Characters who got too much glory

[Nikkolas]

Okay, to start off with, the Announcer is a terrible referee. I thought everybody knew that. Do not count on him to do a proper 10 count in any match.

And while yes Roshi had Goku dead to rights with the lightning move, so what? Is it an ass pull that Goku became Super Saiyan against Freeza? Freeza had him dead to rights too.

And I wasn't analyzing every little detail. Otherwise I'd have mentioned that Chaotzu's interference gave Ten a ton of free shots while all he gave Goku was one to make up for it. That hardly made them "even."

Regardless of all these facts, the matches still ended up being very close. That is all I was saying. Goku could have easily won the 1st Tournament in canon if he had just been able to say he was the winner. Does't matter if there wer ea ton of ass-pulls. It certainly didn't make me feel any less frustrated when he lost.

[RandomGuy96]

Him being the main character is qutie arguable, which is why I don't like when people keep trying to use that as a justification. He's barley in most of the post-Raditz series, and in the end him being sloppily rewritten as the main character really dragged the series down.

Dragged the series down? You got to be kidding me!

Yes, Goku got to much glory time to time but without him, DB would be a failure!

Regardless, I'm aware that give more prominence to others, perhaps would have been a plus for the series!!!

No, I am not kidding. Goku, Vegeta, and Vegetto were absolutely toxic and nearly ruined the Majin Buu arc.

[MDSTSSJ]

He constantly puts his enjoyment of fights over everything else.

-Letting Vegeta go almost doomed earth as he would have returned before Goku healed. If Freeza didn't know about the Dragon Balls, earth would have been screwed.

-He could have killed Freeza instantly as an SSJ and saved Planet Namek...but nope he drags it out for no reason. He then let's Freeza go and the first thing he does is head to earth after being repaired. If Goku did not luckily learn Shunkan Ido, or Trunks didn't show up, then all his friends would have died before he got back.

-He could have stopped the Cyborg threat before it started by finding Dr. Gero and killing him. But nope. Instead he decides to risk the world's future and fight the Cyborgs that were philosophized to kill all of them. And then 20 kills a bunch of people.

-Should have told Gohan of his plans to have him fight Cell as he knew he was the only one who could win, but instead decides to not tell him...for some reason. This is one of the places where the whole "Piccolo is a better father than Goku" comes from. He knew Gohan better than Goku.

-Could have stopped the entire Boo threat by going SSJ3 and one shotting Vegeta, or by going all out and Killing Fat Boo. Instead he says the living should solve the problem, even though it was him and Vegeta who brought Boo back by fighting each other.

Goku is a kind of a Hero but not at all! Goku cares for the Earth, but more important to him is fighting and be stronger!

[Kid Buu]

Eh, the thing is that he he had a close match-up and still lost the fight to Roshi. In the 22nd Budokai, he lost because of some external factor that had nothing to do with the fight, not to mention Tenshinhan went and credited Goku as the real victor anyway.

[dbzfan7]

He constantly puts his enjoyment of fights over everything else.

-Letting Vegeta go almost doomed earth as he would have returned before Goku healed. If Freeza didn't know about the Dragon Balls, earth would have been screwed.

-He could have killed Freeza instantly as an SSJ and saved Planet Namek...but nope he drags it out for no reason. He then let's Freeza go and the first thing he does is head to earth after being repaired. If Goku did not luckily learn Shunkan Ido, or Trunks didn't show up, then all his friends would have died before he got back.

-He could have stopped the Cyborg threat before it started by finding Dr. Gero and killing him. But nope. Instead he decides to risk the world's future and fight the Cyborgs that were philosophized to kill all of them. And then 20 kills a bunch of people.

-Should have told Gohan of his plans to have him fight Cell as he knew he was the only one who could win, but instead decides to not tell him...for some reason. This is one of the places where the whole "Piccolo is a better father than Goku" comes from. He knew Gohan better than Goku.

-Could have stopped the entire Boo threat by going SSJ3 and one shotting Vegeta, or by going all out and Killing Fat Boo. Instead he says the living should solve the problem, even though it was him and Vegeta who brought Boo back by fighting each other.

Goku is a kind of a Hero but not at all! Goku cares for the Earth, but more important to him is fighting and be stronger!

Exactly. Goku is kind of a hero. By the hero standard, he is terrible at it. But that's just it. Goku doesn't want to be a hero. He just wants to fight strong people. And that's why I love Goku. He is the kind of guy that you just can't hate. He makes you want to smile when he is around. A lot of Goku's friends know this as no matter how much Goku pisses them off at times, he's still a lovable fool.

[ABED]

Goku of course..but that is to be expected. People pretty much covered everything I could say. It's also funny when Goku in all actuality is one of the worst so called heroes I have ever seen. But he is still a lovable fool.

The worst so called heroe I have ever seen.Okey thats weird Goku is one of the most peacfull heroes why is he worst nd a fool explain.

He constantly puts his enjoyment of fights over everything else.

-Letting Vegeta go almost doomed earth as he would have returned before Goku healed. If Freeza didn't know about the Dragon Balls, earth would have been screwed.

-He could have killed Freeza instantly as an SSJ and saved Planet Namek...but nope he drags it out for no reason. He then let's Freeza go and the first thing he does is head to earth after being repaired. If Goku did not luckily learn Shunkan Ido, or Trunks didn't show up, then all his friends would have died before he got back.

-He could have stopped the Cyborg threat before it started by finding Dr. Gero and killing him. But nope. Instead he decides to risk the world's future and fight the Cyborgs that were philosophized to kill all of them. And then 20 kills a bunch of people.

Exactly. Goku is kind of a hero. By the hero standard, he is terrible at it. But that's just it. Goku doesn't want to be a hero. He just wants to fight strong people. And that's why I love Goku. He is the kind of guy that you just can't hate. His makes you want to smile when he is around.
This, a million times over. He's not a perfect hero, but he's still a great one. He fights for what he believes in, he busts his ass to better himself, and he has a lust for life.

-Should have told Gohan of his plans to have him fight Cell as he knew he was the only one who could win, but instead decides to not tell him...for some reason. This is one of the places where the whole "Piccolo is a better father than Goku" comes from. He knew Gohan better than Goku.

-Could have stopped the entire Boo threat by going SSJ3 and one shotting Vegeta, or by going all out and Killing Fat Boo. Instead he says the living should solve the problem, even though it was him and Vegeta who brought Boo back by fighting each other.

I bet RandomGuy could come up with even more.

Almost every character drags fights out, that's not exclusive to Goku, and Freeza didn't survive because Goku dragged out the fight, he survived (illogically) b/c Goku showed him mercy, very Judeo-Christian of him.

Uh, only Bulma offered a dissenting opinion about the cyborgs.

I'm with you about telling Gohan, but that's more of a lame case of Toriyama trying to inject drama.

Yeah, he could've stopped Buu by one shotting Vegeta, had Toriyama thought of SS3 by that point.

Exactly. Goku is kind of a hero. By the hero standard, he is terrible at it. But that's just it. Goku doesn't want to be a hero. He just wants to fight strong people. And that's why I love Goku. He is the kind of guy that you just can't hate. His makes you want to smile when he is around.

I agree wholeheardely with this. Goku's not a perfect hero, but he has a lot of admirable qualities - he will fight to the end for his values, he works his ass off, he loves life, and lives it to the fullest.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Almost every character drags fights out, that's not exclusive to Goku, and Freeza didn't survive because Goku dragged out the fight, he survived (illogically) b/c Goku showed him mercy.

Goku could have finished off Freeza before he powered up, but he chose not to. He then showed him mercy. He also showed mercy to evil guys like Vegeta, Nappa, and the Ginyu Tokusentai, which is the worst thing he could do.

Uh, only Bulma offered a dissenting opinion about the cyborgs.

And? Goku didn't want to do what Bulma wanted.

Yeah, he could've stopped Buu by one shotting Vegeta, had Toriyama thought of SS3 by that point.

How do you know that Toriyama hadn't thought of SS3 at that point?

[ABED]

Yeah, he could've stopped Buu by one shotting Vegeta, had Toriyama thought of SS3 by that point.

How do you know that Toriyama hadn't thought of SS3 at that point?

He's known for not thinking ahead. I don't know but if he did think of SS3 by that point, then his actions make no sense.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He's known for not thinking ahead. I don't know but if he did think of SS3 by that point, then his actions make no sense.

Why? If Goku had used Super Saiyan 3, then he wouldn't enjoy an awesome fight, and his time on Earth would run out. Given Goku's character, it makes perfect sense for not using Super Saiyan 3.

[Kid Buu]

Another thing is I'd have Tenshinhan's character arc last longer. He'd still turn on his master, but only because he wants to beat Goku without cheating. I'd keep him as a wannabe assassin until Chaotzu dies in the Piccolo arc, where he'd realize killing his wrong. Finally have him admit that Goku is better than him when he loses at the 23rd Budokai.

[MDSTSSJ]

No, I am not kidding. Goku, Vegeta, and Vegetto were absolutely toxic and nearly ruined the Majin Buu arc.

You'd be happier if SSJ3 Gotenks would have beat Super Buu to finish the Majin Boo arc earlier?

The thing goes:

SSJ Goku destroyed Freeza. SSJ2 Gohan destroyed Cell. SSJ3 Gotenks destroyed Super Boo.

[Kid Buu]

I wouldn't mind Gotenks taking him out, Gotenks battle was the only one interesting as it wasn't completely one-sided.

[dbzfan7]

Well no need to argue as DBZG said the points for me. Thank You.

But I kinda do agree with F.Trunks getting a lot more than probably needed.

[ABED]

He's known for not thinking ahead. I don't know but if he did think of SS3 by that point, then his actions make no sense.

Why? If Goku had used Super Saiyan 3, then he wouldn't enjoy an awesome fight, and his time on Earth would run out. Given Goku's character, it makes perfect sense for not using Super Saiyan 3.

It's a lie. I don't think that's in Goku's character to lie to himself like that. He might stretch things out a little, but I don't think he's ever flat out lied to himself and an opponent like that. Vegeta didn't stand a chance, so why do that, especially when he knows what's on the line and that he won't be around to fix it. Goku might take crazy risks, but he doesn't do it unless he can take care of it later. Case in point, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Freeza.

Goku didn't want to do what Bulma wanted.
No one put up a fight. It's not like he was the only one who wanted to fight them. It wasn't a unilateral decision.

Goku wasn't fighting Freeza and dragging it out just to enjoy the fight. He wanted to break Freeza mentally and physically.

I agree that Goku has a bad habit of letting enemies live, but unfortunately, even the best superheroes do the same.

[RandomGuy96]

He's known for not thinking ahead. I don't know but if he did think of SS3 by that point, then his actions make no sense.

Why? If Goku had used Super Saiyan 3, then he wouldn't enjoy an awesome fight, and his time on Earth would run out. Given Goku's character, it makes perfect sense for not using Super Saiyan 3.

It's a lie. I don't think that's in Goku's character to lie to himself like that. He might stretch things out a little, but I don't think he's ever flat out lied to himself and an opponent like that. Vegeta didn't stand a chance, so why do that, especially when he knows what's on the line and that he won't be around to fix it. Goku might take crazy risks, but he doesn't do it unless he can take care of it later. Case in point, Piccolo, Vegeta, and Freeza.

He definitely couldn't take care of those three; he just barley beat Piccolo, he lost horribly to Vegeta (it was just pure luck that they beat him), and he had no way of stopping Freeza from nuking his planet from orbit.

[Kid Buu]

Freeza should have died on Namek. It makes no sense that after beating defeated, Freeza still survives angry blast from Goku AND a planet explosion.

[ABED]

He definitely couldn't take care of those three; he just barley beat Piccolo, he lost horribly to Vegeta (it was just pure luck that they beat him), and he had no way of stopping Freeza from nuking his planet from orbit.

Kuririn was about to kill Vegeta, Goku could've left Piccolo to die, and he could've killed Freeza instead of giving him his power.

Freeza should have died on Namek. It makes no sense that after beating defeated, Freeza still survives angry blast from Goku AND a planet explosion.

My thoughts exactly.

I think Trunks should've gotten more of the spotlight than Gohan. It definitely would've felt more dramatically satisfying to me if he had been the one to take care of Cell. He's at his most badass when he's introduced and in his last appearance.

[RandomGuy96]

He definitely couldn't take care of those three; he just barley beat Piccolo, he lost horribly to Vegeta (it was just pure luck that they beat him), and he had no way of stopping Freeza from nuking his planet from orbit.

Kuririn was about to kill Vegeta, Goku could've left Piccolo to die, and he could've killed Freeza instead of giving him his power.

Freeza should have died on Namek. It makes no sense that after beating defeated, Freeza still survives angry blast from Goku AND a planet explosion.

My thoughts exactly.

I think Trunks should've gotten more of the spotlight than Gohan. It definitely would've felt more dramatically satisfying to me if he had been the one to take care of Cell. He's at his most badass when he's introduced and in his last appearance.

Just because he COULD have killed them at one point doesn't mean he can repeat those results. I seriously don't get what you're trying to say; he can still very easily lose to Piccolo, he will certainly lose to Vegeta, and there's nothing he can do to stop Freeza from destroying his planet from space.

[ABED]

Goku was given a senzu, Piccolo was damn near at death's door. All Goku had to do was either let him die, or he could've finished him off quick. However, given what we know about Saiyans, Goku got a boost after that hellacious fight against Piccolo.

he will certainly lose to Vegeta, and there's nothing he can do to stop Freeza from destroying his planet from space.

I don't get what you are getting at. When would he lose to Vegeta?

Nevermind, I get what you mean, my bad. He most certainly could've repeated the same results. I can't think of a time when he lost a rematch. He could've defeated Piccolo again. In fact, the reason he let Piccolo live was so he could have someone to push him. The gravity training was so he could defeat Vegeta, amongst others. After Super Saiyan, he could defeat Freeza anytime. Yes, he didn't think about Freeza blowing up Earth from space but sans that he could still defeat him in a fight. Maybe he figured Freeza wouldn't just blow up the earth, he would want to make people suffer. Deadly bet, but this is Dragon Ball, a universe where mass murderers become good guys.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't get what you are getting at. When would he lose to Vegeta?

Nevermind, I get what you mean, my bad. He most certainly could've repeated the same results. I can't think of a time when he lost a rematch. He could've defeated Piccolo again. In fact, the reason he let Piccolo live was so he could have someone to push him. The gravity training was so he could defeat Vegeta, amongst others. After Super Saiyan, he could defeat Freeza anytime. Yes, he didn't think about Freeza blowing up Earth from space but sans that he could still defeat him in a fight. Maybe he figured Freeza wouldn't just blow up the earth, he would want to make people suffer. Deadly bet, but this is Dragon Ball, a universe where mass murderers become good guys.

He could very easily have LOST as well. Yet he didn't care about the risks. He could have just sealed Piccolo.

He couldn't have foreseen that. He was going strictly off what had just happened: Vegeta kicked his ass, and vowed to come back and destroy the Earth. No one would be able to stop him if he came back a second time.

What does a fight matter if Freeza can just blow up the Earth?

Only one mass murderer became a good guy. Two if you count Buu, but I think the circumstances are enough to label the Buu who did the killing and the Buu who became a good guy as different beings (he literally expelled his evil, which took physical form).