Dream Cross-Overs with other series

[Storm]

How does that make any sense at all? Toryama makes these characters. He decides their traits, their personalities, etc. If he says that Goku is a bad father, it's probably due to the fact that the way he was written made him into a bad father.

Death Of The Author.

Is Goku the best dad in the world? No. Does he sometimes fuck up and make bad decisions, like any human (or Saiyan)? Yeah. Does he love his son(s) and has laid his life down multiple times for them? Yeah. I think people are really reaching here; there's more to parenting than being a great parent or a bad one.

[ABED]

Giving Cell a senzu isn't Goku being a bad father. Gohan was FAR stronger than Cell, all he needed to do was release his power. He should've told Gohan about his strategy instead of keeping it a secret, though I suspect that was more for the reader's benefit than any in universe explanation.

Goku's not a great dad, but he's not terrible either. He loves his kids and he's there for more of their childhoods than we see. He's a worse spouce than a father.

[Kamiccolo9]

How does that make any sense at all? Toryama makes these characters. He decides their traits, their personalities, etc. If he says that Goku is a bad father, it's probably due to the fact that the way he was written made him into a bad father.

Death Of The Author.

Is Goku the best dad in the world? No. Does he sometimes fuck up and make bad decisions, like any human (or Saiyan)? Yeah. Does he love his son(s) and has laid his life down multiple times for them? Yeah. I think people are really reaching here; there's more to parenting than being a great parent or a bad one.

I've read it. And I disagree entirely. Anyone who says that the creator has no say in what his creations do, think, act, etc., has instantly lost all credibility with me.

Goku can be a good person, and still be a bad father. Not everyone is meant to be a parent. This doesn't make them less of a person; they just aren't cut out for that kind of responsibility. Parenting obviously isn't Goku's strong point. I don't see how anyone could seriously say that Goku is a good parent. For some reason, people seem to think this demeans Goku, but I think it makes him human. He's not perfect. He's not meant to be a good parent; he's not written that way. That's part of his character.

[Storm]

He's a worse spouse than a father.

This so much.

I've read it. And I disagree entirely. Anyone who says that the creator has no say in what his creations do, think, act, etc., has instantly lost all credibility with me.

Then I guess this conversation won't be going anywhere.

[ABED]

He's not a terrible parent either. There are degrees. He cares about his family and would fight to the death to keep them safe. There's more to the job than that, but people make him out to be the worst parent ever.

[TheGmGoken]

Don't quote interviews unless you can provide a source.

I found it. Then you posted it. YOU BASTARD xD

Why should he believe you? How does he know that's from a real interview? There are plenty of fake ones floating around.

There fake interviews on this website in the interviews(translation) section?

I believe that's what you're talking about.

Yup

[Rocketman]

Yu-Gi-Oh!

...what? DB characters liked to play Card Games in-universe :P

Exodia obliterates.

[Hades]

Goku never tried to kill his own sons. Seriously, this "Goku is an awful dad" nonsense has got to stop.

Big Boss only tried to kill Solid Snake twice, and at least he never threw his sons into the path of nigh-unstoppable monsters.

[Hades]

How does that make any sense at all? Toryama makes these characters. He decides their traits, their personalities, etc. If he says that Goku is a bad father, it's probably due to the fact that the way he was written made him into a bad father.

Death Of The Author.

Is Goku the best dad in the world? No. Does he sometimes fuck up and make bad decisions, like any human (or Saiyan)? Yeah. Does he love his son(s) and has laid his life down multiple times for them? Yeah. I think people are really reaching here; there's more to parenting than being a great parent or a bad one.

I've read it. And I disagree entirely. Anyone who says that the creator has no say in what his creations do, think, act, etc., has instantly lost all credibility with me.

Goku can be a good person, and still be a bad father. Not everyone is meant to be a parent. This doesn't make them less of a person; they just aren't cut out for that kind of responsibility. Parenting obviously isn't Goku's strong point. I don't see how anyone could seriously say that Goku is a good parent. For some reason, people seem to think this demeans Goku, but I think it makes him human. He's not perfect. He's not meant to be a good parent; he's not written that way. That's part of his character.

Except, in every other attribute, he is a mary sue ("Purity of heart", HARD MEN decisions never coming back to bite him unlike Vegeta, always gets stronger despite being beaten badly, and perfect beyond perfection).

[Sin]

http://www.fanfiction.net/crossovers/Dragon-Ball-Z/83/ - It's amazing to see how many crossovers people have not only thought of, but thought of to the extent of publishing material on them. I mean really, DB x iCarly?

Anyway I totally agree with Hunter x Hunter, I only started watching it recently and am up to the Heavens Arena episodes but I totally have the DB feeling from it and I love how there hasn't been any unexplained power hax (so far). I'd also like to see a YYH crossover but it'd have to be done right and with the old style of animation.

Not sure if it counts but it'd be cool to see an in-universe crossover, Goten stumbles upon a capsule containing a time machine at the Briefs' house and ends up going back in time where he unknowingly assumes the role of Kid Goku.

[ABED]

always gets stronger despite being beaten badly

It's a fiction, so if Toriyama says Saiyans get stronger, they get stronger. Plus it's a world with magic beans. Please stop with the "hard men making hard decisions" this isn't that game you keep harping on about. It's a might more lighthearted series, which is completely valid.

Big Boss only tried to kill Solid Snake twice, and at least he never threw his sons into the path of nigh-unstoppable monsters.

That's not the same at all! Goku was confident Gohan was stronger than Cell, which he was right about by the way, and he was confident Goten and Trunks together could defeat Buu. The fact that you equate that to attempting to murder them means I have a hard time taking you seriously.

[Hades]

Except, both Metal Gear games occurred when Solid Snake was an adult and a soldier, while Goku decided it would be a good idea to throw his children to nigh-unstoppable monsters, and they were only saved by plot fiat (then again, there's a lot of that in metal gear).

Just because it's "lighthearted" doesn't mean it can't be picked apart, and Spec Ops: The Line tears Shonen to pieces. Imagine Goku with all his illusions torn away from him and forced to look at what he does in a hellish environment. But that's enough of that.

[ABED]

Except, both Metal Gear games occurred when Solid Snake was an adult and a soldier, while Goku decided it would be a good idea to throw his children to nigh-unstoppable monsters, and they were only saved by plot fiat (then again, there's a lot of that in metal gear).

Just because it's "lighthearted" doesn't mean it can't be picked apart, and Spec Ops: The Line tears Shonen to pieces. Imagine Goku with all his illusions torn away from him and forced to look at what he does in a hellish environment. But that's enough of that.

And just because it's dark doesn't make it more realistic. No, but it does mean there are different expectations going in to it. I don't go into a Batman movie expecting a light tone, nor a Superman movie expecting a depressing film, which is why Superman Returns missed the mark.

Gohan was "saved" because he was strong. Would you rather Goku fight Cell and everyone die? The monsters weren't unstoppable, that was the point of why let his kids fight them.

I'd rather watch a Shonen series than Spec Ops. If Goku looked at what he did, he'd see that he saved the world plenty of times. You like darker stuff, which is okay, but much of that comes down to your bleak view of the world, so the art you enjoy reflects that. If some story isn't that bleak, it's not real, and thus flawed to you. One wonders why you are even a fan of Dragon Ball, much less a member of this board if you have such a problem with this show. I haven't seen a single post where you show any enthusiasm for it.

A YYH and DB cross over could be cool, but it depends on the point in DB where the cross over takes place since even Raizen (the strongest character in YYH) would be no match for Goku at a certain point.

[Hades]

And just because it's dark doesn't make it more realistic. No, but it does mean there are different expectations going in to it. I don't go into a Batman movie expecting a light tone, nor a Superman movie expecting a depressing film, which is why Superman Returns missed the mark.

The Death of Superman is a classic, despite being the darkest Superman story (and Red Son for that matter).

Gohan was "saved" because he was strong. Would you rather Goku fight Cell and everyone die? The monsters weren't unstoppable, that was the point of why let his kids fight them.

It's standard shonen cliche of child soldiers being the hero, and not somehow being adversely affected. Gohan goes through worse than what Captain Walker does, yet he's somehow not a guilty, jibbering wreck by the end.

I'd rather watch a Shonen series than Spec Ops. If Goku looked at what he did, he'd see that he saved the world plenty of times. You like darker stuff, which is okay, but much of that comes down to your bleak view of the world, so the art you enjoy reflects that. If some story isn't that bleak, it's not real, and thus flawed to you. One wonders why you are even a fan of Dragon Ball, much less a member of this board if you have such a problem with this show. I haven't seen a single post where you show any enthusiasm for it.

I'm just the jaded and cynical dragonball fan. I like it, but I've become more jaded and cynical as I've grown up. Besides, you should play Spec Ops: The Line, since it utterly destroys the Shonen narrative.

ETA: It's the same way a Spec Ops fan can still appreciate Halo/Cod and the like.

[ABED]

And just because it's dark doesn't make it more realistic. No, but it does mean there are different expectations going in to it. I don't go into a Batman movie expecting a light tone, nor a Superman movie expecting a depressing film, which is why Superman Returns missed the mark.

The Death of Superman is a classic, despite being the darkest Superman story (and Red Son for that matter).

Gohan was "saved" because he was strong. Would you rather Goku fight Cell and everyone die? The monsters weren't unstoppable, that was the point of why let his kids fight them.

It's standard shonen cliche of child soldiers being the hero, and not somehow being adversely affected. Gohan goes through worse than what Captain Walker does, yet he's somehow not a guilty, jibbering wreck by the end.

I'd rather watch a Shonen series than Spec Ops. If Goku looked at what he did, he'd see that he saved the world plenty of times. You like darker stuff, which is okay, but much of that comes down to your bleak view of the world, so the art you enjoy reflects that. If some story isn't that bleak, it's not real, and thus flawed to you. One wonders why you are even a fan of Dragon Ball, much less a member of this board if you have such a problem with this show. I haven't seen a single post where you show any enthusiasm for it.

I'm just the jaded and cynical dragonball fan. I like it, but I've become more jaded and cynical as I've grown up. Besides, you should play Spec Ops: The Line, since it utterly destroys the Shonen narrative.

I've seen better Superman stories than The Death of Superman, and even that wasn't all that dark and depressing, despite him dying. It's an okay story, but I prefer a number of episodes of the Bruce Timm Superman animated series.

Excpet it's not the real world, Walker doesn't live in a world of mysticism, dinosaurs and superpowers, so the parallel is weak. What the hell would Gohan feel guilty for? By the way, not everyone deals with trauma the same way. For every "captain walker" there are plenty of healthy and well adjusted soldiers.

Jaded and cynical, I buy, but I've never seen you show any joy for the series. It's always criticism. Criticism is fine, but if all you do is come to a fan forum to complain, then it's a waste of everyone's time, your's included. I don't care to see the shonen narrative destroyed. I'm not drawn to stories for "realism".

[Hades]

I've seen better Superman stories than The Death of Superman, and even that wasn't all that dark and depressing, despite him dying. It's an okay story, but I prefer a number of episodes of the Bruce Timm Superman animated series.

I was merely saying that despite being "dark", some superman stories are considered among the best.

Excpet it's not the real world, Walker doesn't live in a world of mysticism, dinosaurs and superpowers, so the parallel is weak. What the hell would Gohan feel guilty for? By the way, not everyone deals with trauma the same way. For every "captain walker" there are plenty of healthy and well adjusted soldiers.

You'd be surprised about how many soldiers come back with PTSD and find it difficult to return to society, to the extent that 1 in 10 British prisoners have been in the military. Frankly, when it comes down to it, I prefer the War is Hell trope to Dragonball's War is Glorious.

[ABED]

I've seen better Superman stories than The Death of Superman, and even that wasn't all that dark and depressing, despite him dying. It's an okay story, but I prefer a number of episodes of the Bruce Timm Superman animated series.

I was merely saying that despite being "dark", some superman stories are considered among the best.

Excpet it's not the real world, Walker doesn't live in a world of mysticism, dinosaurs and superpowers, so the parallel is weak. What the hell would Gohan feel guilty for? By the way, not everyone deals with trauma the same way. For every "captain walker" there are plenty of healthy and well adjusted soldiers.

You'd be surprised about how many soldiers come back with PTSD and find it difficult to return to society, to the extent that 1 in 10 British prisoners have been in the military. Frankly, when it comes down to it, I prefer the War is Hell trope to Dragonball's War is Glorious.

The Death of Superman isn't dark.

PTSD is treatable, and I said "plenty" not "all." Lots of soldiers return to civilian life and do just fine, many understand what they did and why, and take no shame in protecting their life, their country, and the life of their fellow soldiers. I've been around soldiers since both of my grandfathers and my dad were in the military. I enjoy First Blood, but not every Vietnam vet is John Rambo.

Dragon Ball is not a war story, it's simply good vs evil. Not every story has to be morally complex, and the whole "war is hell" and "killing is bad" regardless of context is just as much a trope as anything else. And Dragon Ball doesn't say "war is glorious."

[Hades]

The Death of Superman isn't dark.

Really? Superman dying after a brutal and agonising fight with doomsday "isn't dark"?

PTSD is treatable, and I said "plenty" not "all." Lots of soldiers return to civilian life and do just fine, many understand what they did and why, and take no shame in protecting their life, their country, and the life of their fellow soldiers. I've been around soldiers since both of my grandfathers and my dad were in the military. I enjoy First Blood, but not every Vietnam vet is John Rambo.

Fair enough. However, soldiers/veterans in the US are more likely to commit suicide than most other people.

Dragon Ball is not a war story, it's simply good vs evil. Not every story has to be morally complex, and the whole "war is hell" and "killing is bad" regardless of context is just as much a trope as anything else. And Dragon Ball doesn't say "war is glorious."

Really? The whole "be a soldier at 5 and become a hero!" angle with Gohan, sadistic training regimens that the gunny from FMJ would consider extreme being considered character building, said training regimens enabling Goku to take on entire armies, Gohan being able to shrug off his experiences are good signs that DBZ follows "war is glorious".

[Sin]

A YYH and DB cross over could be cool, but it depends on the point in DB where the cross over takes place since even Raizen (the strongest character in YYH) would be no match for Goku at a certain point.

In my head I think DBZ movie 1 would work well as a YYH crossover.

[Ringworm128]

Your whole stance on story telling seems to be "everything should be dark and gritty for the sake of being dark and gritty." Really? The whole "be a soldier at 5 and become a hero!" angle with Gohan, sadistic training regimens that the gunny from FMJ would consider extreme being considered character building, said training regimens enabling Goku to take on entire armies, Gohan being able to shrug off his experiences are good signs that DBZ follows "war is glorious". No they're just good signs that it's a light hearted action series for kids. Should Luigi's Mansion have explored the effects of someone who goes deep into a dark mansion and spends who knows how long looking for his brother in pitch black rooms while ghosts constantly give him jump scares that would possibly almost give someone a heart attack IRL? Should the ending have been Mario and Luigi at a theropist after the events they both went through? Of coarse not. Because Luigi's Mansion isn't that sort of game.