching that."

Now you may continue.

[DemonRin]

Most Dragon Ball fans in America are dub fans and like Faulconer's score. Look no further than YouTube for proof of this.

Yes, because Youtube truly is the most accurate voice of the huddled masses.

The point of what I said wasn't "Who likes what score", Kai has no Faulconer track at all, so that's entirely a moot point.
The point was "The majority are Casual fans who don't care so much about details."

That's why the Orange Bricks sold like hotcakes despite being cropped into widescreen with horrid video quality on the more aged episodes.

"Casual" fans won't care enough to bitch. They'll watch it, see that Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, Yamucha and "Tien" sound perfectly right, and will be right as rain with it.

And they far outweigh either Sub or Hardcore dub contingents.

[jjgp1112]

Most Dragon Ball fans in America are dub fans and like Faulconer's score. Look no further than YouTube for proof of this.

Yes, because Youtube truly is the most accurate voice of the huddled masses.

The point of what I said wasn't "Who likes what score", Kai has no Faulconer track at all, so that's entirely a moot point.
The point was "The majority are Casual fans who don't care so much about details."

That's why the Orange Bricks sold like hotcakes despite being cropped into widescreen with horrid video quality on the more aged episodes.

"Casual" fans won't care enough to bitch. They'll watch it, see that Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, Yamucha and "Tien" sound perfectly right, and will be right as rain with it.

And they far outweigh either Sub or Hardcore dub contingents.

Sure, YouTube may not be a good gauge for intelligence, but you can generally tell what's popular through there.