Fat Buu should be above Evil Buu in this situation, since it was stated that Fat Buu's power was split when he expelled Evil Buu and that "most" of his power went to Evil Buu.son veku wrote: evil Buu(Gray one)
Fat Buu
Narrator: “The original Majin Boo had no chance of winning...This was because during the split, the majority of the power went to the evil one…"
Just the fact that it took everybody's KI (Including Gohan, Gotenks and Piccolo) to create the spirit bomb to destroy Pure Evil, while Gohan can pwn Super Buu around all day.Mystic Gohan wrote:There is no argument for Pure Buu>Super Buu going by Herms' translations.
As Toriyama explained in the Super Exciting Guide, genki is just one of many forces that make up your total ki, so you could already say that it's not the same as a person's battle power. Could also be why Goten and Trunks didn't fuse before contributing.Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P12.3
Goku: “Everyone! Give me as much genki as you possibly can! Please!”
But genki is the one that makes the most difference in battle.Bussani wrote:Technically, it's genki that people donate to the Genki-Dama.
As Toriyama explained in the Super Exciting Guide, genki is just one of many forces that make up your total ki, so you could already say that it's not the same as a person's battle power. Could also be why Goten and Trunks didn't fuse before contributing.Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P12.3
Goku: “Everyone! Give me as much genki as you possibly can! Please!”
Where's it say that?012yArthur0 wrote:But genki is the one that makes the most difference in battle.
There are still people who still believe that Pure Boo > Evil Boo. I have yet to find any logic behind this.Mystic Gohan wrote:There is no argument for Pure Buu>Super Buu going by Herms' translations.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Why do you need to be so arrogant and dismissive about it? If you're just casually watching the show and have no interest in digging into the minutia of character statements, never mind guide books and what they might say, you'd probably just go with the standard "each subsequent villain is stronger than the last, because that's just how things work".DBZGTKOSDH wrote:There are still people who still believe that Pure Boo > Evil Boo. I have yet to find any logic behind this.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I know. Previously, everyone was just getting stronger be training or by transforming. In Boo arc though, with Fusion/Potara, and Boo's strange nature, things get complicated.Fox666 wrote:Even if you don't believe on it, you must admit there is some weird progression in the Majin Boo saga, while all other sagas are more easily understandable.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
And just how much more shitty Toriyama's writing got. The series had gone on longer than it should've.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I know. Previously, everyone was just getting stronger be training or by transforming. In Boo arc though, with Fusion/Potara, and Boo's strange nature, things get complicated.Fox666 wrote:Even if you don't believe on it, you must admit there is some weird progression in the Majin Boo saga, while all other sagas are more easily understandable.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I disagree on both accounts and think you take your dislike of the Boo saga too far sometimes.Piccolo Daimao wrote: And just how much more shitty Toriyama's writing got. The series had gone on longer than it should've.
I don't dislike the Boo arc; I just think the writing had gotten really poor by that point and Toriyama's fatigue was really showing through, in both art and story. Of course, perhaps if the Boo arc didn't exist, many of us wouldn't be fans today, but it still went beyond a point that Toriyama really wanted it to.Saiga wrote:I disagree on both accounts and think you take your dislike of the Boo saga too far sometimes.Piccolo Daimao wrote:And just how much more shitty Toriyama's writing got. The series had gone on longer than it should've.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
That's too. Goku always wanted to fight strong opponents, even knowing they are way stronger than him. Cell and Frieza is just a proof. However, he actually tried to NOT fight against Boo because of the sole reason to pass the torch for the young ones, fully aware that he won't be protecting the Earth forever.Fox666 wrote:You are still being arrogant.
And you should be able to understand the point of view of other people. Goku has been lying about his own strength from the beggining (and why not about Boo too?). We have not consistently seen Gotenks or Gohan fighting against Goku. Besides near the end of the series there is some dialogue about Goku wishing to fight against the strongest possible opponent, and they quickly dismissed the help of Gotenks or Gohano.
Even if you don't believe on it, you must admit there is some weird progression in the Majin Boo saga, while all other sagas are more easily understandable.
Genki must be different than regular ki. The manga makes it quite clear that Goku is a fly compared to Gohan, therefore Kid Buu must be a fly compared to Super Buu.012yArthur0 wrote:Just the fact that it took everybody's KI (Including Gohan, Gotenks and Piccolo) to create the spirit bomb to destroy Pure Evil, while Gohan can pwn Super Buu around all day.Mystic Gohan wrote:There is no argument for Pure Buu>Super Buu going by Herms' translations.
For now, that's it's the only evidence I found, however, it's controversial, since we don't know how much ki they actually spent on the spirit bomb.
The closest thing I know of is this, but it doesn't seem to place greater importance on genki than on anything else.012yArthur0 wrote:And I saw the "genki" being the most important energy on a link on this same site. It was one of the first posts I was seeing, I'll may look for it to post here.
That said, I do think genki is important. You probably couldn't fight without genki, even if you had other things. But I'm not sure that means genki contributes more or accounts for more of a person's power, if that makes any sense. To use an analogy, it's like saying that a car has several things that are all equally important to move at a certain speed, such as the engine, the wheels, etc. But they're all useless is the car has no gas! Does that mean the gas is the most important thing? Well, of course not, because the car would be just as useless without wheels or an engine.元気/genki is a Japanese word referring to health or vigor. By extension, it can mean "energy" in the sense of referring to someone as energetic (but not "energy" in a scientific sense). Asking if someone is genki is a generic Japanese greeting, similar to asking how someone's doing in English. In Japanese, 気/ki is by no means limited in scope to the sort of fantasy life force or energy seen in DB or similar series, but is also used in countless words and terms referring to a person's feelings or state of mind, among other uses. Genki is one of these, as are 病気/byouki (sickness), 勇気/yuuki (bravery), 正気/shouki (soberness, being in one’s right mind), and many more. Toriyama references these sorts of words that have 気/ki in them in the SEG: Story Volume, where he connects them to the DB conception of ki:
What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.
Note 11: Genki and yuuki, shouki
The word “energy” [genki; also “health”, “vigor”, etc] is well known, but if you had an illness [byouki], would you not have energy? That’s difficult to answer. There are some people who have a healthy body but no energy, but there are also some people who are full of energy even when ill. What’s more, even with people who have about the same amount of power, there are some who, when attacked by Piccolo Daimao for instance, will stand firm and tough it out, while others will run away trembling in fear. If you think this way, you might understand how different kinds of “ki” are very important in battle. In the world of Chinese kenpo disciplines such as Tai Chi, much importance is placed on the training and control of ki.
Although in “DragonBall” the wizard Babidi had invented machines that measured and extracted “ki”, modern science is unable to measure “ki” or store it anywhere. However, there are times when people support you, and give you energy [genki] and courage [yuuki]. Though it can’t be seen, what is present then is “ki”.
It is. Herms translated this for us from the "Super Exciting Guide". Its was Toriyama who answered this question:Mystic Gohan wrote:Genki must be different than regular ki. The manga makes it quite clear that Goku is a fly compared to Gohan, therefore Kid Buu must be a fly compared to Super Buu.012yArthur0 wrote:Just the fact that it took everybody's KI (Including Gohan, Gotenks and Piccolo) to create the spirit bomb to destroy Pure Evil, while Gohan can pwn Super Buu around all day.Mystic Gohan wrote:There is no argument for Pure Buu>Super Buu going by Herms' translations.
For now, that's it's the only evidence I found, however, it's controversial, since we don't know how much ki they actually spent on the spirit bomb.
Therefore, Genki is only a part of the spiritual power of Ki.What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.
