I agree with most of that, although I've recently altered my opinion to believe that alive Saiyans, like Vegeta, could probably reach SS3 if they trained hard enough, but it's much easier to do so dead. By the time of Gokuu and Vegeta's final battle in DBO, Gokuu had reduced some of the strain on SS3 and Vegeta had reached SS3. And I disagree with the theory of SS3 being an incomplete and "haxed" method of trying for SS4's power, because I thought that SS4 isn't really related to the previous SS forms, as it originates from a combination of SS and Oozaru, isn't just another transformation stacked upon regular SS and is only even named "Super Saiyan 4" out of convenience.Kaboom wrote:Here's the way I've taken to thinking of the forms lately.
Super Saiyan is the "main" part of the transformation. In a way it's the most special because it's the foundation upon which the others are built. In order to do so properly and effectively, though, you've got to make that foundation solid. Mastering the form and gaining "Full-Power Super Saiyan" is doing so, which allows you to reach Super Saiyan 2. Trying to stack up more power before mastering it gets you the flawed "grades" forms instead.
Super Saiyan 2 is just a super-charged version of the first form. It's adding power done right. Personally, I think it probably re-introduces the restlessness that comes with an un-mastered Super Saiyan, but it might be too high-powered to train in order to make that similarly go away. SSj2 represents the peak of a "normal" Saiyan's power.
Super Saiyan 3 is an unnatural power that a regular Saiyan shouldn't even be capable of. That's why you can only use it effectively when you're already dead or are some sort of other magically-created being like a Fusion. It's also why a regular living and non-magic guy like Vegeta, despite training his ass off and being only a step behind Goku power-wise, didn't even seem to be aware of its existence, unlike with how he could already "see beyond Super Saiyan" back when he was first striving towards the Grades. On top of all this, I still also like the theory I talked about where Super Saiyan 3 is an incomplete and "haxed" method of trying for Super Saiyan 4's power.
I don't believe you can reach the "peak" of a "normal" Saiyan's power, since DB taught us that there are no limits. Characters always seemingly reach a wall of unbelievable power that even shocks them, only to break through it yet again and reach another unparalleled level of strength.
@rereboy: I don't think you should simply discard a non-contradictory and perfectly valid statement from the Daizenshuu just because you don't agree with it. I'll just re-post something I aforementioned in this thread.
Or, as Bussani said, Gokuu was just relying on Gohan to defeat Cell with his hidden power anyway. Or perhaps he had an inkling that Cell wasn't using his full power and that if he used SSG2, then Cell would just power up to adjust himself to Gokuu's level and perhaps beat his ass. But even Vegeta and Trunks (who may or may not have mastered SS yet, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms I'd rather not open) still only used SS against the Cell Juniors.Piccolo Daimao wrote:It would be much more harmful for Goku to go SSG2 and unload a bunch of ki trying to wipe out Cell with a Kamehameha, only for him to come back mostly fresh and subsequently Goku get his worn-out ass spanked even worse than before, rather than Goku use much less ki to destroy Cell, who'd still come back, but Goku would still have enough ki left in reserve to hold his own against Cell.
