Movies Placement

[Zephyr]

The fact that they were released at the same time does not mean that the characters from that point in the anime were magically zapped away to an alternate universe where the movie starts to unfold, because that would make no sense

But that seems to be the case with Movie 1 at least.It can't take place in an alternate timeline, since the Garlic Jr. filler exists.But it can't take place before the Begininning of Z either, since Goku and Piccolo don't act like it's their first time of teaming up, Goku not acknowledging Gohan's secret powers and Kuririn having already met Gohan before.3 ploholes, that I can only see get explained by that ridiculous theory, about the characters being zapped out of the current anime episodes into the movie-

In Universe theory that actually adheres to the internal logic of the series:
- Movie 1 occurs
- Kami asks Shenlong to erase everyone's memory
- Saiyan and Namek arcs happen
- Garlic Jr. arc happen
- Everyone's memory returns upon seeing Garlic Jr. again

Mine is plenty ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as the characters being magically zapped to another dimension for no reason.

[PerfectFreeza]

Why, please, would Kami wish to erase their memories of an immortal enemy, that was only possible to defeat by being sealed in the Dead Zone and who could potentially escape again?
The characters being magically zapped occurs in every movie.M3 comes to mind.
The Daizenshuu itself states it takes place after Goku arrives on Namek, but before his showndown with Freeza.
They are on Earth though.So they were zapped from the Planet Namek to Earth, along with the dead Earthlings and Piccolo.
Also, I noticed this interesting tidbit from the same guide about the same movie.
'' From the "Go" mark on the breast and back of Goku's dougi, it seems that this is a story from after Goku arrived on Planet Namek. However, there are inconsistencies like the stage being set on Earth, that make it fair to say that this is a movie-only story. ''
Movie-only story!That's exactly what I am trying to say.All of the movies are just only short stories, that have no relation or timeline placement.They mimick the current anime episodes.Just like Movie 3 does with the Namek saga,
evidenced by Gohan's haircut and outfit.

[Zephyr]

I get that. The Daizenshuu are nice with their humorous observations of the impossibilities of the movies, given the way the anime occurs. Their placement could be referring to the date on the Age calender, though.

As for why Kami would do such a thing, who knows? Again, I know it's ridiculous, I actually heard it mentioned here a long time ago, and adopted it because it made as much sense as anything else. Doesn't have to be Kami erasing the memories, though. Could be a random surviving member of Garlic Jr.'s clan/one of his minions who did so as a means to make his eventual freeing of Garlic Jr. from the Dead Zone go unnoticed until needed.

All of the movies can be forced to make sense if you rationalize how, from an in universe perspective, the story would reach that point.

And as for the elements that are shared, that can be rationalized in universe, and be attributed out of universe to laziness on the creators' part.


The idea that they were magically zapped to another dimension is interesting though. I've never seen/heard it before. If that's what Undertaker's been meaning to argue, I've not been able to figure that out, but maybe I'm just incompetent.

[PerfectFreeza]

But don't you think it would be mentioned, that somebody erased their memory of Garlic Jr.
If somebody did that, then they wouldn't have clue, about who he was, when he returned.Even more so, how would the minion know about Gohan's hidden power beating Garlic Jr.?
It's pretty much impossible though.The humans are around in M3, yet Goku knows Kaioken x 10, has power level of over 30,000 and wears a differed symboled uniform, atop of Gohan's haircut.
I...can't see any idea of a timeline, where THAT could happen.
That's pretty much my theory about the films.M1 Z-Fighters=zapped out of the Raditz fight,M2 Z-Fighters=zapped out of the late Saiyan saga,M3=zapped out of the Namek saga, M4=zapped out of the Ginyu force battles, M5=zapped out of the battle with Freeza,etc..you get the point.
He was kind of meaning the same as I do.

[Zephyr]

But don't you think it would be mentioned, that somebody erased their memory of Garlic Jr.
If somebody did that, then they wouldn't have clue, about who he was, when he returned.

It doesn't need to be mentioned to be plausible. The "zapping" is never explicitly mentioned either. The "memory erasing" idea is at least an attempt at making sense of the headaches. And as for them remembering who he was, who's to say memory erasing can't work like that in one instance?

It's pretty much impossible though.The humans are around in M3, yet Goku knows Kaioken x 10, has power level of over 30,000 and wears a differed symboled uniform, atop of Gohan's haircut.

Of course Movie 3 can be made sense of, as can 2 and 4:

Garlic Jr. made his move on world domination between the 23rd TB and the Saiyan arc. This leads to Gohan's power being known to all of the heroes before the Saiyan arc even happens. This drastically alters the Saiyan arc, in which Gohan is a more capable fighter. With a more confident and better trained Gohan, Goku does not get as badly wounded against Vegeta, and is able to embark to Namek with Bulma, Gohan, and Krillin.

Not wanting to deal with Goku and Freeza at the same time, Vegeta opts for a truce with the heroes much sooner, so as to take out the bigger threat (Freeza). Piccolo is (possibly) wished back sooner, due to them being able to gather the Dragon Balls much more quickly. Freeza kills Vegeta, but is himself killed before ever getting the chance to transform, through everyone's combined efforts (with a Taiyoken + Kienzan combo possibly playing a part). The dead heroes are brought back in whatever is the most convenient combination of the two Dragon Ball sets.

Movies 2, 3, and 4 follow from this. Of course, this chain of events wouldn't share continuity with the memory erasing idea.

[PerfectFreeza]

The zapping isn't an in-universe event.
Garlic Jr. however appears in the anime, which follows the normal timeline, so that can't be right.
How do you explain Goku's outfit and his Kaioken x 10 in Movie 3 though?

[Undertaker]

Every movie is an alternative universe based on an arc. Goku never knew IT in M5. M13 was released while SSJ Vegito battled Gohan-Boo. Also Goku was dead until Gotenk-s Boo beat Gohan. Do your researches

Just because the movies are unoriginal and pull character designs, plot twists, fights, character interactions, etc from the anime, does not mean that the characters in one movie are at the exact same level of power as they were in the episode(s) it pulls elements from. Just because a movie was released on X date, does not mean that the characters in said movie are at the exact same level of power as they were in the episode that aired on X date.

It's perfectly fine if you believe that they are at the same realms of power, but could you tell us why you think that they have to be at the same realm of power? Maybe if you put your argument in standard form, it would be easier to critique your reasoning? Maybe it will allow you to see that your premises are not supporting your conclusion?

Prove it. Everything makes my opinion valid.

Very well. I'll humor you, and ignore the fact that you completely dodged all of my questions.

The chain of events in universe that lead to a certain movie happening are not the same chain of events that lead to a certain episode of the anime happening. They are separate continuities, with different occurrences, interactions, moves being made, reactions to those moves, character power ups, and training sessions.

For Movie 8 to even be able to occur from an in universe perspective, Goku and Gohan have to have entered the RoSaT and left, because Gohan can become SSj. It can't be during the wait for the Cell Games, because Goku and Gohan are not in SSj form while going about their daily routines. It can't be after the Cell Games, because Goku is still alive. In the anime, we see that Gohan is more powerful than Goku, yet in the film, Goku is the superior. This means that there is a fork in the timeline, where two paths diverged. One path results in Goku being stronger and the Cell Games are not a thing of relevance anymore, one with Gohan being stronger and the Cell Games are still a thing of relevance. Goku's power during the wait for the Cell Games can not be the same as Goku's power in Movie 8, due to the two different Goku's having lived separate lives, done different things, undergone different training, etc. They have to have lived these separate lives, and thus not be at the same level of power, because that is the only possible way, from an in universe perspective, for these two separate continuities to be two separate continuities.

If we look out of universe for a moment, we see that Movie 13 was released around the same time that Vegetto was fighting Buu in the anime. The fact that they were released at the same time does not mean that the characters from that point in the anime were magically zapped away to an alternate universe where the movie starts to unfold, because that would make no sense. The movie can only take place after the battle with Buu, due to Goku and Vegeta being unfused and both alive, and Gohan and Gotenks being in their most powerful forms (and not absorbed by Buu).


You're also misusing the term "valid". "Valid" is referring to an argument that has a conclusion that is supported by the premises.[/quote]

You do realize movies are alternative universes? Piccolo should be dead in M3 along with the others and they are alive. Goku should be on Namek in M4 and he is on Earth Goku and Vegeta being alive in M13 is irrelevant and yes it happens at that time. Pure Boo never existed in M13 time line.

As for your M8, Gohan is weaker than Goku because he was not known to be stronger during the time of M8 production and when they rested. Goku and Gohan not staying SSJs is because the movie is an alternative universe where their max is their resting states IMO.

I never ignored your questions. M1 was revealed after Raditz was beaten and we know M1=Raditz Arc. M2 is based on the Vegeta Arc and was revealed a few episodes after

M3 was revealed between episodes 54 to 55 when the highest power was Monster Zarbon who was barely at 30,000 which is why Goku and Turles surpass it and we know M3=Namek Arc. The list goes on. The release dates and concept arts determine the power

[RandomGuy96]

Movies 5 (Cooler), 9 (Bojack), and 13 (Hirudegarn) all fit cleanly into the continuity, and Movie 5's place in there is backed up by official material. Movie 1 has a few minor issues, but the Garlic Jr. arc means that it's still there.

I think that Movies 2, 3, and 4 are all intertwined in their own alternate universe, as are Movies 6 and 7 and Movies 8, 10, 11, and 12.

[dbzfan7]

Movies 5 (Cooler), 9 (Bojack), and 13 (Hirudegarn) all fit cleanly into the continuity, and Movie 5's place in there is backed up by official material. Movie 1 has a few minor issues, but the Garlic Jr. arc means that it's still there.

I think that Movies 2, 3, and 4 are all intertwined in their own alternate universe, as are Movies 6 and 7 and Movies 8, 10, 11, and 12.

Only thing I don't understand with movie 5 is why Gohan has a tail and is pathetic (not Goku syndrome most likely), and why Goku can't go Super Saiyan at will since after returning from Yardrat he could.

[RandomGuy96]

1. Gohan could've just regrown it and removed it. 3 years is a long time.

2. The Armored Squad is probably way stronger than him, so he didn't get a chance to do much other than get pwned.

3. PIS. Remember in Movie 7 where the saiyans fought the androids in base and then didn't transform until the androids were about to kill them, having already beaten the crap out of them? Then they still somehow had trouble after transforming. Or in Movie 9, where Trunks let Kogu beat the crap out of him before going Super Saiyan and one-shotting him? Or Movie 10, where we have the infamous base Gohan vs Broly fight?

[Undertaker]

1. Gohan could've just regrown it and removed it. 3 years is a long time.

2. The Armored Squad is probably way stronger than him, so he didn't get a chance to do much other than get pwned.

3. PIS. Remember in Movie 7 where the saiyans fought the androids in base and then didn't transform until the androids were about to kill them, having already beaten the crap out of them? Then they still somehow had trouble after transforming. Or in Movie 9, where Trunks let Kogu beat the crap out of him before going Super Saiyan and one-shotting him? Or Movie 10, where we have the infamous base Gohan vs Broly fight?

No it's because M5 relates to the Frieza Arc. Post Frieza never existed

[RandomGuy96]

...what does that even mean? Are we still talking about it in-universe?

[dbzfan7]

1. Gohan could've just regrown it and removed it. 3 years is a long time.

2. The Armored Squad is probably way stronger than him, so he didn't get a chance to do much other than get pwned.

3. PIS. Remember in Movie 7 where the saiyans fought the androids in base and then didn't transform until the androids were about to kill them, having already beaten the crap out of them? Then they still somehow had trouble after transforming. Or in Movie 9, where Trunks let Kogu beat the crap out of him before going Super Saiyan and one-shotting him? Or Movie 10, where we have the infamous base Gohan vs Broly fight?

1. Quite possible. I don't think he got a tail after the Vegeta fight, but it doesn't really break anything.

2. He probably didn't get the chance to get angry is my guess

3. Could be, or they retconed him not be able to go SSJ in movie so that in Movie 6 he could use Shunkan Ido.

[Zephyr]

The zapping isn't an in-universe event.
Garlic Jr. however appears in the anime, which follows the normal timeline, so that can't be right.
How do you explain Goku's outfit and his Kaioken x 10 in Movie 3 though?

Then why is it being brought up in an in universe discussion in the in universe forum?

Movie one leads to two different timelines. The first one, where everyone loses their memory, leads to the anime happening as per usual, until they get their memory back upon seeing Garlic Jr. again. The second one, where they do not lose their memory, leads to the Saiyan arc and Namek arc happening much differently, leading to movies 2, 3, and 4.

The man wanted to wear a different outfit, and he trained to increase the Kaioken level he could reach.

You do realize movies are alternative universes?

Yes. That's why I've been theorizing how these alternate universes are possible, from an in universe perspective, in a thread in the in universe forum.

Piccolo should be dead in M3 along with the others and they are alive.

Which means events must have occurred that resulted in the dead heroes being revived, without Goku also becoming SSj in the process. Which I explained the possibility of in my post. I'll post it again:

Garlic Jr. made his move on world domination between the 23rd TB and the Saiyan arc. This leads to Gohan's power being known to all of the heroes before the Saiyan arc even happens. This drastically alters the Saiyan arc, in which Gohan is a more capable fighter. With a more confident and better trained Gohan, Goku does not get as badly wounded against Vegeta, and is able to embark to Namek with Bulma, Gohan, and Krillin.

Not wanting to deal with Goku and Freeza at the same time, Vegeta opts for a truce with the heroes much sooner, so as to take out the bigger threat (Freeza). Piccolo is (possibly) wished back sooner, due to them being able to gather the Dragon Balls much more quickly. Freeza kills Vegeta, but is himself killed before ever getting the chance to transform, through everyone's combined efforts (with a Taiyoken + Kienzan combo possibly playing a part). The dead heroes are brought back in whatever is the most convenient combination of the two Dragon Ball sets.

Movies 2, 3, and 4 follow from this.

Goku and Vegeta being alive in M13 is irrelevant and yes it happens at that time. Pure Boo never existed in M13 time line.

Yes it is relevant. Vegeta was dead during the fight with Evil Buu. Pure Buu's existence was the catalyst that ultimately ended up returning Vegeta to life.

Gohan is weaker than Goku because he was not known to be stronger during the time of M8 production

Again, yes, that is the out of universe explanation. I presented an in universe explanation. In the in universe forum.

Goku and Gohan not staying SSJs is because the movie is an alternative universe

Which is also something I agree with, and presented an in universe explanation for in the in universe forum.


Following your guys' logic, Path to Power has to take place in the middle of GT.

[RandomGuy96]

3. Could be, or they retconed him not be able to go SSJ in movie so that in Movie 6 he could use Shunkan Ido.

Maybe, but PIS is a simpler and more logical explanation as well as an in universe one.

[dbzfan7]

3. Could be, or they retconed him not be able to go SSJ in movie so that in Movie 6 he could use Shunkan Ido.

Maybe, but PIS is a simpler and more logical explanation as well as an in universe one.

Most likely. Toei never gives a shit about this stuff so that's the best answer.

[Cardle grave]

I meant Coola didn't appear in M12, yet Sauzer did, so it means nothing Hatchiyack didn't appear in M12.

- But that doesnt make sense, If he appeared then M5 happened in the same universe as M12 just like M8 where paragus appear. And its an OVA. you dont see games toei releasing now have anything to do with the movies and there timelines.


It's the same jacket all the time.He retained the bulkiness from his Second Grade form post-2nd Rosat.His jacket would rip apart in M9, if he went into the same SSJ form, as in M8.Yet it didn't.

- But he didn't have sleeves in M9 for it to rip, And i showed you the designs for all the movies for Vegeta and Trunks. M8 designs are the same as M9


- These are all the designs for the movies.

It doesn't mean nothing.It's clearly based off that scene.Vegeta kicks RSSJ Broli to no effect and starts freaking out, it's the same with Cell, after he kicks him in the neck.

- I can match but i still don't see what the point of it

These are M8 Vegeta sketches:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... LLHF5LnHXS
Again, like I said earlier, both Vegeta and Trunks look buff as just SSJ post-2nd Rosat.So they would look about the same M8 and M9.

- Ok So where getting somewhere there both 2nd post as would the designs would show.

[miguelnuva1]

This is how I place them.


Dead Zone: After DB and before the Radtiz fight.

Worlds's Strongest: Alternate reality where Goku arrives and beats Nappa and Vegeta before aPiccolo dies. Best fits right after the fight with Vegeta.

Tree of Might: Goku arrives and saves everyone here. Best fits during the namek saga before the Captain Ginyu fight.

Lord Slug: Best fits during the Ginyu saga. Assuming Goku beat Ginyu without losing his body and then beat 1st form Frieza and Vegeta after reviving Piccolo.

Cooler's revenge: Goku comes straight home after beating Frieza and does no yadrat training.

Return of Cooler: retcons the events of Cooler's revenge to the start of the 3 year training for the Androids. Best fits at the end of the Android training despite Dende being on Earth. Goku is the only one that sees Vegeta as a SSJ and everyone is early Android saga tire.

Super 13: Best fits in Imperfect Cell saga. Assuming Piccolo destroys Cell and later 17 and 18 and 16 is somehow brought down by the Z warriors.

Broly 1: Best fits in the 10 days of waiting for the Cell games. Assuming Vegeta or Trunks beats Cell or Piccolo is in the ROSAT as Vegeta and Trunks use SSJgr2 still. Goku is stronger than Gohan, could be due to Cell's defeat or Gohan just not being confident.

Bojack Unbound: Best fits after Cell games.

Broly 2: Best fits pre 25th Budokai. Broly is revealed to have survived and is awakened 7 years later. Goten and Trunks are look for the dragonballs to show Videl and Gohan is still preparing for the budokai. Seeing Videl, Goten and Trunks hurt allow Gohan to go SSJ2.

Bio Broly: Best fits after Majin Vegeta vs Majin Buu. Assuming that Majin Vegeta beat Majin Buu and Goku goes back to the other world. Gohan could be in the other world or just didn't show up to help. In this universe due to the time placing Goku does not have SSJ3.

Fusion Reborn: Best fits after the Super Buu fight. Either Gohan or Gotenks kills Super Buu)original Manga ending universe). Goku is still dead and has increased his power, vegeta is still dead as well and with Buu gone has not received a body.

Warth of the Dragon: Best fits after Kid Buu is beat: Gohan and Gotenks say the same while Goku and Vegeta have increase in power with Goku beating Gohan and Gotenks. Goku learns Dragon fist.

[PerfectFreeza]

Dead Zone: After DB and before the Radtiz fight.
Can't be, beacuse Kuririn knows Gohan and Goku knows about Gohan's power.
Tree of Might: Goku arrives and saves everyone here. Best fits during the namek saga before the Captain Ginyu fight.
Can't be too, because then there would be no reason to go to Namek(besides reviving Chiaotzu), if Piccolo was saved.Yet the Z-Fighters are significatnly stronger than their Saiyan saga counters and Goku knwos Kaioken x 10, which he couldn't use Pre his Gravity training.
Lord Slug: Best fits during the Ginyu saga. Assuming Goku beat Ginyu without losing his body and then beat 1st form Freeza and Vegeta after reviving Piccolo.
How are they then on Earth?
Broly 1: Best fits in the 10 days of waiting for the Cell games. Assuming Vegeta or Trunks beats Cell or Piccolo is in the ROSAT as Vegeta and Trunks use SSJgr2 still. Goku is stronger than Gohan, could be due to Cell's defeat or Gohan just not being confident.
Can't be, because Goku is only a minor bit stronger than Vegeta in M8.Gohan's confidence shouldn't play a part in his power.He was told by Goku to leave.
Broly 2: Best fits pre 25th Budokai. Broly is revealed to have survived and is awakened 7 years later. Goten and Trunks are look for the dragonballs to show Videl and Gohan is still preparing for the budokai. Seeing Videl, Goten and Trunks hurt allow Gohan to go SSJ2.
She would know about their extreme powers and HercuIe's inferiorioty to the Z-Fighters, therefore his lie about him defeating Cell, if it took place pre.
Fusion Reborn: Best fits after the Super Buu fight. Either Gohan or Gotenks kills Super Buu)original Manga ending universe). Goku is still dead and has increased his power, vegeta is still dead as well and with Buu gone has not received a body.
Wouldn't that make Fat Janemba stronger than Super Buu, therefore making Goku much stronger than Super Buu?Gohan would power up against Freeza, as he does in M13 against Hildegarn, if he was Ultimate.
Warth of the Dragon: Best fits after Kid Buu is beat: Gohan and Gotenks say the same while Goku and Vegeta have increase in power with Goku beating Gohan and Gotenks. Goku learns Dragon fist.
Where is Good Buu?And Goku should be still inferior to the two half saiyans at EOZ, when he thinks of Pure Buu(uub) as a challenge.