So do some at Funi have regrets with how DBZ was handled?

[ABED]

Even the old 1999-2003 FUNi in-house dub wasn't that drastically changed overall in terms of script and visuals.

Visually, no, scriptwise, yes.

An argument could easily be made that Dragon Ball Z is better off with these sort of additions. There are unnecessary changes, then there are ones that are justifiable.

Which changes do you find justifiable? What's the argument that DBZ is better off with additions like "mondo cool" or "Krillin's in da' house!"?

[Kakacarrottop]

Even the old 1999-2003 FUNi in-house dub wasn't that drastically changed overall in terms of script and visuals.

Visually, no, scriptwise, yes.

An argument could easily be made that Dragon Ball Z is better off with these sort of additions. There are unnecessary changes, then there are ones that are justifiable.

Which changes do you find justifiable? What's the argument that DBZ is better off with additions like "mondo cool" or "Krillin's in da' house!"?

I don't see how harmless, fun little insignificant American pop culture references like that hurt the show. The original anime has Japanese pop culture references too, do you hear American dub fans complaining about those? not really. Lines like "that area may have been evacuated" and "you just wait until it [my human arm] grows back!" hurt the show.

[ABED]

Pop culture reference that were dated even then. I don't recall that many JPN pop culture references, and it's not even that, it's that the American dialog was garbage. "Round and round the monkey goes, when stops, off with his nose!" or "Some times you gotta know when to go, go, go!" or the plethora of other lines. It's already a funny series, you don't need to add terribly written comedy that's not in character. I heard dub fans complain about those lines plenty of times. No one's claiming the lines you mentioned didn't hurt the show, simply that all the crappy lines made for a bad experience.

[LordCrumb]

All of these arguments are correct, but in the end, who was complaining when they were a kid watching the show, and didn't even know it was originally in Japanese?

I for one, didn't know the difference between Anime and US Cartoons when I was a young fella. It's all easy to grow up and complain later, but it's not really hurting anyone in the end.

The main thing now is, you actually have a choice which version to watch.

[Kakacarrottop]

Pop culture reference that were dated even then. I don't recall that many JPN pop culture references, and it's not even that, it's that the American dialog was garbage. "Round and round the monkey goes, when stops, off with his nose!" or "Some times you gotta know when to go, go, go!" or the plethora of other lines. It's already a funny series, you don't need to add terribly written comedy that's not in character. I heard dub fans complain about those lines plenty of times. No one's claiming the lines you mentioned didn't hurt the show, simply that all the crappy lines made for a bad experience.

Well that statement is not subjective at all I'm sure kids enjoyed them, and that's who FUNi were aiming their original dub at for the most part. Not the JPN obsessive then-minority. Many of those kids who are grown ups now appreciate the dialogue for it's nostalgic value, and some even for it's ironic "so bad it's good" comedic value. And also let's not try and act like the original JPN version wasn't aimed at Japanese adolescents, it's just stuff aimed at children from that country usually happens to be more intelligently written due to cultural differences.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Newsflash: The quality of the changed lines is just as subjective. Dont pat yourself in the back.

[ABED]

I'm sure kids enjoyed them, and that's who FUNi were aiming their original dub at for the most part.

I was a kid back then. I was 11 when the show first started and I didn't care for those lines.

it's just stuff aimed at children from that country usually happens to be more intelligently written due to cultural differences.

My gripe isn't whom it's aimed at, it's the quality of the lines and not being funny. There is tons of humor in DBZ, none needed to be added, especially not any that clashed with the aesthetic of the show.

[Kakacarrottop]

Dont pat yourself in the back.

Likewise. At least i'm actually contributing to this thread, all this post is doing is handing out blatant negative criticism, which seems to be a recurring theme in all your ranting posts.

Newsflash: The quality of the changed lines is just as subjective

Yes and 'quality' in fictional cartoons is even more subjective.

[ABED]

I'm not sure how one finds something quantifiably more subjective.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Negative critism isnt a crime or disallowed by the forum.You yourself criticize my post, why cant I?

Also, you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You say the dub wasnt unfaithful like ABED makes it out to be but then turn around and admit made extensive changes but those are justified because Funi needed to appeal to kids. No matter how justified the changes, the dub is extremely unfaithful and you cant change that.

[Kakacarrottop]

Negative critism isnt a crime or disallowed by the forum.You yourself criticize my post, why cant I?

Fair enough.

You say the dub wasnt unfaithful like ABED makes it out to be but then turn around and admit made extensive changes but those are justified because Funi needed to appeal to kids. No matter how justified the changes, the dub is extremely unfaithful and you cant change that.

Care to elaborate on why that is a bad thing exactly? Sure an extremely dedicated, yet relatively small subculture on the internet cares about the dub's faithfulness to the original Japanese product, but most of the casual TV watching/DVD buying majority couldn't care less. People from Japan don't even care for the most part. And what if "extensive changes" result in a more enjoyable experience? My case in point would be the original 1996-1998 Saban/Ocean backed FUNi dub (not the in-house one) which imo had a few scenes which were objectively better or more enjoyable than the original to me and many others (mainly tense dialogue scenes or fighting scenes). Same can sort of be said for the in-house dub, although that is mainly down to blind nostalgia.

[ABED]

but most of the casual TV watching/DVD buying majority couldn't care less.

So because they don't know, then the dub writers should make wholesale changes? I could just as easily argue that they couldn't care less so there's no reason to make any changes. And I don't recall mentioning how faithful the dub was as much as the dub just being bad. Bad lines and acting can in fact discourage people from watching a show.

And what if "extensive changes" result in a more enjoyable experience? My case in point would be the original 1996-1998 Saban/Ocean backed FUNi dub (not the in-house one) which imo had a few scenes which were objectively better or more enjoyable than the original to me and many others (mainly tense dialogue scenes or fighting scenes).

But the writers couldn't possibly know what would make for a "more enjoyable experience" a priori. Lastly, what scenes were objectively better?

[Kakacarrottop]

but most of the casual TV watching/DVD buying majority couldn't care less.

So because they don't know, then the dub writers should make wholesale changes? I could just as easily argue that they couldn't care less so there's no reason to make any changes. And I don't recall mentioning how faithful the dub was as much as the dub just being bad. Bad lines and acting can in fact discourage people from watching a show.

And what if "extensive changes" result in a more enjoyable experience? My case in point would be the original 1996-1998 Saban/Ocean backed FUNi dub (not the in-house one) which imo had a few scenes which were objectively better or more enjoyable than the original to me and many others (mainly tense dialogue scenes or fighting scenes).

But the writers couldn't possibly know what would make for a "more enjoyable experience" a priori. Lastly, what scenes were objectively better?

Scenes like these are more enjoyable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF4i4xOGkZg (Chiaotzu killing himself)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3K8kn--v-M (Zarbon fighting Vegeta)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiGPQsRodUc (Goku and Vegeta's beam struggle)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAkitmLBLY (Goku fighting Tullece)

If you actually watch these then you'll see the voice acting is just as competent as the original voice acting. IMO the chilling and creative music is much, much better and more fitting than amateur sounding silence/campy orchestral pop. Sure the dialogue isn't anything to write home about, but like i said no one other than people like us care, the majority are more interested in the visuals.

[VegettoEX]

amateur sounding silence

Can you explain what this even means...?

This just comes off as, "I don't have the words to properly describe my dislike, so I'll just throw in pejoratives until it makes me sound dismissive enough."

[Kakacarrottop]

amateur sounding silence

Can you explain what this even means...?

Well when you watch a b-grade movie you usually hear silence and no background music since the people behind them can't afford stuff like that. I'm not saying this is the case with the JPN version (which obviously had a handsome budget), but it feels like that is the case.

[UltimateHammerBro]

IMO the chilling and creative music is much, much better and more fitting than amateur sounding silence/campy orchestral pop.

Excuse me?

I can almost forgive the "amateur sounding silence" part. I guess some people don't anything which isn't constant music (if you find silence as amateurish, then every film and TV series would feel amateurish to you at some degree). But are you calling the Kikuchi score "campy orchestral pop"?

[Kakacarrottop]

IMO the chilling and creative music is much, much better and more fitting than amateur sounding silence/campy orchestral pop.

Excuse me?

I can almost forgive the "amateur sounding silence" part. I guess some people don't anything which isn't constant music (if you find silence as amateurish, then every film and TV series would feel amateurish to you at some degree). But are you calling the Kikuchi score "campy orchestral pop"?

Okay perhaps i was over-exaggerating a little bit, but still the Kikuchi score is literally something that could be classified under the "orchestral pop" musical subgenre, in contrast to the Saban score which cannot be put under any conventional genre. It's not bad music, i'm not saying that at all, it's just i feel it's terribly misplaced in a violent show like Dragon Ball Z.

[UltimateHammerBro]

I think this is a result of how differently DBZ is seen in different parts of the world. I've always viewed DBZ as an action show, but with a very strong element of adventure and (depending on the saga) comedy, whereas the marketing of the series in some regions tends to portray it as a "non-stop hardcore violence". If you have that view of the show, it's normal that you feel the score is unfitting.

[Kakacarrottop]

I think this is a result of how differently DBZ is seen in different parts of the world. I've always viewed DBZ as an action show, but with a very strong element of adventure and (depending on the saga) comedy, whereas the marketing of the series in some regions tends to portray it as a "non-stop hardcore violence". If you have that view of the show, it's normal that you feel the score is unfitting.

But people literally get brutally bashed and murdered in DBZ every couple of episodes. Planets get destroyed, genocides occur. Yes there are slight 'adventure' elements but trust me, stuff like Adventure Time and Dora the Explorer are 'adventure comedies' or whatever, not Dragon Ball Z. Correcting something originally intended to be a certain way (but still inherently wrong) doesn't make the people who correct it inherently wrong.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Someone hasnt seen Adventure Time... (There's genocide and dark stuff there too). Although I do agree that DBZ isnt an "Adventure Comedy". And even the Saban/Faulconer has comedic themes here and there.

But more importantly, DBZ is supposed to be a Kung Fu Wuxia adventure and all the modern rock and roll clashes with that. And about the fact that the majority doesnt care about the scores and accuracy and so on. You do realize that people love the dub scores because they grew up with them and no other reason? I know, you are going to say that the original score isnt everyone's cup of tea but the only reason the dub scores are popular is because people grew up with them. And I dont think DBZ needed Funimation's changes to succeed. DBZ may be popular in USA but it is RELIGION in Latin America, Europe and other places that didnt alter the show as substantially as Funimation did.