Breaking Point

[Super Sonic]

RE: Super Sonic

I admit that's the kind of attitude I don't especially appreciate: that people who prefer to watch anime in Japanese is because of some holy devotion to the Land of the Rising Sun, and that every other country or language is somehow inferior.

I have never ran into a genuine case of this in my over decade long anime fandom.

I have, however, been accused of being that, several times. It's a stupid, stupid accusation that comes from people who have NO argument.

"You only like the Japanese version because GRORIOUS NIPPON, lol."

This is the reason a lot of anime fans are so hateful towards Japan itself, because they feel like they have to overcompensate for loving Japanese cartoons. They'll go out of their way to say things anti-Japanese and say, "Well, I like their cartoons, but it's a shitty country." It's like somebody's going to revoke their American citizenship if they prefer something Japanese. They're trying WAY too hard to be objective that they go too far the other way. This is the average 4channer.

Everyone's become paranoid they will be accused of being a "weeaboo". I call it "anime fan guilt".

While know guys who are obsessed with Japan, was thinking less of weeaboos and more these people. Know they pop up whenever a comic book movie comes out, and a bit in anime circles regarding languages too.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Oyi, the irony.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Oyi, the irony.

I was about to say...

Also, thank you Super for reminding me how amazing Animaniacs is. Been too long for me and that series.

[Chuquita]

If I didn't have to get to sleep really soon, I'd probably check out two or three more Animaniacs clips after seeing that one you linked to; that was a great show. :3

And it boggles my mind to imagine the internet co-existing at the same time that show did. Even though I know the internet was around back then, several more years would pass before there'd be a computer in my home and the only ones I knew of were either in school or at the library.

What was the internet like in 1994?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But yeah, the idea of wanting voiceovers in your own language when watching foreign entertainment has always struck me as really weird. It's okay if you're 5 years old and unable to read subtitles, but the idea of a grown ass man preferring, or even demanding, that a German movie he's watching has some random local actors talking over the original performance so he doesn't have to listen to all this weird non-English talking is... xenophobic. Disrespectful. Childish. Elitist, even.

Here we go again. The "you can't read/you're a xenophobe" argument. It's pretty much inevitable in a thread about dubs. I don't know what a "grown ass man" is, but there's nothing childish or disrespectful with watching something in your native language if you have a choice to.


Also, "random local actors"? It's not as if Masako Nozawa is a household name. I'd say she's only slightly more well known than Sean Schemmel.

[JulieYBM]

But yeah, the idea of wanting voiceovers in your own language when watching foreign entertainment has always struck me as really weird. It's okay if you're 5 years old and unable to read subtitles, but the idea of a grown ass man preferring, or even demanding, that a German movie he's watching has some random local actors talking over the original performance so he doesn't have to listen to all this weird non-English talking is... xenophobic. Disrespectful. Childish. Elitist, even.

Here we go again. The "you can't read/you're a xenophobe" argument. It's pretty much inevitable in a thread about dubs. I don't know what a "grown ass man" is, but there's nothing childish or disrespectful with watching something in your native language if you have a choice to.


Also, "random local actors"? It's not as if Masako Nozawa is a household name. I'd say she's only slightly more well known than Sean Schemmel.

In Japan? Nozawa is big poop, at least she was in the eighties, if we are to believe Toriyama's comments.

Not to mention she's on screen in commercials and on variety shows.

[CODii]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

You can focus more on the animation. There.

[penguintruth]

Also, "random local actors"? It's not as if Masako Nozawa is a household name. I'd say she's only slightly more well known than Sean Schemmel.

Masako Nozawa played main character Tetsuro in the beloved anime classic, Galaxy Express 999, before Toriyama even started his Dr. Slump manga. She was once even the voice of Doraemon. So it's safe to say she's been a household name in Japan for decades, and was known well before she was Goku. Most people have to be reminded who Sean Schemmel is, due to his lack of prolificness. Nozawa's been a lot more visable, too.

[CODii]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

You can focus more on the animation. There.

What on Earth does that mean? You're telling me you're not capable of reading subtitles and watching the image at the same time?

[penguintruth]

I don't think it's wrong to prefer watching something in your own language, that's only natural. Nor do I think it's quite fair to accuse somebody who dislikes reading subtitles of being "lazy" per se. I do think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say something like, "I want to watch my anime, not read it" and the like. Reading subtitles become like second nature after a little while.

The reason why English dubs exist at all is because people prefer to watch things in their own language. They're a great marketing tool.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

What on Earth does that mean?

Exactly what you think it does. It takes you about half a second to a second to read the subtitles, depending on their length. That really adds up when you consider how much dialogue there is in a series.

You're telling me you're not capable of reading subtitles and watching the image at the same time?

Well, I can't focus on the whole image whilst reading subtitles.

I don't think it's wrong to prefer watching something in your own language, that's only natural. Nor do I think it's quite fair to accuse somebody who dislikes reading subtitles of being "lazy" per se. I do think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say something like, "I want to watch my anime, not read it" and the like. Reading subtitles become like second nature after a little while.

The reason why English dubs exist at all is because people prefer to watch things in their own language. They're a great marketing tool.

We finally agree on something, Mr. Truth.

[SonEric84]

I don't think it's wrong to prefer watching something in your own language, that's only natural. Nor do I think it's quite fair to accuse somebody who dislikes reading subtitles of being "lazy" per se. I do think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say something like, "I want to watch my anime, not read it" and the like. Reading subtitles become like second nature after a little while.

The reason why English dubs exist at all is because people prefer to watch things in their own language. They're a great marketing tool.

Agreed. I'm all for subs and sticking to the original version of something, but sometimes it's nice to be able to watch a show and do other things, and if Japanese isn't your native language, obviously you can't do that. I also like to compare voices and see how faithful the dubbing is, etc. To accuse every single person who prefers to watch a dub of laziness/ignorance is just a little ridiculous. Does that mean we all have to learn Japanese before we can read manga anymore? C'mon.

I enjoy watching things in their own language because not only is it the "true" version of the series, but I also like to experience the different cultural aspects of foreign shows/films. I like to learn about their way of speech, style of humor, etc. At the same time though, I also enjoy a few dubs. There are a few instances (though rare in my experience), where dubs improve slightly upon an already great idea (e.g. without changing the story or character's personality).

[Sshadow5001]

Probably when I started watching the Dragonbox's and decided I wantet do watch it all as it was originaly intended and know 100% exactly what was being said. I havent watched "Dragonball" in japanese yet though because I quite like the Dubbing.

[Super Sonic]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

You can focus more on the animation. There.

What on Earth does that mean? You're telling me you're not capable of reading subtitles and watching the image at the same time?

Don't know about him, but when I'm eating I can't. Hence why I've only watched "His and Her Circumstances" in English mainly. Everytime I stopped to watch that show was when I was eating.

On topic of language origins, sometimes it's a matter of liking humor in how some things were dubbed. Know/heard a few guys who don't like the Funimation dub of DBZ say they can only watch Speed Racer, 1970s rap group inspiring kung fu movies, and Godzilla and other giant radioactive monster movies dubbed.

[Savage68]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

You can focus more on the animation. There.

What on Earth does that mean? You're telling me you're not capable of reading subtitles and watching the image at the same time?

I don't understand how you're so flabbergasted by everything he's saying here.

You cannot focus 100% on a TV show if you're constantly splitting your attention into fractions by glancing to the bottom of your screen, reading lines of text. I consider myself to be a damn proficient reader, and have no problems admitting that watching DBZ dubbed is much more of a straight shoot than watching it with subtitles, though I prefer the latter for subjective reasons. And as a guy that likes to eat, I'm obliged to agree with Super Sonic's above post.

[JulieYBM]

You obtain the knack for reading subs quickly and making incredible use of your ears to understand to the series through the audio. Most of the dialogue in Dragon Ball is written while characters are stationary, as it is.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

No it's cool, just totally ignore my post and continue to spark a battle that will result in the locking of this thread. Something I'd personally find annoying because his blog has become very entertaining. If you don't love the dub, that's totally fine but please don't make comments like this. You are entitled to your personal preference and opinion but honestly saying "if you don't watch it in Japanese, your ignorant and lazy" just comes off as rude and disrespectful to those whose preferences may be different to yours.

Also Gozar, I agree with you on watching Nozawa grow up as Goku helping to ease you into the adult voice. I had a negative reaction when I first heard Nozawa as Adult Goku. When I heard her as Kid Goku and then watched the progression I think it's more fitting; It also works the same way with Gohan. Really my only problem with her now a days is that she is the voice of the whole Son family(excluding chi-chi). I get the reasoning behind it but it's scenes where Adult Gohan and Goku are together that really bug me. I have the same problem when Vegeta and Piccolo are together in the Dub. I guess it takes getting use to but if my brain knows they are the same people I lose track on whats going on and only focus on the voices and how they are the same.

[BluezaBladeNZ]

When watching it subbed, it can get a bit distracting if you've focused on another thing, though it really doesn't bother me. Whenever I have a session, I usually pause it when something else is going on so I'm not missing anything. Thankfully I can focus on the subtitles as well as the video since it takes me a split-second to read and then focus on the video while memorising what they said.

But back to the topic, I think it was around the time where I got the Orange Bricks. I had randomly turned on the subtitles to see what it was like and I was surprised by how different it was. While reading them, I started to get more disturbed by the dub, even more in places where an absurd amount of talking occurred while the subtitles were blank. I wanted to switch to the Japanese track but I didn't have all the sets back then so I couldn't watch it completely. Before I got the Dragon Boxes for Z, I had watched all the movies and Dragon Ball in Japanese and loved it a whole lot better. For Z, I had waited till I finished the entire series with the dub + Kikuchi's score. I started on the japanese version a while after that, though because of the missing opening credits and previews as well as the other things on the Orange Bricks, watching it felt kind of awkward. I then started to watch it when I got the Dragon Boxes and is now my preferred version. So long story short, it was around when I started getting the Orange Bricks.

But my love for the dub hasn't completely diminished, I still watch the Ocean Dub for episodes 1-53 and movies 1-3 from time to time and I'm still awaiting to fully see the dub for Kai (only seen a few episodes).

[Kendamu]

I cannot think of a single reason to watch a dub besides laziness or ignorance. I have yet to find an argument in favor of dubbing that can't be boiled down to one of these two things.

Wait. So I'm lazy and ignorant (and possibly xenophobic) for genuinely enjoying the Cowboy Bebop dub? Except for a few key moments where Engrish plays a part in the enjoyment of the show, I'm perfectly happy watching it either way. I have similar feelings about Dragonball Kai, Gundam Unicorn, Desert Punk, Gurren Lagann, Lupin the 3rd, etc. Why do you even have such a strong opinion on how other people such as myself watch foreign stuff, anyway? It's none of your damn business how I watch TV in the privacy of my home, anyway.

Now I have to get back to laying around naked in my recliner made of peanut brittle and thumbtacks. I'm gonna watch Fight Club in Portugese without subtitles while taking shots of bubble bath and gargling every time Edward Norton makes a reference to those body part articles, Bob's manboobs, or his inability to sleep. If I get lucky, I won't lose my rollerskates in the process. That would be a Home Run, afterall, and we can't have that.