As Villains go how can they top a God of Destruction?

[Saiga]

The Wicked Avatar from Yugioh R, or something like it. Something that makes all the faffing about with transformations useless because it just readjusts to always be stronger.

Huh, guess I'm not the only one to think of this for a Dragon Ball villain. If it happened I would really hope they don't pull some bullshit like making him adjust to a weakling's strength though.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

One thing I always like about the Egyptian Gods (especially Ra) is that they always had this sense of presence to them, something that Omega Shenron lacked.

I need to watch his segment again, because I vaguely remember him having a couple good bits near the end.

Beers sorta had that "feel" to him but still.. it doesn't quite match up to that feeling of inferiority one gets when ever an Egyptian God or Exodia showed up its probably because they look waaay more intimidating than most DB villains.

Isn't it agreed upon that Toriyama intentionally subverts that, though? Monsters out of Dragon Ball seems to be Toei's job, and they don't have a fruitless track record.

I remember having that "holy shit" moment when Gosuboro summoned Exodia Nercros and getting excited when Dark Marik (my favorite Yu-gi-oh villain) summoned or spoke about The Winged Dragon of motherfucking Ra.

Spoiler:

You're talking the one guy who was waiting for the Leviathan the entire Doma arc.

[InfernalVegito]

One thing I always like about the Egyptian Gods (especially Ra) is that they always had this sense of presence to them, something that Omega Shenron lacked.

Beers sorta had that "feel" to him but still.. it doesn't quite match up to that feeling of inferiority one gets when ever an Egyptian God or Exodia showed up its probably because they look waaay more intimidating than most DB villains.

I remember having that "holy shit" moment when Gosuboro summoned Exodia Nercros and getting excited when Dark Marik (my favorite Yu-gi-oh villain) summoned or spoke about The Winged Dragon of motherfucking Ra.

That's also because, at least for me, the Egyptian Gods had grand themes accompanying their appearances. I mean this is truly awe-inspiring and overwhelmingly goosebumps inducing which goes perfectly with their godlike portrayal.

Of course, given the fact that you were talking about a dub where that score was used, as I believe this isn't the original Japanese one.

[Rocketman]

Huh, guess I'm not the only one to think of this for a Dragon Ball villain. If it happened I would really hope they don't pull some bullshit like making him adjust to a weakling's strength though.

That wouldn't work anyway. Avatar's effect is continuous, so if it was copying Krillin, then as it went to punch Krillin Goku teleported in to sneak-attack, it would instantly copy Goku. If just before it punched Krillin, Goku lent his energy, the Avatar would immediately readjust to be stronger than Krillin became.

Avatar can never, ever be overpowered. And since all Dragonball does is overpower...

[Kamiccolo9]

Huh, guess I'm not the only one to think of this for a Dragon Ball villain. If it happened I would really hope they don't pull some bullshit like making him adjust to a weakling's strength though.

That wouldn't work anyway. Avatar's effect is continuous, so if it was copying Krillin, then as it went to punch Krillin Goku teleported in to sneak-attack, it would instantly copy Goku. If just before it punched Krillin, Goku lent his energy, the Avatar would immediately readjust to be stronger than Krillin became.

Avatar can never, ever be overpowered. And since all Dragonball does is overpower...

Piccolo saves the day by discarding Effect Veiler from his hand.

[Bullza]

If they ever were to show other Gods of Destruction what appearances would you want them to be based upon?

Different Egyptian Gods? Different Gods amongst different religions? Completely random designs?

[Rocketman]

Piccolo saves the day by discarding Effect Veiler from his hand.

Wouldn't work on the manga's Avatar - it's a supreme God Card and therefore immune to all monster effects except the Winged Dragon of Ra.

Would technically work on the real-world Avatar, but Veiler only works on the opponent's turn. By the time you can attack, Veiler has worn off and Avatar recalculates.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

One thing I always like about the Egyptian Gods (especially Ra) is that they always had this sense of presence to them, something that Omega Shenron lacked.

Beers sorta had that "feel" to him but still.. it doesn't quite match up to that feeling of inferiority one gets when ever an Egyptian God or Exodia showed up its probably because they look waaay more intimidating than most DB villains.

I remember having that "holy shit" moment when Gosuboro summoned Exodia Nercros and getting excited when Dark Marik (my favorite Yu-gi-oh villain) summoned or spoke about The Winged Dragon of motherfucking Ra.

That's also because, at least for me, the Egyptian Gods had grand themes accompanying their appearances. I mean this is truly awe-inspiring and overwhelmingly goosebumps inducing which goes perfectly with their godlike portrayal.

Of course, given the fact that you were talking about a dub where that score was used, as I believe this isn't the original Japanese one.

There is a style difference between Kikuchi and the YGO musicians, on both sides of the Pacific. If you want to nail Kikuchi for being dated, the relative... dare I say "cheese" factor of a lot of his score is the place to do it.

Also, to complete the off-topic; 4kids Ra (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMTVC-mfw50), Japanese Gods (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5F4LZruoNc)

[InfernalVegito]

I would be one of the last to call Kikuchi's music 'dated'. Not just because I grew up with it but because I believe anything can fit anything as long as it's placed appropriately.

And as for the difference between YGO's musicians and Kikuchi, I can notice that. At least for the non Japanese score, since it is the one I know only. I just posted that one example because it always manages to evoke that grand feeling of inferiority and awe we were talking about. Truly phenomenal orchestration. Always sends shivers down my spine.

But I don't know if such a being, accompanied with that kind of music would fit Dragon Ball.

[Saiga]

Huh, guess I'm not the only one to think of this for a Dragon Ball villain. If it happened I would really hope they don't pull some bullshit like making him adjust to a weakling's strength though.

That wouldn't work anyway. Avatar's effect is continuous, so if it was copying Krillin, then as it went to punch Krillin Goku teleported in to sneak-attack, it would instantly copy Goku. If just before it punched Krillin, Goku lent his energy, the Avatar would immediately readjust to be stronger than Krillin became.

Avatar can never, ever be overpowered. And since all Dragonball does is overpower...

Oh, I'm aware that Avatar can't be beaten that way since it's always based on the strongest monster on the field, but I think someone else mentioned getting around that hypothetical villain by having Yamcha and Kuririn fight and reduce it's power. I was just referring to that.

[goku the krump dancer]

Huh, guess I'm not the only one to think of this for a Dragon Ball villain. If it happened I would really hope they don't pull some bullshit like making him adjust to a weakling's strength though.

That wouldn't work anyway. Avatar's effect is continuous, so if it was copying Krillin, then as it went to punch Krillin Goku teleported in to sneak-attack, it would instantly copy Goku. If just before it punched Krillin, Goku lent his energy, the Avatar would immediately readjust to be stronger than Krillin became.

Avatar can never, ever be overpowered. And since all Dragonball does is overpower...

Oh, I'm aware that Avatar can't be beaten that way since it's always based on the strongest monster on the field, but I think someone else mentioned getting around that hypothetical villain by having Yamcha and Kuririn fight and reduce it's power. I was just referring to that.

This thing's gotta have some kind of weakness though especially when you adapt it to something that doesn't have magic or trap cards. I wasn't really sure how the monster's ability worked.. I mean, I havent played or watched Yugioh in eons.

I still think it can be over powered if its out smarted, depending on the scenario. Similar to the ending of the Cell Games, say this monster doesnt have the ability to sense ki, it's whole thing is that it copies the strength of its opponent or what has it attention at the moment. So while the "Avatar" is in a beam struggle with Gogeta, a weaker person could try to distract it, now it sorta forgets about Gogeta and its new main focus is Krillin or whomever, similar to how Cell was distracted by Vegeta. So now its power reasserts it self to match the earthling only to be engulfed by the blast from the Goku, Vegeta fusion.

However if that still doesnt work, then the only way to beat it is to seal it away, which would be kinda lame unless the only person who could do it was Kaioshin who had to have the incantation taught to him by the Elder Kai because he is too old and lacks the vitality it would take to do it himself.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Mafuba.... Bye bye Wicked Avatar-ish thing.

[Rocketman]

This thing's gotta have some kind of weakness though especially when you adapt it to something that doesn't have magic or trap cards. I wasn't really sure how the monster's ability worked.. I mean, I havent played or watched Yugioh in eons.

It's from a manga-only storyline, so no worries. It was developed as a counter to the Egyptian Gods, so it shares their immunity to (basically) all 'lesser' effects, plus the "always stronger" effect so no matter how much Obelisk, Slifer and Ra increase their attack, Avatar can always kill them.

Only three things are shown/implied to work:

1. Ra's Phoenix Mode effect (the one that destroys all opposing monsters for 1000 LP), because Ra is Avatar's equal.
2. Obelisk using its effect to make its attack power Infinity, so Avatar can't adjust to be stronger. Plus Yugi using the enemy's broken card against him and upgrading Obelisk on the divine hierarchy to be Ra and Avatar's equal because otherwise Avatar would just ignore the attack. Obelisk and Avatar destroyed each other.
3. The card Union Attack in the manga allows all monsters you control to attack at once, but does not add their attack strength into one monster. So if Avatar is 2701 atk and this card allows a 2700 and 2000 atk monster to attack together, Avatar would be destroyed.

The last is how it would have to go in a DB crossover, but even then DB works against itself because in DB multiple small attacks don't add up.


See that's how I'd wrap up the fight. Avatar beats up everybody for the movie, even Gogeta/SSG, hell, even Billy and Whiz. But by the end, everybody is so weakened that they're all roughly equal. So Avatar's form starts to flicker between all the fighters gathered, and they realize this is the chance! They give all their energy to Goku and Avatar kills him. They all rush at once, and Avatar is killed because it can't copy anybody strong enough to tank everything.

[Saiga]

Huh, my idea for a villain with that power was even more difficult. He had the sum of their power, so there was no fucking with him like that either.

[goku the krump dancer]

3. The card Union Attack in the manga allows all monsters you control to attack at once, but does not add their attack strength into one monster. So if Avatar is 2701 atk and this card allows a 2700 and 2000 atk monster to attack together, Avatar would be destroyed.

See that's how I'd wrap up the fight. Avatar beats up everybody for the movie, even Gogeta/SSG, hell, even Billy and Whiz. But by the end, everybody is so weakened that they're all roughly equal. So Avatar's form starts to flicker between all the fighters gathered, and they realize this is the chance! They give all their energy to Goku and Avatar kills him. They all rush at once, and Avatar is killed because it can't copy anybody strong enough to tank everything.

Interesting, now that I think about it, that actually wouldn't be anything too out of the ordinary. Goku and Vegeta had to attack Metal Cooler at the same time in order to cause him any type of harm and then on top of that Vegeta had to keep blasting him to stop Cooler from putting himself back together.

The last is how it would have to go in a DB crossover, but even then DB works against itself because in DB multiple small attacks don't add up.

Even though I kinda already answered this, theres also Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans where every one who has there to fight Hatchiyack had to attack him at the same time in order to take him out. Its weird though because its not like they all gave Goku their energy but all their attacks combined into one large blast so it was a 1 vs 4 (in the original) and 1 vs 5 (in the remake) beam struggle, so Idk if the Avatar would be able to become strong enough to stop it since the blast is coming from multiple people instead of one guy like you said.

Regardless, I think it would be a pretty nice moment in the series if everyone from Goku down to Yamcha all physically helped to deal the finishing blow. At least then we wont have to hear people say "Oh, My favorite character didn't do anything".

[TheGmGoken]

How about a technology bad guy. Not like Cyborgs but someone who use technology(ki guns or paralyize) to aid them.

[Polyphase Avatron]

How about a technology bad guy. Not like Cyborgs but someone who use technology(ki guns or paralyize) to aid them.

Like those guys from DBM?

[TheGmGoken]

How about a technology bad guy. Not like Cyborgs but someone who use technology(ki guns or paralyize) to aid them.

Like those guys from DBM?

What guys? Sorry I didn't get the idea from Dbm so Idk what you're talking about

[KentalSSJ6]

How about a technology bad guy. Not like Cyborgs but someone who use technology(ki guns or paralyize) to aid them.

Like those guys from DBM?

What guys? Sorry I didn't get the idea from Dbm so Idk what you're talking about

The guy who cuts off Uubs arm. His race.

[Bullza]

I dunno if I'd like a villain who uses powerful tools rather than using his own power. It would seem farfetched there'd be guns that would fire energy to worry Goku.

I think a Dragon God would definitely be the best option.

1. You can't get much more intimidating than a Dragon.

2. It'd allow the chance to get to know what the Dragon's are. They could have their own realm.

3. It needs the next villain to not just be more powerful but to also have new powerful abilities that haven't really been done before. Like Shenron and Porunga it would have wish granting (magical) abilities that put Buu's to shame. It could bring back the dead to aid him, he'd have reality altering powers.