Was Gohan "Ultimate" in Movie #12?

[Mystic Gohan]

While I do believe Piccolo > base Saiyans as well, why does it not make sense for the base Saiyans to be > Piccolo? It certainly has a lot of Boo saga evidence to back it up. I was a base Saiyan > Piccolo guy for the longest time.

[Hitiro]

If the base Saiyans never surpassed Freeza, that would mean that there is not a big difference between Freeza, Piccolo (pre-Kami merging), Piccolo (post-Kami merging), First Form Cell, Powered-up First Form Cell, Second Form Cell, Perfect Cell, #17 & #18, Goku (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT), Gohan (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT), Vegeta (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT, day 1) & (post-RoSaT, day 2), and Future Trunks (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT, day 1) & (post-RoSaT, day 2), while there clearly are huge differences between all these.

As for Kaioshin being weaker than Pui Pui & Yakon, I don't believe so. Piccolo said himself that he was weaker than Kaioshin (Daizenshuu confirm that as well). If Kaioshin is weaker than Pui Pui and/or Yakon, then it would go like Piccolo < Kaioshin < Pui Pui < Base Vegeta, and Vegeta being stronger than Piccolo in base doesn't make any sense.

Why do you think there isn't that much difference between them? Considering what I said earlier if we assume, for arguments sake, Goku still has a power level of 3 million then his SSJ form would be 150 million. Now if Goku trained and got to 6 million his power level in SSJ would be 300 million. That's a 150 million increase. So considering this Piccolo can easily be at least twice as strong as Freeza before Goku and the other Saiyan's could surpass him. But thats just being the minimum. If we assume Goku is around 60 million by the time of the Boo Saga then he's 25 times stronger than Frieza's 100% in SSJ, thats clearly a huge difference between where he was during the Freeza saga and where he is now. And its plenty of leeway for the other characters to have huge leeway between each other.

Piccolo (post-Kami merging) could be 3x stronger than 100% Freeza. 360 million
SSJ Goku(Pre-RoSaT) 1.5x > 100% Freeza. 180 million
#18 2.5x > 100% Freeza. 300 million
#17 3x > 100% Freeza. 360 million
Imperfect Cell 3x > 100% Freeza. 360 million
Powered-up Imperfect Cell 1.33x > Imperfect Cell = 4x 100% Freeza. 480 million
Semi-Perfect Cell 2x > Powered-up Imperfect Cell = 8x 100% Freeza. 960 million

SSJG2 Vegeta 2x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 16x 100% Freeza. 1.92 billion
SSJ Goku(Post-RoSaT) 2.45x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 19.6x 100% Freeza. 2.352 billion
SSJ Gohan(Post-RoSaT) 2.5x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 20x 100% Freeza. 2.4 billion
Perfect Cell(Restricted) 2.5x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 20x 100% Freeza. 2.4 billion
SSJG3 Trunks 4x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 32x 100% Freeza. 3.84 billion

Perfect Cell(Full Power) 1.5x > Perfect Cell(Restricted) = 30x 100% Freeza. 3.7 billion
SSJ2 Gohan 1.6x(With rage boost) > Perfect Cell(Full Power) = 48x 100% Freeza. 5.76 billion
Super Perfect Cell 1.5x > Perfect Cell(Full Power) = 46x 100% Freeza. 5.52 billion

It could come out something like above. There is still quite a gap between their respective powers by a couple hundred million. And in the billions later on.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

While I do believe Piccolo > base Saiyans as well, why does it not make sense for the base Saiyans to be > Piccolo? It certainly has a lot of Boo saga evidence to back it up. I was a base Saiyan > Piccolo guy for the longest time.

It definitely wouldn't make sense for Base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo. At least in my honest opinion it wouldn't. For one, he wasn't implied to be stronger than Piccolo several yrs back in Base, so it'd make no sense for a weaker version of Gohan to somehow have the upperhand over Piccolo. People can say Goku and Vegeta ended up surpassing Piccolo through training if they want, but the same can't be said about Gohan. Unless you already believe he was miles ahead of Piccolo in Base during the Cell Games.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If the base Saiyans never surpassed Freeza, that would mean that there is not a big difference between Freeza, Piccolo (pre-Kami merging), Piccolo (post-Kami merging), First Form Cell, Powered-up First Form Cell, Second Form Cell, Perfect Cell, #17 & #18, Goku (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT), Gohan (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT), Vegeta (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT, day 1) & (post-RoSaT, day 2), and Future Trunks (pre-RoSaT) & (post-RoSaT, day 1) & (post-RoSaT, day 2), while there clearly are huge differences between all these.

As for Kaioshin being weaker than Pui Pui & Yakon, I don't believe so. Piccolo said himself that he was weaker than Kaioshin (Daizenshuu confirm that as well). If Kaioshin is weaker than Pui Pui and/or Yakon, then it would go like Piccolo < Kaioshin < Pui Pui < Base Vegeta, and Vegeta being stronger than Piccolo in base doesn't make any sense.

Why do you think there isn't that much difference between them? Considering what I said earlier if we assume, for arguments sake, Goku still has a power level of 3 million then his SSJ form would be 150 million. Now if Goku trained and got to 6 million his power level in SSJ would be 300 million. That's a 150 million increase. So considering this Piccolo can easily be at least twice as strong as Freeza before Goku and the other Saiyan's could surpass him. But thats just being the minimum. If we assume Goku is around 60 million by the time of the Boo Saga then he's 25 times stronger than Freeza's 100% in SSJ, thats clearly a huge difference between where he was during the Freeza saga and where he is now. And its plenty of leeway for the other characters to have huge leeway between each other.

Piccolo (post-Kami merging) could be 3x stronger than 100% Freeza. 360 million
SSJ Goku(Pre-RoSaT) 1.5x > 100% Freeza. 180 million
#18 2.5x > 100% Freeza. 300 million
#17 3x > 100% Freeza. 360 million
Imperfect Cell 3x > 100% Freeza. 360 million
Powered-up Imperfect Cell 1.33x > Imperfect Cell = 4x 100% Freeza. 480 million
Semi-Perfect Cell 2x > Powered-up Imperfect Cell = 8x 100% Freeza. 960 million

SSJG2 Vegeta 2x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 16x 100% Freeza. 1.92 billion
SSJ Goku(Post-RoSaT) 2.45x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 19.6x 100% Freeza. 2.352 billion
SSJ Gohan(Post-RoSaT) 2.5x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 20x 100% Freeza. 2.4 billion
Perfect Cell(Restricted) 2.5x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 20x 100% Freeza. 2.4 billion
SSJG3 Trunks 4x > Semi-Perfect Cell = 32x 100% Freeza. 3.84 billion

Perfect Cell(Full Power) 1.5x > Perfect Cell(Restricted) = 30x 100% Freeza. 3.7 billion
SSJ2 Gohan 1.6x(With rage boost) > Perfect Cell(Full Power) = 48x 100% Freeza. 5.76 billion
Super Perfect Cell 1.5x > Perfect Cell(Full Power) = 46x 100% Freeza. 5.52 billion

It could come out something like above. There is still quite a gap between their respective powers by a couple hundred million. And in the billions later on.

Didn't think of it that way. Then yeah, maybe the Saiyans can't beat Full Power Freeza, but definitely 50% Freeza.

[Fox666]

Why "definitely"? There is no official battle power records for that part of the history, so everything is speculation.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Edit: Sorry, Fox. I honestly missed DBZ's post and just assumed it was about mine.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Focusing on one word out of my entire post misses the point entirely, dude.

I'm not sure if he is talking about yours or mine definitely, but if he is referring to me, I meant that the Saiyans could definitely beat Freeza, in my opinion.

[Fox666]

Even if it is just your opinion, it seems a little vague to me. If you don't believe in Piccolo or Kaioshin being inferior to the base Saiyans, I don't really see where you are getting that from. It has never been said that Goku got X times stronger.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But Goku got stronger during the two years on Yardrat, during the three years on Earth, during the one day/year inside the Room of Spirit & Time (and he got a lot more powerful there), and during the seven years in the AfterLife. That's totally 13 years worth of hard training. Add the 10 years on Earth if you want, since he was training to prepare for his fight with Oob. So yeah, from all these years, I don't find it very hard for him to have gotten 20 times stronger in 13 or 23 year of hard training, when he got 18 times stronger after 4 years of less painful training when he was a kid.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There are no power levels past the Freeza saga. The Super Genki Dama is not subject to the power level ruling. Its a convenient way to have Goku win and is plot based in power. Toriyama had a Genki Dama formed from everyone because it was an epic way to finish the series. It also make Buu look powerful like he should. Power Scaling can be done with the Genki Dama yes but you cannot figure out its power level based on the human power level of 5 and everyone elses power level which are all unknown. I would also like to point out that Gohan did in fact fuel it with his Genki so its as powerful as it needs to be. Also Yakons rep may not necessarily mean Yakon is stronger but I believe this does prove my point. IMO if Kaioshin finds Yakons rep more terrifying than Freeza's power I'm gonna assume that Yakon is more powerful.

[quote="HitiroIt would have been just as "epic" to just show the various characters who Goku has met in his travels to find the dragonballs and have every single one of them make a cameo of a few pages as opposed to random single panels of various people from his adventures. If your averaging out the powerlevel of the whole planet with what we know the average powerlevel of a human is, 5. Then its quite easy to see that if Goku or any of the other Saiyan's were over 60 million then their combined ki, which is quite prossibly much smaller than 30 billion considering Genki is only a portion of a persons ki and that I'm using the average power level of 5, there are probably numerous children and elderly people who aren't even close to this power level which are the majority in consideration to population. And as I said, Kaioshin finds Yakon terrifying because he's assuming that from his rep he is marginally stronger than Freeza. However that may not be the case. Mr. Satan is apparently the strongest man on Earth yet we know that isn't true, that's just his reputation proceeding his actual ability.

the Genki Dama is as strong as it needs to be kill Buu since Gohan gave his Genki. Since its unclear how much power everyone had after being revived it could be anywhere. Furthermore Genki is filling it so there is no way for sure to convert it to a power level. Here is the thing though. He finds Yakons rep to be more terrifying that Frieza's power. He knows full well how powerful Frieza is and yet is scared of Yakon. There is really no reason to look further into this and here is why. the Supreme Kai is an overseer. He should be aware of any "obvious" threats. Now I say this because even though the Saiyans are obviously huge threats they were ignored because of how obscure they were. On the otherhand Kaioshin was aware of Frieza and Yakon meaning they are indeed a threat. If he has heard of Frieza and wasnt scared of him and is scared of Yakon based on what he has heard that should mean he is stronger. You are also ingoring the fact that humanity and childeren are fooled by Mr Satans rep. Kaioshin is again an overseer of the universe. He is certainly smarter than Humanity and Trunks whom BTW was only fooled for like a few seconds. There is also that whole fiasco with Piccolo. Dabura was more impressed by Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta than Piccolo and we all know Piccolo would even grind Android 18 into the dirt. Then there is Vegeta being perfectly ok with the fact that he wasnt going SSJ against any of his competetors knowing full well that Piccolo and 18 are entering the Budokai. There seems to be plenty of evidence pointing toward the idea that the Base Saiyans are above even Piccolo.

[TheMightyOzaru]

While I do believe Piccolo > base Saiyans as well, why does it not make sense for the base Saiyans to be > Piccolo? It certainly has a lot of Boo saga evidence to back it up. I was a base Saiyan > Piccolo guy for the longest time.

It definitely wouldn't make sense for Base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo. At least in my honest opinion it wouldn't. For one, he wasn't implied to be stronger than Piccolo several yrs back in Base, so it'd make no sense for a weaker version of Gohan to somehow have the upperhand over Piccolo. People can say Goku and Vegeta ended up surpassing Piccolo through training if they want, but the same can't be said about Gohan. Unless you already believe he was miles ahead of Piccolo in Base during the Cell Games.

Dabura might be able to see some potential in Gohan or something. Dabura seems incapable of knowing 100% how strong someone is however it seems he has a general idea since he claims that they have enormous energy.

[Hitiro]

The Genki Dama is as strong as it needs to be kill Buu since Gohan gave his Genki. Since its unclear how much power everyone had after being revived it could be anywhere. Furthermore Genki is filling it so there is no way for sure to convert it to a power level. Here is the thing though. He finds Yakons rep to be more terrifying that Freeza's power. He knows full well how powerful Freeza is and yet is scared of Yakon. There is really no reason to look further into this and here is why. the Supreme Kai is an overseer. He should be aware of any "obvious" threats. Now I say this because even though the Saiyans are obviously huge threats they were ignored because of how obscure they were. On the otherhand Kaioshin was aware of Freeza and Yakon meaning they are indeed a threat. If he has heard of Freeza and wasnt scared of him and is scared of Yakon based on what he has heard that should mean he is stronger. You are also ingoring the fact that humanity and childeren are fooled by Mr Satans rep. Kaioshin is again an overseer of the universe. He is certainly smarter than Humanity and Trunks whom BTW was only fooled for like a few seconds. There is also that whole fiasco with Piccolo. Dabura was more impressed by Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta than Piccolo and we all know Piccolo would even grind Android 18 into the dirt. Then there is Vegeta being perfectly ok with the fact that he wasnt going SSJ against any of his competetors knowing full well that Piccolo and 18 are entering the Budokai. There seems to be plenty of evidence pointing toward the idea that the Base Saiyans are above even Piccolo.

Be careful when you're quoting, I've noticed you do this quite a lot but you usually don't quote properly which leaves text merging randomly making it hard to distinguish what's mine and what's yours. On to the point, actually Trunks continues to be puzzled as to whether Mr. Satan is strong even after knocking him out of the ring. And even Dende asks why he is not fighting Majin Buu if he's the champion of Earth. So it is clearly rep > actual strength on this occasion. Its the same that could be said for Yakon. Yakon is only perceived as a threat because Kaioshin is terrible at evaluating anyone but apparently Frieza. Another fact we must consider, which is noted in the Daizenshuu as well as stated in the manga, is Kibito would give Gohan trouble unless he went SSJ. Now we can hardly consider the Kaioshin to be weaker than Kibito because that wouldn't make much logical sense. But considering the fact that Gohan would have trouble with Kibito unless he went SSJ and considering Kaioshin was generally afraid of Yakon then by your statement it should be something like this?

Yakon > Kaioshin > Gohan >= Kibito

^Considering this are we to assume that Goku is vastly stronger than them all? Because he's handling Yakon by pretty easily even while in base. Only being slightly caught off-guard by how quick he was for an instance. Gohan may be rusty but I don't think its that much of a difference between him and his father.

I don't know about you but I have a hard time believing this especially considering Gohan seemed pretty relaxed about his father fighting against Yakon. IMO the Kaioshin was clearly overestimating the enemy due to reputation when reputation can mean diddly squat when you take, for example, Mr. Satan. Where Yakon is from he probably had to deal with chumps whereas in the Z Fighters galaxy there are far stronger opponents.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

If that's the case, shouldn't the "potential" part apply to all of them? Especially since they were all suppressed to nothing?

[Pantalones]

why does it not make sense for the base Saiyans to be > Piccolo?

That's easy: because Piccolo at the Cell Games was still within the same general range of SSj Vegeta and Trunks (weaker than Goku but still strong enough to keep up with a Cell Jr. to some extent), and Vegeta has not become 50 times stronger than he was at the Cell Games.

SSj2 Gohan at the Cell Games is always used as a comparison in the Buu saga--Dabura's said to be around Cell's level (so Gohan could've handled him if he hadn't slacked off, and neither Goku or Vegeta would have much trouble with him now that they're at or beyond SSj2 kid Gohan's level), Vegeta comments that Gohan's not as impressive now as when he was a kid, Vegeta describes the level of power he and Goku have by saying that they'd surpassed regular Super Saiyan like Gohan did. If Vegeta had become 50 times stronger during that 7 years, Gohan's SSj2 would only be a few times as strong as Vegeta's base form. He'd be a joke power-wise even compared to Vegeta and Goku's regular Super Saiyan forms, rather than being seen as a guy who's still pretty strong but fell behind the two pure-blooded adult Saiyans due to his lack of training. There would be no reason to build up their new SSj2 power levels by saying "both of us have surpassed Gohan!" if that was something they did a few years ago and they've since blasted so far past Gohan that it's not even funny.

Basically... most of the training Goku and Vegeta did over the 7-year gap was to catch up to where Gohan was (he was stronger than Goku even in regular SSj, after all) and learn how to go Super Saiyan 2. I seriously doubt Gohan at the Cell Games was 50x stronger than any other Saiyan present, which means Goku and Vegeta would not magically get a 50x boost to their base forms just by training to catch up to (and slightly surpass) Gohan.

Pretty much the only way that the base Saiyans could be stronger than Piccolo in the Buu saga is if the Super Saiyan multiplier has changed (to something much lower than 50 times that of their base form) and their base powers are much higher than before to compensate for the smaller boosts from their super forms.

[Dr. Machismo]

Obviously not. There was no need for him to transform into that anyway. And when Gohan turns into that form, his facial expressions change. None of that happens in Movie 12.

[Mystic Gohan]

While I do believe Piccolo > base Saiyans as well, why does it not make sense for the base Saiyans to be > Piccolo? It certainly has a lot of Boo saga evidence to back it up. I was a base Saiyan > Piccolo guy for the longest time.

It definitely wouldn't make sense for Base Gohan to be stronger than Piccolo. At least in my honest opinion it wouldn't. For one, he wasn't implied to be stronger than Piccolo several yrs back in Base, so it'd make no sense for a weaker version of Gohan to somehow have the upperhand over Piccolo. People can say Goku and Vegeta ended up surpassing Piccolo through training if they want, but the same can't be said about Gohan. Unless you already believe he was miles ahead of Piccolo in Base during the Cell Games.

Why would Gohan be implied to be stronger than Piccolo in base? He is either in his SSjin or SSjin 2 form the entire time in the Cell Games. The base Saiyans however are implied to be stronger than Piccolo a few times in the Boo saga.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That's the point. We have no indication of how strong he is in Base during the Cell Games. What we know is Piccolo gained a ton of power in the rosat, while Gohan gained nothing in the course of 7 yrs and got worse.

So either Piccolo grew weak enough to be less than a weaker Base Teen Gohan, or you honestly believe Base Kid Gohan was already miles ahead of Piccolo back in the Cell Games to the point where he'd put up just as much of a fight as Super Saiyan Vegeta and Super Saiyan Trunks. I just don't see it. The main thing implying the Base Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo is Dabra's statement when they were suppressed. The whole "Vegeta thinks he's going to win the tournament" is just conjecture. He's not going to say he's going to lose--that's too unlike Vegeta.

[Fox666]

But Goku got stronger during the two years on Yardrat, during the three years on Earth, during the one day/year inside the Room of Spirit & Time (and he got a lot more powerful there), and during the seven years in the AfterLife. That's totally 13 years worth of hard training. Add the 10 years on Earth if you want, since he was training to prepare for his fight with Oob. So yeah, from all these years, I don't find it very hard for him to have gotten 20 times stronger in 13 or 23 year of hard training, when he got 18 times stronger after 4 years of less painful training when he was a kid.

But that's subjective and not measurable. And I should mentioned that the increases in power seems to have slowed down after the Freeza saga. The only objective information we are given is that Goku using 50% of his power was stronger than Vegeta, which is not such an enormous difference. In fact the Super Saiyan 2 only multiplies the power by two times, despite how important it was. Grade II supposedly gives an even smaller increase.

That's easy: because Piccolo at the Cell Games was still within the same general range of SSj Vegeta and Trunks (weaker than Goku but still strong enough to keep up with a Cell Jr. to some extent), and Vegeta has not become 50 times stronger than he was at the Cell Games.

Agree. And it kinda of comes down to whenever you give more credit to the Cell or Boo saga.

[Mystic Gohan]

That's the point. We have no indication of how strong he is in Base during the Cell Games. What we know is Piccolo gained a ton of power in the rosat, while Gohan gained nothing in the course of 7 yrs and got worse.

So either Piccolo grew weak enough to be less than a weaker Base Teen Gohan, or you honestly believe Base Kid Gohan was already miles ahead of Piccolo back in the Cell Games to the point where he'd put up just as much of a fight as Super Saiyan Vegeta and Super Saiyan Trunks. I just don't see it. The main thing implying the Base Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo is Dabra's statement when they were suppressed. The whole "Vegeta thinks he's going to win the tournament" is just conjecture. He's not going to say he's going to lose--that's too unlike Vegeta.

We know that Piccolo gained power true, but we don't know how much on that either. We are basically left in the dark about Piccolo and base Gohan and then the nice little Boo saga comes around and gives us implications that the base Saiyans are stronger than Piccolo. If Boo saga Gohan is stronger than Piccolo, surely Cell Games Gohan would be as well.

What evidence is there that Piccolo would put any sort of resistance up against SSjin Vegeta or Trunks? Well Dabura's statement is always a tricky one to explain. The energy of the saiyans or Piccolo or Krillin wouldn't be "marvelous" if all Dabura was sensing was there suppressed energy especially when you consider than he just got half the energy needed for Boo so quickly. It appears that Dabura got a glimpse of something other than the suppressed power warranting his statement. Vegeta AND Gohan are willing to fight in base remember dat.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The Genki Dama is as strong as it needs to be kill Buu since Gohan gave his Genki. Since its unclear how much power everyone had after being revived it could be anywhere. Furthermore Genki is filling it so there is no way for sure to convert it to a power level. Here is the thing though. He finds Yakons rep to be more terrifying that Freeza's power. He knows full well how powerful Freeza is and yet is scared of Yakon. There is really no reason to look further into this and here is why. the Supreme Kai is an overseer. He should be aware of any "obvious" threats. Now I say this because even though the Saiyans are obviously huge threats they were ignored because of how obscure they were. On the otherhand Kaioshin was aware of Freeza and Yakon meaning they are indeed a threat. If he has heard of Freeza and wasnt scared of him and is scared of Yakon based on what he has heard that should mean he is stronger. You are also ingoring the fact that humanity and childeren are fooled by Mr Satans rep. Kaioshin is again an overseer of the universe. He is certainly smarter than Humanity and Trunks whom BTW was only fooled for like a few seconds. There is also that whole fiasco with Piccolo. Dabura was more impressed by Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta than Piccolo and we all know Piccolo would even grind Android 18 into the dirt. Then there is Vegeta being perfectly ok with the fact that he wasnt going SSJ against any of his competetors knowing full well that Piccolo and 18 are entering the Budokai. There seems to be plenty of evidence pointing toward the idea that the Base Saiyans are above even Piccolo.

Be careful when you're quoting, I've noticed you do this quite a lot but you usually don't quote properly which leaves text merging randomly making it hard to distinguish what's mine and what's yours. On to the point, actually Trunks continues to be puzzled as to whether Mr. Satan is strong even after knocking him out of the ring. And even Dende asks why he is not fighting Majin Buu if he's the champion of Earth. So it is clearly rep > actual strength on this occasion. Its the same that could be said for Yakon. Yakon is only perceived as a threat because Kaioshin is terrible at evaluating anyone but apparently Freeza. Another fact we must consider, which is noted in the Daizenshuu as well as stated in the manga, is Kibito would give Gohan trouble unless he went SSJ. Now we can hardly consider the Kaioshin to be weaker than Kibito because that wouldn't make much logical sense. But considering the fact that Gohan would have trouble with Kibito unless he went SSJ and considering Kaioshin was generally afraid of Yakon then by your statement it should be something like this?

Yakon > Kaioshin > Gohan >= Kibito

^Considering this are we to assume that Goku is vastly stronger than them all? Because he's handling Yakon by pretty easily even while in base. Only being slightly caught off-guard by how quick he was for an instance. Gohan may be rusty but I don't think its that much of a difference between him and his father.

I don't know about you but I have a hard time believing this especially considering Gohan seemed pretty relaxed about his father fighting against Yakon. IMO the Kaioshin was clearly overestimating the enemy due to reputation when reputation can mean diddly squat when you take, for example, Mr. Satan. Where Yakon is from he probably had to deal with chumps whereas in the Z Fighters galaxy there are far stronger opponents.

I'm quoting Dabura and it may not be his actual statement but its the jist of what he says. He regards the 3 as having a vast amount of energy. How is Kaioshin terrible at evaluating? He doesnt know who Pui Pui is so he is unsure of how powerful he is. Kaioshin knows who Yakon is and is scared to fight him alone. Kaioshin knows how powerful Dabura is. I see no reason to assume he is bad at guesstimating someones power. If Yakon scares him that much and finds his rep based on what he has heard to be more terrifying than Frieza I'm gonna assume he is stronger. Trunks knows nothing about Mr Satan other than he is the supposed strongest on Earth. Kaioshin on the other hand again is an overseer and if he has heard something he probably knows how much of a threat he or she is. Something that is also interesting is that Kaioshin is very much impressed by the Base Saiyans however he regards Frieza as nothing and unimpressive. Dabura probably senses potential in Gohan or something. I do not think in any way that Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo without some hidden potential reserves. Notice that everyone has there energy suppressed yet Dabura has a clear idea of how much energy each individual has. Dabura seemingly has some unique ability however it is quite obvious that he cannot sense the energy of a SSJ since he was rather shocked by the 3,000 Kiris. It looks like this for me
Dabura > Goku > Vegeta > Yakon > Pui Pui > Kaioshin > Piccolo > Gohan >= Kibito
What? Goku has been training for 7 years where as Gohan has been slacking for 7 years. There is an obvious gap between them. Oh and BTW I almost forgot something. Dabura thinks Yakon can beat all of them and he KNOWS how powerful Kaioshin is. I think thats proof enough dont you .