Can King Cold transform?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:18 pm

Saiga wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Saiga wrote:The unseen Oozaru of Raditz and Nappa?
Didnt every single Saiyan get a Oozaru form in BT3?
Well, yeah. But we didn't see them in the manga or anime.
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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:20 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:If you seen one great ape then you've seen all of them.
Oozaru Goku, Nappa, Raditz, King Vegeta, and Vegeta are different from each other.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:22 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:If you seen one great ape then you've seen all of them.
Oozaru Goku, Nappa, Raditz, King Vegeta, and Vegeta are different from each other.
Besides in Video games where Raditz ape hair is long. They are ALL the same. If you mean amour then that's not that big compared to Cooler and Freezer's transformations.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:24 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:If you seen one great ape then you've seen all of them.
Oozaru Goku, Nappa, Raditz, King Vegeta, and Vegeta are different from each other.
Besides in Video games where Raditz ape hair is long. They are ALL the same. If you mean amour then that's not that big compared to Cooler and Freezer's transformations.
Oozaru Nappa has a receding hairline. Not sure about the others, though.
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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:38 pm

Vegeta has longer hair than others, King Vegeta also has a goatee, Nappa has shorter hair than others, and Raditz has much longer hair than others.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:44 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Vegeta has longer hair than others, King Vegeta also has a goatee, Nappa has shorter hair than others, and Raditz has much longer hair than others.
The average person is going to notice all of that? Lastly what the difference between Turles, Sepia, Bardock, and Kakarot's ape form?

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:14 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:The average person is going to notice all of that?
If he cares to pay any attention, yes.
TheGmGoken wrote:Lastly what the difference between Tullece, Sepia, Bardock, and Kakarot's ape form?
When did I say that these are different? Though Selipa has boobs. :Ρ
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:17 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:The average person is going to notice all of that?
If he cares to pay any attention, yes.
TheGmGoken wrote:Lastly what the difference between Tullece, Sepia, Bardock, and Kakarot's ape form?
When did I say that these are different? Though Selipa has boobs. :Ρ
You never said that. But I was talking about ALL the apes. Not a selective few. Besides Nappa got boobs as well. That ain't muscle my friend. That's fat man titties.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:23 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:You never said that. But I was talking about ALL the apes. Not a selective few.
But I only talked about a selective few, because only a selective few are different.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by TheGmGoken » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:25 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:You never said that. But I was talking about ALL the apes. Not a selective few.
But I only talked about a selective few, because only a selective few are different.
My original post said if you seen 1 ape then you seen them all. Besides minor differences. They all are the same.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by freezamite » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:46 pm

dbgtFO wrote:No, I don't think he can transform, as I don't see any reason for it.
With the example of Chilled it gives me the impression, that perhaps Freeza and Cold are the only ones who have the transforming ability, whereas Chilled and King Cold are stuck in the equivalents of first form Freeza and second form Freeza respectively.

Maybe transforming is theoretically possible for every member of Freeza's race, it might just be that only Freeza and Coola learn how to do it with Coola going even as far as a Fifth form.
It's dangerous to deduce things based on the movies. I mean, the movies where something completely apart from the manga, so nothing said or done there can be taken as proof of what Toriyama had on mind when he drew his comic.
At least speaking from the manga, Cold knows how to transform because he appears clearly transformed. Freezer's race doesn't transform to increase their strength, they transform in order to reduce it.
If Cold lacked a transformation, that would be the one with tiny horns and not his strongest, true form.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:50 pm

^
Well I wouldn't be surprised, if they got the wrong idea.
My view does indeed take DBZ M5 and Episode of Bardock into account. To be honest I always just thought, they started out in the equivalent to Freeza's first form and then just "evolved" by transforming.
It's first later, when I went over the original quote, that I got the impression, Freeza's starting point was actually his 4th form.
Regardless I still don't think King Cold can transform any further, if at all.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by freezamite » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:59 pm

dbgtFO wrote:^
Well I wouldn't be surprised, if they got the wrong idea.
My view does indeed take DBZ M5 and Episode of Bardock into account. To be honest I always just thought, they started out in the equivalent to Freeza's first form and then just "evolved" by transforming.
It's first later, when I went over the original quote, that I got the impression, Freeza's starting point was actually his 4th form.
Regardless I still don't think King Cold can transform any further, if at all.
Episode of Bardock was an ova and in fact it's completely canon, so it's legit if you base your speculations on it if you want.
But now speaking about the manga, or even with the manga + the Bardock ova on mind, I don't think that anything there points towards Cold being unable to transform. I mean, we are never told that he can't, he clearly appears in what's Freezer's 3rd form and as I said, this race of aliens distransformed instead of transforming.

With M5 on the picture things change. Cooler transforms to get stronger (which is a crime against the manga in terms of creating plotholes) and if he was able to do so and Freezer wasn't, then it could be possible for Cold to not be able to transform. But as I say, this is only if we give M5 more validity than the manga itself. If we don't there's no reason to think that Cold can not transform to every single one of Freezer's transformations, let alone it's non-transformed form.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by Captain Sauza » Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:58 am

Gonna say that he definitely cannot transform. Wish it was confirmed in any form of DBZ media though because I could've done without the lame King Cold transformations in DB Multiverse.
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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:35 pm

It wouldn't have mattered. Salagir explicitly ignores everything that's not the manga... and even what's in the manga isn't safe (King Cold is stated to be weaker than Freeza twice in the manga).
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He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:57 pm

I think it's fair to say that King Cold can't transform. Let's face it, if he was just like Frieza he would have show cased more power. King Cold was scared of Trunks, shoved into a corner practically, and even resorted to taking Trunks' sword in hopes that it would give him an advantage. Shouldn't this mean he had nothing else up his sleeve?

He should have already been full power.
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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by rereboy » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:03 pm

Eternal Super Saiyan wrote:I think it's fair to say that King Cold can't transform. Let's face it, if he was just like Freeza he would have show cased more power. King Cold was scared of Trunks, shoved into a corner practically, and even resorted to taking Trunks' sword in hopes that it would give him an advantage. Shouldn't this mean he had nothing else up his sleeve?

He should have already been full power.
Your conclusion is wrong. If Cold had transformations but his true form was weaker than Freeza, there was no point in transforming. His only shot was to try to either convince Trunks to join him or use Trunks' sword against him since he believed that the weapon that killed Freeza would also kill Trunks. In fact, if he had tried to transform, he would completely lose whatever hopes he had to surprise Trunks or convince him.

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Re: Can King Cold transform?

Post by Strife1 » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:30 pm

It's pretty likely that that's his actual true form. Othewise he wouldn't have been afraid of Trunks. When have we ever seen anyone in the series not use a transformation that they have when they're easily overpowered and there's no backup for after they die?
dbgtFO wrote:No, I don't think he can transform, as I don't see any reason for it.
With the example of Chilled it gives me the impression, that perhaps Freeza and Cold are the only ones who have the transforming ability, whereas Chilled and King Cold are stuck in the equivalents of first form Freeza and second form Freeza respectively.

Maybe transforming is theoretically possible for every member of Freeza's race, it might just be that only Freeza and Coola learn how to do it with Coola going even as far as a Fifth form.
The Cold family doesn't transform. They're actually just look a bit different in their true form, but they can create forms that are less powerful than their true forms since they have trouble controlling their true power.

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