Is Dragon Ball becoming too soft?

[Rocketman]

I honestly don't understand how people think the Buu arc was lighter than the rest of Z.

[Lord Beerus]

Really, if there was ever a time where Dragon Ball went a bit farther with the violence, it was when Freeza came onto the picture, after that it got progressively tamer and tamer.

Huh? Dragon Ball never really got tamer when it came to moments of violent, especially in the manga, where the gore was 100% uncensored and at times so gruesome it didn't get animated.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I REALLY hate to do the whole "LOOK AT HOW GRIMDARK THIS ALL IS" but One Piece is hardly "Light Fare" it CAN have extremely goofy and lighthearted moments it can get pretty grim and bloody(Stuff that doesnt really make it to the transition to anime). Oda sure is definitely more touchy feely with friendship and so on.

In Fact, Oda is more into hardcore action and pseudo seriousness than Toriyama is.There was even a guy here at Kanzenshuu who said he was ashamed to like BoG when his friends were into the more serious One Piece Film Z. I say pseudo seriousness because I actually dont think SERIOUS BUSINESS is as great as everyone says it is. The guy shouldnt feel like BoG is less for being less serious.

I'm not saying this to say ONE PIECE IS BETTER YOU GAIZ. But its not as bad as everyone says it is.

[Bullza]

One Piece isn't without it's violent scenes but it's mostly been too lighthearted for it's own good and let the series down more than anything.

Like the Alasbasta arc there was that whole plan to destroy the city and it was all intense when they were trying to find the bomb but then Pell grabs it and flies away, the bomb explodes and yet it's not even able to kill the one carrying it...

Eneru fries Pagaya and mentions killing all the workers to try and make you hate the character but then in the end did anyone die? No Pagaya was knocked into the water and the workers were knocked out, yay happy ending all around!

Oh no those poor Yagara bulls! They gave their lives to give the good guys that push they needed, how sad...oh wait what's that they're actually not dead but just injured? Ok then.

That's basically what One Piece does, "kills" off characters to make the series intense then when the threat is over "lol nah nobody died".

[SSJGFrieza]

DBZ fans have no appreciation for how much of a martial arts comedy Dragon Ball really is.

I think my least favourite thing about DBZ is that if you enjoy Dragon ball for the simplicity and adventure you'll have a distinct divide amongst the Hardcore fights/ki blast/ power level/ super transformation type stuff that DBZ is.

[fadeddreams5]

I honestly don't understand how people think the Buu arc was lighter than the rest of Z.

It's not so much that it has a light tone, but it's hard to take seriously. And yeah, believe it or not, people took the series (DBZ) seriously before the Buu saga. Fat Buu being infinitely stronger than Cell was very hard to take in for many people.

[Big Momma]

That's basically what One Piece does, "kills" off characters to make the series intense then when the threat is over "lol nah nobody died".

That's probably my one problem with One Piece. Save a few exapmles, No one really dies outside of flashbacks.

[Lord Beerus]

That's basically what One Piece does, "kills" off characters to make the series intense then when the threat is over "lol nah nobody died".

That's probably my one problem with One Piece. Save a few exapmles, No one really dies outside of flashbacks.

For what it's worth, when a character does die in One Piece, it changes the plot immensely.

[dougo13]

You guys need to watch the martial arts movies that Shaw Bros. Studios put out from the 1960's to 1980s. This is the same stuff Toriyama watched (as well as half of Asia). They never shied away from the bloodletting including cutting people to bits with edged weaponry (House of Traps), Skinning Alive (Human Lanterns), torture (5 Deadly Venoms), decapitations, ripping or cutting off limbs including those of children (too many to mention), castration (including kids) to turn people into eunuchs, etc. The Japanese did ditto in all those chambara films and TV series like Zato Ichi or Kozure Ohkami (Lone Wolf & Cub). All great stuff but very bloody at times...

[Big Momma]

That's basically what One Piece does, "kills" off characters to make the series intense then when the threat is over "lol nah nobody died".

That's probably my one problem with One Piece. Save a few exapmles, No one really dies outside of flashbacks.

For what it's worth, when a character does die in One Piece, it changes the plot immensely.

Very true. The deaths that do happen certainly aren't wasted or insignificant.



As for Dragon Ball being too soft? Nah. It will never be as soft as it was in the early days. Even BoG didn't reach that level....of course, that doesn't mean I would mind going back to the tone of the early days.

[tx3]

Actually, he fought in God, then dropped to base since his time ran out, and then went back to SSJ. Don't see a problem there.

And...I don't really get your other points. What, it's not realistic that they can breathe and fight in space? Because, you know, Goku went to the moon that one time in DB and he was breathing just fine. And they went underground because that's just where the fight took them, that happened all the time in DBZ.

Plus I thought the clouds were cool.

Well i didnt really like the fight that much ...but maybe i am bother with details, let me explain since when a body can get used to a power level? this makes the whole SSJ thing useless since why is not normal goku getting used to SSJ powerlevel? why is God form different?...he totally can not breath in space, remember after he killed frieza he looked for a spaceship..dont take DB als canon source it's not that serious to begin with .
the Coulds thing ...i dont know it happend over and over and over again ..i just thought it was repetitive. And for the fighting underground its just so random ...so forced idk as i said maybe i bother to much with details.

What i call a good fight ...Son Goku vs Vegeta (first Fight)
Goku vs Frieza. rough ..hard ...violent ..fast

[Captain Space]

Actually, he fought in God, then dropped to base since his time ran out, and then went back to SSJ. Don't see a problem there.

And...I don't really get your other points. What, it's not realistic that they can breathe and fight in space? Because, you know, Goku went to the moon that one time in DB and he was breathing just fine. And they went underground because that's just where the fight took them, that happened all the time in DBZ.

Plus I thought the clouds were cool.

Well i didnt really like the fight that much ...but maybe i am bother with details, let me explain since when a body can get used to a power level? this makes the whole SSJ thing useless since why is not normal goku getting used to SSJ powerlevel? why is God form different?...he totally can not breath in space, remember after he killed Freeza he looked for a spaceship..dont take DB als canon source it's not that serious to begin with .
the Coulds thing ...i dont know it happend over and over and over again ..i just thought it was repetitive. And for the fighting underground its just so random ...so forced idk as i said maybe i bother to much with details.

What i call a good fight ...Son Goku vs Vegeta (first Fight)
Goku vs Freeza. rough ..hard ...violent ..fast

Well, it's clearly established that god form and god ki are different to anything in the series beforehand. And the difference here was that it wasn't his power, but he had to have help from his friends, which is what was bugging him for a lot of the movie--there was never a need to 'absorb' SSJ, it was already his power alone.

Ehm...what? Don't take the canon as canon? In the manga there's no DB/DBZ divide. It's all one story. It happened.

You guys need to watch the martial arts movies that Shaw Bros. Studios put out from the 1960's to 1980s. This is the same stuff Toriyama watched (as well as half of Asia). They never shied away from the bloodletting including cutting people to bits with edged weaponry (House of Traps), Skinning Alive (Human Lanterns), torture (5 Deadly Venoms), decapitations, ripping or cutting off limbs including those of children (too many to mention), castration (including kids) to turn people into eunuchs, etc. The Japanese did ditto in all those chambara films and TV series like Zato Ichi or Kozure Ohkami (Lone Wolf & Cub). All great stuff but very bloody at times...

Honestly that just makes me not want to watch those movies...

[tx3]

Actually, he fought in God, then dropped to base since his time ran out, and then went back to SSJ. Don't see a problem there.

And...I don't really get your other points. What, it's not realistic that they can breathe and fight in space? Because, you know, Goku went to the moon that one time in DB and he was breathing just fine. And they went underground because that's just where the fight took them, that happened all the time in DBZ.

Plus I thought the clouds were cool.

Well i didnt really like the fight that much ...but maybe i am bother with details, let me explain since when a body can get used to a power level? this makes the whole SSJ thing useless since why is not normal goku getting used to SSJ powerlevel? why is God form different?...he totally can not breath in space, remember after he killed Freeza he looked for a spaceship..dont take DB als canon source it's not that serious to begin with .
the Coulds thing ...i dont know it happend over and over and over again ..i just thought it was repetitive. And for the fighting underground its just so random ...so forced idk as i said maybe i bother to much with details.

What i call a good fight ...Son Goku vs Vegeta (first Fight)
Goku vs Freeza. rough ..hard ...violent ..fast

Well, it's clearly established that god form and god ki are different to anything in the series beforehand. And the difference here was that it wasn't his power, but he had to have help from his friends, which is what was bugging him for a lot of the movie--there was never a need to 'absorb' SSJ, it was already his power alone.

Ehm...what? Don't take the canon as canon? In the manga there's no DB/DBZ divide. It's all one story. It happened.

You guys need to watch the martial arts movies that Shaw Bros. Studios put out from the 1960's to 1980s. This is the same stuff Toriyama watched (as well as half of Asia). They never shied away from the bloodletting including cutting people to bits with edged weaponry (House of Traps), Skinning Alive (Human Lanterns), torture (5 Deadly Venoms), decapitations, ripping or cutting off limbs including those of children (too many to mention), castration (including kids) to turn people into eunuchs, etc. The Japanese did ditto in all those chambara films and TV series like Zato Ichi or Kozure Ohkami (Lone Wolf & Cub). All great stuff but very bloody at times...

Honestly that just makes me not want to watch those movies...

well if thats the point, a fusion is also an external energy, which cant be established alone.
u could argue that a different kind of KI but thats something that u have to make up for yourself.

they say it in the Manga Goku can not life in space
i cant show you exactly where if you like me to

[Captain Space]

well if thats the point, a fusion is also an external energy, which cant be established alone.
u could argue that a different kind of KI but thats something that u have to make up for yourself.

they say it in the Manga Goku can not life in space
i cant show you exactly where if you like me to

We weren't talking about fusion, but the only canon time Goku fused was when it was another of those "this is desperate, we have to throw our pride away for now" situations. He said as much to Vegeta.

Right, fair enough, blanked on Frieza specifically bringing up that Goku couldn't survive in space much more recently, sorry. Anyway, I guess that it's a god thing then, especially since earlier in the movie Bills/Birus and Whis have no problem flying vast distances around space.

[funrush]

That's basically what One Piece does, "kills" off characters to make the series intense then when the threat is over "lol nah nobody died".

That's probably my one problem with One Piece. Save a few exapmles, No one really dies outside of flashbacks.

For what it's worth, when a character does die in One Piece, it changes the plot immensely.

True. In One Piece dying actually matters.

On the topic of whether or not the series is getting soft, DB was a comedy adventure series to begin with, and Toriyama is more accustomed to comedy writing. If anything, the brutal violence and gore of Z was out of his comfort zone, so him getting more relaxed makes sense.

[EXBadguy]

DAMN STRAIGHT it has. I still look at DB in a different way and still sticking to my guns and think that Dragon Ball was never this stupid. I mean, how can anyone not notice the difference of tone between the earlier DB parts to the later DB ones(King Piccolo to Cell). Blasting holes in people and punching in them, rippin' arms off, decapitating heads, spitting blood, etc. Now listen, I'm not saying the DB series is some hardcore shit like MK or anything. What I am saying is that Toriyama needs to step up, I think he knows there are fans(like myself) who don't really like it for his gag roots....much(there are some that I like).

I know you can't please everyone, but you have to please a majority, balance it out. I think BoG didn't quite did that. The movie didn't get critically acclaimed and plus the whole fanbase is divided by the whole thing. PEOPLE HERE BETTER NOT DENY THAT CUZ IT IS TRUE!

There was even a guy here at Kanzenshuu who said he was ashamed to like BoG when his friends were into the more serious One Piece Film Z. I say pseudo seriousness because I actually dont think SERIOUS BUSINESS is as great as everyone says it is. The guy shouldnt feel like BoG is less for being less serious.

That would be me! And no, I don't have any friends who like anime at all(heck even I don't like anime as much as I used to). It's just that when I go to some forums, I see a many people constantly comparing One Piece Z to BoG saying that OPZ is eons better than BoG for relevant reasons that made me ashamed of liking BoG.

I think it will depend on the story.

BOG for example had a light hearted villain so there wasn't a reason to go dark but with FNF we're getting on of the most violent villains in the story so the movie is darker this time.

That too. Hopefully that's the case.

[Big Momma]

I know you can't please everyone, but you have to please a majority, balance it out. I think BoG didn't quite did that. The movie didn't get critically acclaimed and plus the whole fanbase is divided by the whole thing. PEOPLE HERE BETTER NOT DENY THAT CUZ IT IS TRUE!

But, according to IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, BoG is pretty well-liked.

[EXBadguy]

But, according to IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, BoG is pretty well-liked.

IMDB's reception of the movie is still kinda mixed, though I'm surprised at the Rotten Tomatoes reception. Fine, I'll take back half of the stuff I said about the reception of BoG.

I don't either, but when your favorite character has hole in the chest and is realistically bleeding, than it really is bad and there is the tension and you have a sense that something serious goes on.
Wars and real life battles doesn't look like Pokémon battles and that is what actually brought me to Dragon Ball, that even with the humour and adventure, the danger is serious and the heroes feel pain and battle hard.
I don't need to see blood streaks everywhere, but even little stream of blood from the mouth indicates that they are fighting serious, this is not stupid game and you feel more for you favorite characters.
I did like King-fu movies as a kid, not because of the violence, but the story, setting, design and when someone was bleeding, like in real life, you knew that something is going on.
I watched also Pokémon as a kid, but it turned me off for being repetitive and harmless dumb fun, when I encountered Dragon ball which took the Kung-fu genre to different level.
It was that they fight for survival in a serious battles, not to get some badge and later get their monsters that can't die healed. Those lighthearted and humorous moments even create a bigger contrast to that.

GIVE THIS GUY A FUCKING MEDAL!

[tx3]

Fighting became the main point with the Piccolo saga and stayed that way till the end ...with some exceptions like when the end of the Cell Saga with Gohan going to school.
Now we see a shift in focus again where fighting is being pushed back or lets say reduced and more "friends and family" plots are .(as i see it) forced in. U cant deny that this "friends and family" aspect always belongs to DB ..but it way more present in the last 3..or so films ..the Mainstream does support the family friendly stuff more ...

[Lord Beerus]

I know you can't please everyone, but you have to please a majority, balance it out. I think BoG didn't quite did that. The movie didn't get critically acclaimed and plus the whole fanbase is divided by the whole thing. PEOPLE HERE BETTER NOT DENY THAT CUZ IT IS TRUE!

But, according to IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, BoG is pretty well-liked.

I don't really know where all this division about BOG is coming from. It made a great amount of money for its limited run in theatres in the US and it proved to be so well liked it got more screenings, sold a shit ton of BD's and has become one of the highest selling titles Funimation has ever had. I think most of the division about the movie comes from Kanzenshuu and Youtube, because it seem as though the mass audience generally like the film.