Why do game developers hate the Buu arc?

[Vegeta Jr]

Buu saga repeated several elements in the same arc, fusion? you get four, absorption? you get a lot, Goku showing off and then deciding to let someone else get the glory? at least twice, Villain changing form but basically looking exactly the same? check.

I could go on if you wish.

I only count two fusions, three with Kibito/Kaioshin. Goku showing off and letting someone else get the glory happens once; as soon as he comes back to life, he's all business.

Also, the Freeza arc has desperately beaten characters being miraculously saved by a newly trained Goku no less than three damn times. It's the exact same scenario each time.

Fusion:
1. Kibitoshin
2. Gotenks
3. Vegetto
4. Elder Kai

They had no need to use 1 and 4 to explain the Potaro fusion, one would suffice.

Goku letting someone else have a go:
1. Gotenks
2. Vegeta

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

All of the BT games also suffered horribly from trying to do too much at once. It took them until BT3 to even make a game as good as the original Budokai.

Bullshit. Budokai 1 was about as complex as picking up your action figures and smacking them together.

It's still more complex than BT3. All you need to push in BT3 to win a fight is square, over and over. You try that in Bduokai 1 and you'll get your ass kicked.

Honestly, why does everyone say that? BT3 isn't the most complex of fighters, but it's not a downright button-masher. If you button-mash or press square repeatedly in BT3, you'll get your ass handed to you. Budokai 1 was a really simplistic fighter, both in graphics and in gameplay.

[Xyex]

That was absolutely beautiful Cipher.

I dare you to try and fight me by pressing one button over and over in that game. For a brief period of time, that game was real popular around my apartment complex. I have fought a lot of button mashers in my day. I'm well equipped to handle it.

Kind of a shame the AI isn't if you manage to get behind them.

(That's not to say the Budokai AI isn't as dumb as a sack of bricks too.)

Yeah. 9 times out of 10, if you get into Sparking! mode with an infinite-attacker and get behind the computer, you can wail on them until Sparking! mode expires, even on Very Hard. And the computer will use its strongest super move 9 times out of 10, even if that move is a rush attack and its fighting a giant.

B3's AI wasn't perfect but at least it was somewhat intelligent.

Honestly, why does everyone say that? BT3 isn't the most complex of fighters, but it's not a downright button-masher. If you button-mash or press square repeatedly in BT3, you'll get your ass handed to you.

Maybe because it's true? I button mash all the time, against Very Hard CPU opponents, often with better Potara set-ups than me, and I win. All the time. I have never once had my 'ass handed to me' in BT3. The only instances where I have any trouble are against Walls or the (somewhat frequent) occasions where the game forgets to track hit detection for my character. (I have seen my character's fists literally go through the CPU's body and not do any damage.)

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Maybe because it's true? I button mash all the time, against Very Hard CPU opponents, often with better Potara set-ups than me, and I win. All the time. I have never once had my 'ass handed to me' in BT3. The only instances where I have any trouble are against Walls or the (somewhat frequent) occasions where the game forgets to track hit detection for my character. (I have seen my character's fists literally go through the CPU's body and not do any damage.)

Really? If you can just button-mash and still win against very hard leveled opponents, I honestly don't think we're playing the same game.

[Taku128]

I won every fight in BT3 by following a pattern that went something like fly away, charge, super attack, repeat. In Infinite World on the other hand, to beat every mission on Z difficulty I had to actually learn how to play the game, otherwise the CPU would cancel combo the shit out of me.

[Rory]

..I've noticed a pattern here. While I (and anybody else) can tear the Sparking! series to shreds, Sparking! fans can only seem to rip on the original Budokai. I wonder why this is.
Seems to be a classic case of "You hate our series, so we need to hate SOMETHING about your series."

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

..I've noticed a pattern here. While I (and anybody else) can tear the Sparking! series to shreds, Sparking! fans can only seem to rip on the original Budokai. I wonder why this is.

You're seriously basing that claim on this one thread. I personally liked Budokai 1, it was leagues better than Budokai 3. Story mode was better, graphics were better, no Dragon Rush or Hyper Mode etc.



Also, why do you use the Japanese name for the Tenkaichi series and the English name for the Budokai series?

[Rory]

Also, why do you use the Japanese name for the Tenkaichi series and the English name for the Budokai series?

3 reasons.

1) It's confusing to say "Dragon Ball Z " series, because the title is so vauge I could be on about anything, and it could easily be mis-interpreted to me talking about the series in general, instead of the game.

2) I own the Budokai series (PAL), and I own the Sparking! series (NTSC-J). I own the Japanese versions of "Budokai Tenkaichi" because the music was changed, and I prefer the original BGM, while for the Budokai series, the changes were so minor, I'd rather save my import money for something more major.

3) I loathe the title "Budokai Tenkaichi" (and especially how it's pronounced by the majority of it's fans), because it's so fucking wrong, it actually irritates me to read it. If the words were flipped, it wouldn't be so bad, it'd still be a pointless name change, but not so offensively wrong.

As for what else you said, yeah, I'm basing that all on this thread, because everything else people seem to complain about the Budokai series is so petty, I can hardly be bothered commenting anymore.

[Rocketman]

..I've noticed a pattern here. While I (and anybody else) can tear the Sparking! series to shreds, Sparking! fans can only seem to rip on the original Budokai. I wonder why this is. :roll:

You block out criticisms of Budokai 3 because you refuse to accept that it sucked because IT R BEST GAEM EVUR?


It's shit criticism anyway. You beat BT3 by mashing Square, whoop-de-fuckin-do. I beat SDBZ by smackin' R1 around (got a perfect as ChiChi vs Cyborg Freeza, as a matter of fact). Budokai 1-3 fall before PPPPE. Soul Calibyr, mash throw. Yadda yadda yadda.

[Innagadadavida]

I like Budokai Tenkaichi 3 because after a year or so of playing, I'm still finding combo branches that I didn't know existed.

[Blue]

It's shit criticism anyway. You beat BT3 by mashing Square, whoop-de-fuckin-do. I beat SDBZ by smackin' R1 around (got a perfect as ChiChi vs Cyborg Freeza, as a matter of fact). Budokai 1-3 fall before PPPPE. Soul Calibyr, mash throw. Yadda yadda yadda.

Spam Hadoken in Street Fighter...use Eddy Gordo in Tekken, you make a good point. The thing is when you turn up the difficultly cheap tactics shouldn't work anymore and the computer should hand your ass to you. DBZ fighting games in general don't get this.

[Xyex]

You block out criticisms of Budokai 3 because you refuse to accept that it sucked because IT R BEST GAEM EVUR?

The main B3 complaint is "I suck at avoiding Hyper Mode" so... I don't really see the comparison. No, it wasn't a perfect game, but the controls were better those of the BT series, as were the graphics and the game play, and they didn't have a bajillion copies of the same character who's only differences were (occasionally) slightly modified movesets.

[Rocketman]

No, it wasn't a perfect game, but the controls were better those of the BT series, as were the graphics and the game play, and they didn't have a bajillion copies of the same character who's only differences were (occasionally) slightly modified movesets.

B3 was not as fun as BT3. Therefore it is a worse game.

[Rory]

B3 was not as fun as BT3. Therefore it is a worse game.

The most subjective opinion on this discussion yet.
I know you aren't taking it too seriously, but c'mon, at least try.

[Taku128]

I love how passionate people are about their shitty DBZ fighting games. I know I even contributed to it a little bit, but can't you guys go make a topic about Budokai vs Sparking to argue in instead of shitting up this one?

[jjgp1112]

I found the BT games way to easy to play. All I had to do in those games was endlessly press square to kick my opponent's asses. It actually took me a while to do anything useful in the 3 Budokai games, but in the BT games, as soon as I learned what buttons do what, I was pretty much an expert.

And as Rory said: The Buu arc is skipped because it sucks. Period .

[Cipher]

I just have to ask a question of all who staunchly defend the Budokai series over Sparking!, not that I really care either way. It's obvious that you're into actual, balanced fighting mechanics the Budokai series somewhat touts. So, why not just go play an actual fighting game, which pulls off those classic elements in spades? Why the perpetual shouting matches about how one DBZ series is better for approximating something a million non-DBZ do far more competently? Sparking! isn't trying to do the standard fighting routine. If that's not your thing, cool. But I don't compare, like, Need for Speed to Mario Kart. And if I really hated Mario Kart for being a crazy item spam fest, I'd probably just go play an actual racing game. (Not the greatest analogy, but whatever.)

[Rory]

It's obvious that you're into actual, balanced fighting mechanics the Budokai series somewhat touts. So, why not just go play an actual fighting game, which pulls off those classic elements in spades? Why the perpetual shouting matches about how one DBZ series is better for approximating something a million non-DBZ do far more competently?

Implying I don't also play Street Fighter, King of Fighters, and Darkstalkers (old game, but a classic).

I don't rip on the Sparking! series because it's not a traditional fighting games, I rip on them because they're all poorly made games, which need more development time. They look ugly, are needlessly complex, and just reek of low production value. They add barely anything to each continuation of the series, except perhaps a few characters and..

..Whoa, did anybody else just get Deja Vu?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

They look ugly, are needlessly complex, and just reek of low production value.

Hang on a minute. "Needlessly complex"? But you're the one going on about how the games are so simple and that "you can just press square over and over to win".

[Xyex]

I just have to ask a question of all who staunchly defend the Budokai series over Sparking!, not that I really care either way. It's obvious that you're into actual, balanced fighting mechanics the Budokai series somewhat touts. So, why not just go play an actual fighting game, which pulls off those classic elements in spades? Why the perpetual shouting matches about how one DBZ series is better for approximating something a million non-DBZ do far more competently? Sparking! isn't trying to do the standard fighting routine. If that's not your thing, cool. But I don't compare, like, Need for Speed to Mario Kart. And if I really hated Mario Kart for being a crazy item spam fest, I'd probably just go play an actual racing game. (Not the greatest analogy, but whatever.)

Except that I do play Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Caliber, King of Fighters, Guilty Gear, etc. And Budokai being better than the BT games has nothing to do with it using 'traditional' fighting game mechanics. I've wanted something BT styled since the first time I played Zone of the Enders. I just wanted it to be well made, too. Also, the implication that if I like A I can't also like B is ludicrous. To go with your racing game analogy, I equally enjoy Need For Speed, R: Racing Evolution, the old Daytona 500 arcade games, Mario Kart, Star Wars Pod Racer, Beetle Adventure Racing, and so on.

The reason I like the Budokai games over the BT game is that the Budokai games are just better. Better controls, better graphics, better sound, more than 5 playable characters, and just better all around. If I all I wanted was traditional fighting mechanics in my DB game SDBZ would be my favorite, instead of second favorite.

They look ugly, are needlessly complex, and just reek of low production value.

Hang on a minute. "Needlessly complex"? But you're the one going on about how the games are so simple and that "you can just press square over and over to win".

I'm pretty sure he's not talking about actual battle complexity, as such a thing doesn't exist, but requiring you to push a dozen buttons to do various things. Like requiring you to push 3 buttons just to use a super, and having no other means of using the super. Or 3 buttons to switch characters in a team battle. Stupid things like that that could have been accomplished in far more logical and intuitive ways.