How the hell do we know that Goku only did mountain training? How do we know what kind of training did he follow? There are zero indications about what kind of training Goku & Vegeta did, while we have indications on Goku's (and probably Vegeta's) power. Vegeta can do training in Gravidy room, and Goku could always go to Heaven through Sunkan-ido, to train with Kaio.Kaboom wrote:(400x stronger from 10 years of MOUNTAIN TRAINING)
End of Z Goku.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: End of Z Goku.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: End of Z Goku.
How in the hell would training in heaven help when he's not dead?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How the hell do we know that Goku only did mountain training? How do we know what kind of training did he follow? There are zero indications about what kind of training Goku & Vegeta did, while we have indications on Goku's (and probably Vegeta's) power. Vegeta can do training in Gravidy room, and Goku could always go to Heaven through Sunkan-ido, to train with Kaio.Kaboom wrote:(400x stronger from 10 years of MOUNTAIN TRAINING)
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: End of Z Goku.
Since when did it matter if someone is alive or dead to train in Heaven?Saiga wrote:How in the hell would training in heaven help when he's not dead?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How the hell do we know that Goku only did mountain training? How do we know what kind of training did he follow? There are zero indications about what kind of training Goku & Vegeta did, while we have indications on Goku's (and probably Vegeta's) power. Vegeta can do training in Gravidy room, and Goku could always go to Heaven through Sunkan-ido, to train with Kaio.Kaboom wrote:(400x stronger from 10 years of MOUNTAIN TRAINING)
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: End of Z Goku.
I think he means that, as far as we know, training on heaven isn't any better than training on Earth. But I can see Kaio's magic being helpful for devising new training methods, at least; he seems to make a good coach.
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Re: End of Z Goku.
When Goku was dead, he didn't have any of the limitations of a living body. Teleporting to heaven won't change that when he's alive. He also doesn't have any decent sparring partners in heaven.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: End of Z Goku.
The only difference between alive & dead Goku was his SSJ3, he couldn't mantain it very long in his living body because he wasn't used to it.Saiga wrote:When Goku was dead, he didn't have any of the limitations of a living body. Teleporting to heaven won't change that when he's alive.
Yet he managed to reach SSJ2 & SSJ3 there...He also doesn't have any decent sparring partners in heaven.
Last edited by DBZGTKOSDH on Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: End of Z Goku.
Well, that was at least partly because he was dead and didn't have the limitations of a living body. The only advantage heaven would have now that he isn't dead anymore is that Kaio's there to guide him. It's funny that Kaio is apparently still helpful in that regard, considering that all of Goku's other masters say they have nothing left to teach him once he's surpassed them.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Yet he managed to reach SSJ2 & SSJ3 there...
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: End of Z Goku.
Again, we don't know what kind of training Goku did at all, but we know that there is no limit on how strong a Saiyan can become.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: End of Z Goku.
That's debatable.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Again, we don't know what kind of training Goku did at all, but we know that there is no limit on how strong a Saiyan can become.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: End of Z Goku.
A lot of the Dragonball fandom does seem to think Training in heaven is somehow better than training on Earth. I don't agree because we never saw what Goku did in heaven that made it so special, or better. As far as I'm concerned, Vegeta, with gravity machines may have had access to better training thah Goku.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: End of Z Goku.
It was said in the manga. It's a fact.Saiga wrote:That's debatable.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Again, we don't know what kind of training Goku did at all, but we know that there is no limit on how strong a Saiyan can become.
Exept the fact that we have seen what he's done? He was wearing weights, which Kaio could increase with his magical powers. When flying, it was harder. So, Goku did some kind of gravity training in Heaven, along with mental training.Dabooyaka wrote:A lot of the Dragonball fandom does seem to think Training in heaven is somehow better than training on Earth. I don't agree because we never saw what Goku did in heaven that made it so special, or better. As far as I'm concerned, Vegeta, with gravity machines may have had access to better training thah Goku.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: End of Z Goku.
Goku training with weights is not that different to Vegeta training with weights. I've yet to see why heaven training is so much better.
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Li'l Lemmy
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Re: End of Z Goku.
Regarding the whole Base Goku (End of Z) > SSj3 Goku (Boo arc) thing, I think that what I said in another thread about this very topic can be applied here with regards to my specific opinion.
~Da Lemmy
Lemmy wrote:Speaking for Goku having fought with someone "far stronger" than Good Boo, well... call me crazy, but I just don't see it. There's no denying that Oob simply IS, or at least has the potential to be, as strong or stronger than Boo... but are we really given indication that Oob displayed that kind of power at the tournament? Or was Goku simply impressed because Oob fights in a way-- far beyond normal human capacity-- that validates his identity and SUGGESTS his true ability? This may be a personal qualm with me, and I welcome anyone who wants to offer clear evidence to the contrary, but I have never been given much reason to consider that End-of-Z Goku in base ever managed to match SSj Goku (Namek) in power. And if that's the case, then there's no way Oob could possibly be on the level of Good Boo-- if he were, base Goku wouldn't simply have been impressed, he'd have been humiliated.
~Da Lemmy
The NUMBER ONE Goten fan, and a fucking epic one at that.Goten of Japan wrote:Don't go 9... Go 10! (Go-ten. Goten. Get it? DOOD.)
Re: End of Z Goku.
It's not that simple. It's open to interpretation as to whether they can literally endlessly become stronger or hit their peak. It's entirely possible that Ultimate Gohan for instance is at the limit of his potential strength.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: It was said in the manga. It's a fact.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: End of Z Goku.
Gravity training is the most effective way of training, as far as we know. Goku's method of training in Heaven, while it wasn't gravity training, was exactly like gravity training. He wears weights to increase his weigth, and he can increase it as much as he wants thanks to Kaio's magic.Dabooyaka wrote:Goku training with weights is not that different to Vegeta training with weights. I've yet to see why heaven training is so much better.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.