Because everyone in DB totally powers down to have a challenge. Especially when they have to save friends.TheMightyOzaru wrote:He's a Saiyan. A challenge would preferable for him.hleV wrote:I'm waiting for a decent explanation for why would Vegetto bother to revert to base. I mean... I probably wouldn't, because my focus would be on how to save my friends.
How strong is Base Vegetto?
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Saiyans prefer those challenges to make them go full power.TheMightyOzaru wrote:He's a Saiyan. A challenge would preferable for him.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Instead of fighting with his feet or after fighting with his feet, Vegetto could have just reverted back to base to show his superiority even further. He doesn't. Why?hleV wrote:I only disagree with what you think are implications to base Vegetto being inferior to Boo. I don't see them as implications, and I do my best to explain why.
Something's missing here... Oh, the implication(s) for Vegetto being weaker than Boo in base.
- Vegetto goes SS right off the bat for whatever reason (there can be plenty), even though he doesn't yet realize his power.
- Vegetto owns Boo and points out that he didn't expect it to be that easy.
- Vegetto tries to make Boo feel hopeless by humiliating him and showing superiority. This includes Vegetto fighting with just his feet, which definitely shows his superiority to Boo, but not reverting to base, which would or would not mean a damn to Boo.
Like I've explained, it would be perfectly consistent with what he was doing. So, he either didn't think about it, or he felt that what he was doing was enough and he didn't bother, or he wasn't confident that he could take on Buu with ease with just his base power.
Of these possibilities, considering Vegetto's personality, what he was trying to do and how he was behaving towards Buu, I find that the last possibility is the most likely.
There's nothing missing there. I just happen to have a opinion regarding which of those possibilities is the most likely based on Vegetto's personality, what he was trying to do and how he was behaving towards Buu.
Well, considering that the fusion Gokhan would "mix" the normal SSJ forms of Goku with Gohan's ultimate state, I have no idea how that would work.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: I was talking about base/SS Gokhan & base/SS Vegetto, not Ultimate "Gokhan". Ultimate Gohan is stronger than Vegeta, but base/SS/2 Vegeta is stronger than base/SS/2 Gohan, and since Goku & Vegeta match better, then base/SS/3 Vegetto should be stronger than base/SS/3 "Gokhan", with "Gokhan" surpassing him only with Ultimate.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Ultimate is base soooooo...
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
I believe it "overrides" the other forms (even though BOG was confusing in that regard), but since the fusion mixes it up with someone without that powerup... maybe he would a base and a Ultimate form, besides the SSJs forms? I have no idea.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ultimate is base soooooo...
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TheGmGoken
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
I think he can rival or even surpass Boohan. Just not humiliate him like he needed?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
It is implied in the manga & Daizenshuu, and shown in BoG & M13 that Gohan can either transform from his base into Super Saiyan & beyond, or power-up into Ultimate in base.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ultimate is base soooooo...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
You're under a false assumption that Vegetto reverting to base would've definitely added to Boo's feeling of hopelessness. It wouldn't be "He thinks he's stronger than me in base? It's hopeless then...", it would be "He's much weaker now, I may have a chance!". Basically, Boo would've focused on defeating this weaker form of Vegetto and the thought of absorbing him would likely have come later than it did with Vegetto keeping SS and showing his superiority in more fancy ways. Remember that Boo didn't realize he was inferior to SS Vegetto neither at first, divide Vegetto 50 times and Boo's even more cocky. There's also the fact that it was Vegetto who forced Boo to think of using the absorption technique, by giving him 10 seconds. Using the base form wouldn't have helped, really.rereboy wrote:Instead of fighting with his feet or after fighting with his feet, Vegetto could have just reverted back to base to show his superiority even further. He doesn't. Why?
Like I've explained, it would be perfectly consistent with what he was doing. So, he either didn't think about it, or he felt that what he was doing was enough and he didn't bother, or he wasn't confident that he could take on Buu with ease with just his base power.
Of these possibilities, considering Vegetto's personality, what he was trying to do and how he was behaving towards Buu, I find that the last possibility is the most likely.
There's nothing missing there. I just happen to have a opinion regarding which of those possibilities is the most likely based on Vegetto's personality, what he was trying to do and how he was behaving towards Buu.
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Buu would think he had a chance, until Vegetto proved that he was still so superior in his base that he still didn't have a chance, and then hopelessness would have hit Buu even harder than before. He would think "He... is really much stronger than me even in his just base... I thought I might have a chance of taking him on if he just used his base, but he is still toying with me even at his weakest... Its hopeless..."hleV wrote: You're under a false assumption that Vegetto reverting to base would've definitely added to Boo's feeling of hopelessness. It wouldn't be "He thinks he's stronger than me in base? It's hopeless then...", it would be "He's much weaker now, I may have a chance!". Basically, Boo would've focused on defeating this weaker form of Vegetto and the thought of absorbing him would likely have come later than it did with Vegetto keeping SS and showing his superiority in more fancy ways. Remember that Boo didn't realize he was inferior to SS Vegetto neither at first, divide Vegetto 50 times and Boo's even more cocky. There's also the fact that it was Vegetto who forced Boo to think of using the absorption technique, by giving him 10 seconds. Using the base form wouldn't have helped, really.
We've discussed this already. Vegetto limiting himself by reverting back follows the same logic as him limiting himself to using only his legs agaisnt Buu. It follows the same exact train of thought and its perfectly consistent. By Vegetto announcing that he only would use his legs, Buu might think he had a chance of taking him on, right until Vegetto proved to him that he still had no chance even in that situation.
Therefore, there are three possibilities for Vegetto not reverting:
- he didn't think about it;
- he felt that what he was doing was enough and he didn't bother;
- he wasn't confident that he could take on Buu with ease with just his base power.
You seem to gravitate more towards the second possibility. I, on the other hand, find the third one more likely. That's all there is to it.
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Gohan-Boo > Base Vegetto. There is no debate here
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Darkprince410
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
But there is debate still. Nothing in the manga definitively says that Vegetto in his base form is weaker than Gohan Buu, as he could have been stronger than him or equal to him, but he wanted to have an overwhelming superiority in strength to coax Buu into absorbing him, so he transformed. If he were equal or only a little bit above Buu while in his base form, Buu would still have the capacity to outright kill him.Kakashi wrote:Gohan-Boo > Base Vegetto. There is no debate here
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
I think Super Vegetto is only as strong as he needs to be to humiliate Gohan-Boo the way he did, and with Vegetto being 1/50th of that, I think he's around the same strength as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Vegetto is 1/50th of Super Vegetto's full power. Super Vegetto was not going all-out against Buu.Saiga wrote:I think Super Vegetto is only as strong as he needs to be to humiliate Gohan-Boo the way he did, and with Vegetto being 1/50th of that, I think he's around the same strength as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
It's still his base form sooooooooo...DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It is implied in the manga & Daizenshuu, and shown in BoG & M13 that Gohan can either transform from his base into Super Saiyan & beyond, or power-up into Ultimate in base.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ultimate is base soooooo...
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Never said he was.Rocketman wrote:Vegetto is 1/50th of Super Vegetto's full power. Super Vegetto was not going all-out against Buu.Saiga wrote:I think Super Vegetto is only as strong as he needs to be to humiliate Gohan-Boo the way he did, and with Vegetto being 1/50th of that, I think he's around the same strength as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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DarkPrince_92
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
If I judge by the anime, stronger than Buuhan. Dude knocked away his power ball with no effort. I too didn't see the point of him transforming. But then there's then manga... no telling if I go by that.
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
If Vegetto was close to Gohan-Boo he would of fought him IMO and then transformed. Even the Anime where everythhing is haxed has Gohan-Boo > Base VegettoDarkprince410 wrote:But there is debate still. Nothing in the manga definitively says that Vegetto in his base form is weaker than Gohan Buu, as he could have been stronger than him or equal to him, but he wanted to have an overwhelming superiority in strength to coax Buu into absorbing him, so he transformed. If he were equal or only a little bit above Buu while in his base form, Buu would still have the capacity to outright kill him.Kakashi wrote:Gohan-Boo > Base Vegetto. There is no debate here
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Vegetto was at full powerRocketman wrote:Vegetto is 1/50th of Super Vegetto's full power. Super Vegetto was not going all-out against Buu.Saiga wrote:I think Super Vegetto is only as strong as he needs to be to humiliate Gohan-Boo the way he did, and with Vegetto being 1/50th of that, I think he's around the same strength as Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
Your point?TheMightyOzaru wrote:It's still his base form sooooooooo...DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It is implied in the manga & Daizenshuu, and shown in BoG & M13 that Gohan can either transform from his base into Super Saiyan & beyond, or power-up into Ultimate in base.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ultimate is base soooooo...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: How strong is Base Vegetto?
He outright says that he is not.Kakashi wrote:Vegetto was at full power