Did Goku Need More Development?

[Kid Buu]

Goku had character development; from Master Roshi to King Kai we saw Goku train through various mentors in the series. By the time of the Cell Arc, Goku becomes the teacher and mentors Gohan.

Too bad the Buu Arc came and shat all over that.

[Flame Dragon]

This is way Goku is such a good character. Since he stays the same always, you know you can always rely on him.
How many times have you been betrayed by someone dear to you, or your friends changed? With Goku this will never happen.

[B]

Too bad the Buu Arc came and shat all over that.

... Y'know, I don't think so. If anything, it established Goku just isn't a good teacher. His idea of passing the torch is just letting the bad guy win and hopefully someone that isn't him will step up to the plate. I think it is very "Goku"-esque.

[Basaku]

Toriyama on Goku's parenting (or lack thereof):

Goku isn’t interested in child-rearing, probably. He’s completely unqualified to be a father. (laughs) He doesn’t even have a job. Goku wants nothing other than to get stronger, and it feels like he doesn’t have any other instincts. So he shows absolutely no interest in things he’s not interested in. I’d bet he wouldn’t have had any interest in marriage, eithe

Toriyama on Vegeta's family life:

Q: Since Saiyans are supposed to have no affection for family or friends, does this actually make Vegeta, who holds his family and wife dear, an even stranger (kinder) Saiyan than Goku?

A: Vegeta, whose pride had been deeply wounded, sought help from Bulma, and little by little, his ruthless personality changed. Nowadays, you certainly might be able to say that On the other hand, Goku might not have a sense of family members like Gohan and Chi-Chi except as one of his companions.

It seems that he really is saying Vegeta is a better father than Goku.

Even Tori thinks Vegeta is a better daddy

[MediaFanGirl93]

Bah, I think neither Goku and Vegeta are good fathers.

[Gokuden]

It doesn't make much sense for Goku not to have any sense of family, he's not a feral child. He was raised by Grandpa Gohan, and teared his eyes out when he saw him at Baba's resort. I think this no family sense is total crap that was later added to the story to explain why we didn't see Toriyama do much family business, or a love story of important depth.

Grandpa Gohan even told Roshi that Goku turned into a loving child.

Vegeta is a good father to his kids, he's just very regal like all royalty. Do you see the royals kiss their children in public, or tell them that they love them?

This no sense of family applied to lower-class saiyans, who lived each day like it was their last. Disposables. Goku has a human mindset, and people from the mountains are special, they're more pure.

By the time we reach the Buu saga, Goku, having been exposed to all vices in civilization, is now a pervert. Probably cheated on ChiChi in the afterlife too, because he thought he was off the hook.

So he went from being an ignorant kid, to a dirty old pervert.

[ABED]

Please don't turn this to a Gohan ooc topic.

That passivity comment had NOTHING to do with him being or not being out of character.

Bah, I think neither Goku and Vegeta are good fathers.

I wasn't arguing that Goku was a great father, but he's certainly better than a guy that doesn't hold his child, and punches him out of frustration. Even if he is sorry, that doesn't excuse it. He didn't blink an eye when Bulma and Trunks were nearly killed by Dr. Gero. He didn't spend time with Trunks in the RoSaT.

And I wouldn't use the royalty example as a justification.

... Y'know, I don't think so. If anything, it established Goku just isn't a good teacher. His idea of passing the torch is just letting the bad guy win and hopefully someone that isn't him will step up to the plate. I think it is very "Goku"-esque.

Since when? When did Goku ever push that responsibility on someone else before the Buu arc?

Here's why I have a hard time believing Toriyama knew about SS3 the entire time - Goku loves a good fight where he can test his limits. Vegeta was not that guy at the time. So why would he fight him knowing he was helping Buu be resurrected? The only answer I can see to that is that at the time Toriyama was writing it, he believed Goku was trying his best against Vegeta, and SS3 was an idea that came afterwards.

[Gokuden]

Also, the no sense of family came later in DBZ where they established Goku was an alien, instead of being a monkey king of earth. So, did the saiyans lower-class thing. I know, I know, just because it came later, doesn't mean it's worthless, but when you get used to cutting corners... And weird Toriyama interviews...

However, at the start of DBZ, you have Raditz clinging to familial values with a brother, and nephew he'd never met, pretty nice for a guy who is supposedly ruthless, and has no family values.

Regardless, I view the whole story, and it doesn't seem like Goku is a bad father. When did he have the chance to spend time with his kids after being killed for 8 years in the span of 12 years? And during those times, he's either fighting bad people, or being ill, or lost for a year on some distant planet, or in the rosat with Gohan for a year.

All in all, Goku had the time to spend 3 years on 12 with his full family (DBZ era), and 9 years with aliens, gods, and demons, and a single year with Gohen in the rosat.

And during those 3 years between the Cell saga, he had to train Gohan with Piccolo to save the world as well.

The only true alone time Goku had was when he made Gohan.


How can you blame this man for not being there, when he is really 'not there'!?

[ABED]

However, at the start of DBZ, you have Raditz clinging to familial values with a brother, and nephew he'd never met, pretty nice for a guy who is supposedly ruthless, and has no family values
Are you kidding with this? I'm honestly asking. That's not familial love as much as it is tribalism.

Gokuden, Goku's there with his family in the five years between DB and DBZ, he's there during the 3 year training, and he's there between Buu's destruction and leaving with Uub.

[Gokuden]

However, at the start of DBZ, you have Raditz clinging to familial values with a brother, and nephew he'd never met, pretty nice for a guy who is supposedly ruthless, and has no family values
Are you kidding with this? I'm honestly asking. That's not familial love as much as it is tribalism.

Gokuden, Goku's there with his family in the five years between DB and DBZ, he's there during the 3 year training, and he's there between Buu's destruction and leaving with Uub.

Yes, Abed, but the five years between, and the making babies doesn't count, even though it was his alone time with them. I should have stated that. as his 'no family identity' was attributed later, I shouldn't have put making babies as a reason, that was pretty bad of me.

You could tell at the start of the series, he was a pretty warm father, and something changed later, like world doom.

Somewhere before he meets Uub, he lives with Goten, Gohan (capsule house beside them?), and Chichi like a true father! And is training his son with a picnic.

He trained with Uub, but we don't know to what extent. I don't imagine it would be like DBGT, where he comes back after a year, or three, suddenly asks for dinner, and ChiChi is mad at him.

If you look at the one-shit Alien manga, you can see Uub lives with the Son Family.

Unfortunately, we don't know what transpired when piccolo and goku were training Gohan for the Androids, I'd imagine a punching bag of sorts, with the occasional barbeque day, but I know there was a pressure to get strong, and detract from the family life.

[ABED]

Yes, Abed, but the five years between, and the making babies doesn't count, even though it was his alone time with them. I should have stated that. as his 'no family identity' was attributed later, I shouldn't have put making babies as a reason, that was pretty bad of me.

You could tell at the start of the series, he was a pretty warm father, and something changed later, like world doom.

Somewhere before he meets Uub, he lives with Goten, Gohan (capsule house beside them?), and Chichi like a true father! And is training his son with a picnic.

He trained with Uub, but we don't know to what extent. I don't imagine it would be like DBGT, where he comes back after a year, or three, suddenly asks for dinner, and ChiChi is mad at him.

If you look at the one-shit Alien manga, you can see Uub lives with the Son Family.

I'm not sure how it doesn't count, and he only had one child, who was 4 when we first meet him.

I don't know if he would've stayed away for that long given that he had no need to. He can teleport.

[superfunk]

Yes, Abed, but the five years between, and the making babies doesn't count, even though it was his alone time with them. I should have stated that. as his 'no family identity' was attributed later, I shouldn't have put making babies as a reason, that was pretty bad of me.

You could tell at the start of the series, he was a pretty warm father, and something changed later, like world doom.

Somewhere before he meets Uub, he lives with Goten, Gohan (capsule house beside them?), and Chichi like a true father! And is training his son with a picnic.

He trained with Uub, but we don't know to what extent. I don't imagine it would be like DBGT, where he comes back after a year, or three, suddenly asks for dinner, and ChiChi is mad at him.

If you look at the one-shit Alien manga, you can see Uub lives with the Son Family.

I'm not sure how it doesn't count, and he only had one child, who was 4 when we first meet him.

I don't know if he would've stayed away for that long given that he had no need to. He can teleport.

according to Toriyama he doesn't care, so why would he do something(teleport and see his family) that doesn't interest him, when there is something that interests him occupying his time.

[ABED]

Toriyama writes the stories, but interpretation is left to the audience, so why am I automatically obligated to go with his interpretation?

And Goku isn't disinterested in them.

[Darknat]

Neko Majin Z shows Goku training uub and he's living with the family, so I don't think he is that bad of a parent, just not a great parent. He also clearly cared a lot about Gohan and trained him. He did make mistakes like when he let Gohan fight against Cell, but no one is perfect and even then after the talk with Piccolo he understood he was wrong and was going to help Gohan.