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Bejiita
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Post by Bejiita » Fri Feb 24, 2006 12:34 pm

Dayspring wrote:
Bejiita wrote:But since they separated in Buu they would have been able to fuse again when they were able to against Kidd buu.
Which would be the exception to the rule, since in every other case it ended up being permanent.
Yea, really.

I just want to ask a question.

Who is actually stronger out of Dabura and Cell?

I always thought Dabura, but I honestly can't see Cell getting beat up by him, although he did put up quite a good fight against Fat Buu. I only remember goku saying how Cell and him were kind of the same strength, yet gohan seems to have trouble with him...is Dabura actually stronger?
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Post by kindertuin » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:01 pm

Yea, really.

I just want to ask a question.

Who is actually stronger out of Dabura and Cell?

I always thought Dabura, but I honestly can't see Cell getting beat up by him, although he did put up quite a good fight against Fat Buu. I only remember goku saying how Cell and him were kind of the same strength, yet gohan seems to have trouble with him...is Dabura actually stronger?
Gohan had to go ssj2 against cell to beat him. In his fight against Dabura, gohan was only ssj, not ssj2.

And Goku said that Dabura is around the same strenght like Cell, who they defeated (He didin't say he was a strong as Dabura).

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Post by Saiya-jin » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:04 pm

This may be a little off topic, but I didn't wanna start a new thread. In Movie 10, did Gohan go SSJ2 against Brolli? I couldn't tell. If he didn't, do you think SSJ2 would have beaten him easily?(Just a question :oops: )

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Post by Bejiita » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:53 pm

kindertuin wrote:
Yea, really.

I just want to ask a question.

Who is actually stronger out of Dabura and Cell?

I always thought Dabura, but I honestly can't see Cell getting beat up by him, although he did put up quite a good fight against Fat Buu. I only remember goku saying how Cell and him were kind of the same strength, yet gohan seems to have trouble with him...is Dabura actually stronger?
Gohan had to go ssj2 against cell to beat him. In his fight against Dabura, gohan was only ssj, not ssj2.

And Goku said that Dabura is around the same strenght like Cell, who they defeated (He didin't say he was a strong as Dabura).
Um, Gohan is SSJ2 against Dabura. Gohan rarely goes SSJ in after Cell Games, he did it against the bank robbers, and also when sparring Goten, but most of the ime he's SSJ2.

Yea he said around the same strength as Dabura.

And yea Gohan is SSJ2 against Brolli too.
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Post by Duo » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:21 pm

Manga-wise, Gohan only displays the aura of a Normal Super Saiyan while fighting Dabra.

Also, the only indication about Dabra's strength is from the following quote...

"There was this guy...7 years ago, named Cell. I guess they're about the same."

One other quote is used to say he was stronger than Cell, but it's really taken out of context. Goku see's that Dabra can use magic and comments "Whoa, he's better than I thought." which is basically a note about Dabra's skill, not his Ki.

Then you get the huge variable of which "Cell" Goku was talking about. Well, I could go over each one and why and all that jazz...but I'll just say that it would make sense for it to be Cell at the level of power he used when he fought Goku (The Cell Son would remember best because he gets to know people, above all else, through battle.)

Now, Xyex or someone is probably going to storm in and say Goku could have only been talking about Super Kanzentai Seru and all of that and how what I said is impossible and that Toriyama-sensei just forgot to give Gohan the traits of an Ssj2.

But, whatever.

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Post by DBZ MAN » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:22 pm

Gohan was SSJ 2 against Dabura but he was only Super Saiyan in movie 10. No electricty around him and his hair did not stand up as much. But he may have gone SSJ 2 when fireing off the Kamehameha
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Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:31 pm

Gohan didn't have electricity against Dabra either, but his hair sure seemed to be SSj2 hair.

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Post by The Mole » Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:37 pm

I can't tell the difference between SSJ and SSJ2 Gohan (adult of course).
Could someone provide some screen shots to help me?
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Post by DBZ MAN » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:22 pm

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Post by Bejiita » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:22 am

Duo wrote:Manga-wise, Gohan only displays the aura of a Normal Super Saiyan while fighting Dabra.

Also, the only indication about Dabra's strength is from the following quote...

"There was this guy...7 years ago, named Cell. I guess they're about the same."

One other quote is used to say he was stronger than Cell, but it's really taken out of context. Goku see's that Dabra can use magic and comments "Whoa, he's better than I thought." which is basically a note about Dabra's skill, not his Ki.

Then you get the huge variable of which "Cell" Goku was talking about. Well, I could go over each one and why and all that jazz...but I'll just say that it would make sense for it to be Cell at the level of power he used when he fought Goku (The Cell Son would remember best because he gets to know people, above all else, through battle.)

Now, Xyex or someone is probably going to storm in and say Goku could have only been talking about Super Kanzentai Seru and all of that and how what I said is impossible and that Toriyama-sensei just forgot to give Gohan the traits of an Ssj2.

But, whatever.
Despite the aura of Gohan when he fights Dabura, he is still SSJ2. Without a doubt. Even in the manga. I have already said I'm not really aura observant, so I wouldn't know, but judging by his hair he is definately SSJ2.

Image
This is Gohan going standard SSJ against those bank robbers at the start of the Saiyaman story.

Image
And this is SSJ2, against Dabura as well.

The main difference is the sharpness, there's more detail on the hair, more strands, and it's more upright.

And Gohan is SSJ2 in the Brolli movie too.

Image
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Post by Saiyan » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:44 am

This sorta helps Bejiita's theory of Gohan being SSj2.

When Vegetto transforms into SSj, his initial transformation image, from the manga..looks like this:

Image

Every other panel afterwards, he has no more lightning.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though Vegetto is in Super Saiyan form, there is the appearance of lightning, as Gohan being Super Saiyan 2 form, with the appearance of no lightning.

Oi, the Buu saga can be so confusing sometimes...

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Post by Xyex » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:17 am

Now, Xyex or someone is probably going to storm in and say Goku could have only been talking about Super Kanzentai Seru and all of that and how what I said is impossible and that Toriyama-sensei just forgot to give Gohan the traits of an Ssj2.
*blink*

Well, it is my thought that Goku was refering to Super Perfect Cell. One, because that was the Cell that'd be burned into his mind, after watching Gohan's power struggle against him. And two, I can't see Gohan losing *that* much power that he couldn't take Perfect Cell while SSJ2.

And that leads me in to the next matter. That Gohan was indeed an SSJ2 against Dabura. The evidence has already been presented to that effect though, so no need to to dwell on that. As for the movie, he was SSJ2 there as well. Logic and hair show that.
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Post by Duo » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:46 am

That statement wasn't meant against you or anything Xyex, I just know where you stand on the issue and I figured you'd frequent the thread...frequently...so I was seeing if I could guess right. Sorry if that came off as a stab at your or anything.

Also, I would like to implore everyone to compare -

- Gohans hair while fighting Dabra.
- Gohans hair after transforming in pissed off-ness about Videl getting beat beyond recognition.
- Gohans hair while clearly Ssj2 in front of Kibito.

This is the Manga I speak of, obviously. Thanks.

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Post by Bejiita » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:52 pm

Duo wrote:That statement wasn't meant against you or anything Xyex, I just know where you stand on the issue and I figured you'd frequent the thread...frequently...so I was seeing if I could guess right. Sorry if that came off as a stab at your or anything.

Also, I would like to implore everyone to compare -

- Gohans hair while fighting Dabra.
- Gohans hair after transforming in pissed off-ness about Videl getting beat beyond recognition.
- Gohans hair while clearly Ssj2 in front of Kibito.

This is the Manga I speak of, obviously. Thanks.
There isn't anymore need for any comparison, manga and anime transformations are exactly the same, Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabura, when becoming angry for Videl, and also when infront of Kibito.
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viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1942]Chapter 1
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Post by Sebastian (SB) » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:14 am

Wasn't Mirai Trunks's hair while turning Super Saiya-jin distinctively sharper when he was fighting Cell in his timeline? So that would make him Super Saiya-jin 2 based on your statements. I believe there was another thread in relation to this a long while back.

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Post by Bejiita » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:08 am

Sebastian (SB) wrote:Wasn't Mirai Trunks's hair while turning Super Saiya-jin distinctively sharper when he was fighting Cell in his timeline? So that would make him Super Saiya-jin 2 based on your statements. I believe there was another thread in relation to this a long while back.
Yea I do, but he wasn't SSJ2, there wasn't any lightning, and also some years passed after he killed both Cyborgs and his hair style was slighty different, which made his SSJ hair look a bit different too.

His hair looked quite similar to the Trunks from GT's one.
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Post by masenko » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:31 am

Sebastian (SB) wrote:Wasn't Mirai Trunks's hair while turning Super Saiya-jin distinctively sharper when he was fighting Cell in his timeline? So that would make him Super Saiya-jin 2 based on your statements. I believe there was another thread in relation to this a long while back.
He was basically around SSJ 1.5 during that fight. He had ascended beyond Super Saiyan (bulked up, loss of speed) but never reached level 2. He lost speed but he was still incredibly stronger than Cell in his 1st form.
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Post by DBZ MAN » Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:12 am

Thats true but I don't know why he could become super saiyan 2 in Budokai 3.
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Post by Bejiita » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:34 pm

DBZ MAN wrote:Thats true but I don't know why he could become super saiyan 2 in Budokai 3.
I have always wondered that as well.

But since the hair looked exactly the same I reckon it was just for fan purposes.

But there is definately something about Trunks' hair when he goes back in time, but I just know it wasn't SSJ2 because of the aura and the lack of lightening.

Just to say, there is a time I remember not seeing lighning around SSJ2, and that was Majin Vegeta against Fat Buu, when he hugs Trunks before knocking him out there is no electricity.

Also, when Goku has just telelported Cell to Kaio's planet, Gohan's hair is still SSJ2 but there is no electricity.
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Post by Chibi Mystic Gohan » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:39 pm

No, he powered down to Full Power Super Saiyan. When Cell comes back, he clearly powers up to SSj2 again.

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