Could Tenshinhan's Kikoho or Dodonpa be a planet buster?

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Regarder
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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by Regarder » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:03 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote: Otherwise, you're saying that the energy just disappears for no reason.
Where did all the energy go when Chiaotzu detonated? A sphere the size of the moon was not created. Or Vegeta for that matter - the planet didn't blow up. It's hard to believe that someone is suppressing energy that is vaporizing them.

Actually, the suppressing argument is still weird even for regular explosive attacks. They can suppress a beam to stop it exploding, but what happens to the energy once they let it explode? If the suppression is just letting the energy expand to a certain size of sphere, where does it go after that? The problem is not at all solved. The energy doesn't come back to them, so what happens to the ki in the expanding sphere? Does the ki sphere turn into huge numbers of microscopic bits of ki which are all carefully and invisibly sent into space for every attack?

Honestly, even then how is the ki damaging the opponents if it isn't transferring the planet destroying energy to them? The energy still has to be suppressed once it hits the enemy, so that molecules are prevented from vibrating with planet busting energy to stop it being transferred to the air and ground. But then, how is the enemies body being damaged if their molecular bonds aren't being torn apart in some way?

The entire argument is that real physics applies and that in order to damage the strong characters every attack has to have planet destroying planet, and then because of that this energy has to only affect the target. Unfortunately, you still don't solve where the energy goes, because in order to damage the target, there has to be relative motion caused by the shockwaves which would tear tissue. Once you accept this, you are still left wondering how that motion isn't transferred to everything in contact with the target. If you wish it all into space then it doesn't get used on the enemy. If it's used on the enemy, then the vibration of molecules which causes damage transfers energy to the air and ground. Suppression begins to sound a lot more like not using the energy, which defeats the initial point of characters needing planet destroying amounts of energy input to their bodies to damage them.

Suppression doesn't do what you want it to. You say it's needed because of real physics, but real physics stops it from being able to damage the enemies without it being transferred to the planet defeating the point of "suppression" in the first place.

Conservation of energy; shit on by DBZ. Q.E.D.

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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam be a planet buster?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:05 am

hleV wrote:18,000 Vegeta was going to, wasn't he?
Knowing Vegeta, he could have been talking out of his ass for we all know. I think Vegeta would have blown up the Earth's core then escape with his space ship before the Planet blew up. Vegeta is not that stupid to blow up everything completely if he knows that he would die in space without food and water.
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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam be a planet buster?

Post by singsing » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:13 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:
hleV wrote:18,000 Vegeta was going to, wasn't he?
Knowing Vegeta, he could have been talking out of his ass for we all know. I think Vegeta would have blown up the Earth's core then escape with his space ship before the Planet blew up. Vegeta is not that stupid to blow up everything completely if he knows that he would die in space without food and water.
Or maybe it'd be something like dinosaur extinction meteor and just wipe out life on the surface.

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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by dbzfan7 » Tue Nov 25, 2014 4:45 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How would he be wasteful?
They should be logically throwing moon busting blasts like candy. They don't cause....Toriyama doesn't want to draw that much destruction.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:16 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Condensing it into a tiny beam is more efficient.
Why?
No. It doesn't need to hit the core just to destroy the planet.
Well, prove it. From what I recall, all the attacks that threatened to destroy a planet, or destroyed a planet, were targeted at the planet (which leads the way to the core).
Pure Buu's blast having that much energy is what shows that it can create a big explosion.
Which proves that Boo has enough power to create a ki blast with enough power & range to destroy the planet. It doesn't prove that someone like Freeza could do the same with normal ki blast.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by The Monkey King » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:12 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Condensing it into a tiny beam is more efficient.
Why?
No. It doesn't need to hit the core just to destroy the planet.
Well, prove it. From what I recall, all the attacks that threatened to destroy a planet, or destroyed a planet, were targeted at the planet (which leads the way to the core).
Pure Buu's blast having that much energy is what shows that it can create a big explosion.
Which proves that Boo has enough power to create a ki blast with enough power & range to destroy the planet. It doesn't prove that someone like Freeza could do the same with normal ki blast.
Cell's Kamehameha showed no signs of going anywhere near the Earth's core yet Cell and Goku were certain that it would destroy the Earth:
This is also the case when Cell was going to self destruct:
singsing wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:
hleV wrote:18,000 Vegeta was going to, wasn't he?
Knowing Vegeta, he could have been talking out of his ass for we all know. I think Vegeta would have blown up the Earth's core then escape with his space ship before the Planet blew up. Vegeta is not that stupid to blow up everything completely if he knows that he would die in space without food and water.
Or maybe it'd be something like dinosaur extinction meteor and just wipe out life on the surface.
Well the Daizenshuu outright states that saiyan saga Vegeta had enough power to destroy the Earth:
Daizenshuu wrote:Vegeta displays gigantic power capable of destroying the Earth.
http://web.archive.org/web/201110110425 ... attle#link

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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:07 am

Vegeta would need to destroy it at full force then destroy it casually. Freeza can destroy a Planet casually since it mention that he destroy it without transforming. Vegeta was still likely not going to destroy the Planet completely since he's not that stupid.
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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by Tsufuru » Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:30 pm

vegeta was just mad at that point thats why he didnt thought about what would happen if he did blow it up.

he easiely could just create the fake moon instead but he couldnt handle the fact that goku handled him.
also they aim on the planet so the opponent wont simply dodge vegeta even said that actualy and as seen by the post of monkey king cell didnt aimed at earth cuz he didnt realy cared if golu would just dodge it.

that core busting thing doesnt even make sense since frieza holding back to much core busted namek and namek os bigger than earth if we count that 1 hour flight by krillin if not that fuck every trval feat in dbz.

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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:50 pm

Freeza most likely hold back so he can escape on time. It's possible that he didn't know that King Cold would be showing up on Namek, so he didn't want to have himself floating in Space if no one is going to show up.
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Re: Could Tenshinhan's Tribeam or Dodon Ray be a planet bust

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:00 am

The Monkey King wrote:Cell's Kamehameha showed no signs of going anywhere near the Earth's core yet Cell and Goku were certain that it would destroy the Earth:
This is also the case when Cell was going to self destruct:
SPC Cell & SS2 Gohan were much stronger than that Cell, and fired much stronger Kamehamehas from the same point, yet Earth wasn't destroyed. Which means that Goku was scared that the Kamehameha may hit the Earth from that point.

His self-destruction is a different thing. That would definitely be a huge explosion.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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