What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri May 01, 2015 12:49 pm

Cetra wrote:- The Pilaf gang messing up another wish and becoming old again. That is pretty sad considering they are only like wannabe evil compared to actual Dragon Ball villains but that's how it is.
Much older.
Its likely this may happen. I was surprised it didn't happen in ROF already.
A world without Dragon Ball is just boring.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by Zephyr » Fri May 01, 2015 1:45 pm

What would I like to see in the new series? I'd certainly like to see the bit of trivia about the Makaioshin finally followed up on. I'd be interested in seeing Gohan's, Krillin's, and Tenshinhan's epilogues from DBO come to fruition. Toriyama being heavily involved in character moments and dialog would be amazing. Most of all I want us to get past the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai.
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:
Zephyr wrote:The original Dragon Ball ended so long ago, pretty much anything and everything that one could possibly come up with in regard to a continuation of the story has likely been made into some sort of fanfiction. It feels to me like anything that gets done nowadays will be called "fanfiction-y" by someone. Which is why it's such a nonsensical, hollow, meaningless label to attempt to slight the new material with. It comes off like "I don't know how to actually articulate why I don't like this new material, so I'm just gonna call it fanfiction".
I completely disagree. Something that would be labelled "fanficky" would only be prejuded by the level of creativity put into something new and not treatment as a personal what-if bias. if something treads over whats been done before just to give a character that never had relevance before, new appropriated relevance isn't what I'd call expanding. Its why FnF got so muc flack for being a rehash premace with no sort of originality whatsoever used within it reduced down to just recolours. The farfetched hypathetical scenarios coupled by overexaggerated power-scallings or asspull endings make it hard for some people to connect new material to prior stories with more levelled out plotlines.
See, that's a completely different definition of "fanficky" that I've seen prior to this. Nobody has a clear, rigorous definition for the label. That makes it come off as a catch all "I don't like this because of x, y, and z". Instead of calling it fanfiction, you could just list your complaints. "Retreading things to give an older character new relevance", "Lacking in originality", "Being farfetched", and "Overexaggerated power-scalings and asspull endings" aren't qualities and concepts unique to fanfiction as a medium. These work as criticisms of the new film, but to treat them as necessary or sufficient conditions for being "fanfiction" is utterly absurd. What makes something fanfiction is that it's made unofficially. Trying to actually quantify the essence of "fanfiction" beyond that, and then using this arbitrary personal quantification as support in an argument, is just plain ridiculous.

I can't reiterate enough how badly it just comes off as "I don't actually understand the issues I have here, so I'm going to insert a vague concept so I don't have to bother articulating my opinion". You do still have to articulate your opinion; and once you do articulate your opinion, the label becomes redundant, in addition to its already meaningless nature. And you've done just that: you listed your complaints with the film, and the label of "fanficky" has become superfluous.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by Akira » Fri May 01, 2015 7:31 pm

The primary thing I want to see is Toriyama's continued vision to take things in unexpected directions, while maintaining the balance of humor and action that has always made Dragonball on the whole an enjoyable fiction. From humble beginnings in the forest alone, to martial arts mastery against the strongest masters, aliens, androids, sorcery, and most recently, battles involving deities and obtaining comparable power. To..whatever he dreams up next!

I always imagined that Goku and Vegeta were roughly equals by the end of Z story. Although years ago I had little to prove as much, the remarks Vegeta made confidently about needing a whole world to contain a potential re-match between them led me to believe that he had finally closed the gap and achieved a power comparable to Goku was always my interpretation of things. We now know they both possess godly-ki and SSGSS, which makes those statements all the more meaningful.

Do I have any pre-conceived expectations of Dragonball Super? In terms of specific plots or scenarios, it is decidedly no, I do not. I want new adventures, and whatever Toriyama dreams up will be something great for sure. My only expectations going in, is that he continue to build on what has been established with the new films, and considering that there will be a new generation of fans starting with this show, enough flashbacks and nods to the original DB-DBZ continuity to maintain consistency.

What do I mean by this? References, such as in the Majin Buu saga where the tournament announcer recognized Goku and Krillin, then upon seeing Piccolo with the group, asked him and Goku not to blow up the whole island, "this time". That was a nice reference back to the 23rd Budokai from way back. Just instances where the situation calls for it, that such references are made, and with Super, a quick flashback, so that newer fans are brought up to speed.

An example of what I believe everyone is seeking by mentioning "relevance":

-Master Roshi having a slightly important role of some sort again. He was relegated to his pervert humor only in the later half of Z. In DB, he basically took it upon himself to educate Goku as best as he could, and to push him to strive to become greater by whatever means necessary. It would be nice to see Goku recognize and mention that it was not merely his saiyan nature that drove him to self-improvement, but that he was brought up in such a manner by Roshi. That serious side where Roshi is fatherly or grandfatherly to others, or super serious (as in his confrontation with Piccolo Daimao), he needs to be shown as both a former world champ, as well as the perv humor he displays. This is his relevance, if you will, to show all facets of his character, as a mentor and why he is called "Master" Roshi.

I see a lot of people mentioning how they want this character, or that character to be "Relevant" again. I think the best ways to achieve this is in a similar fashion to my Roshi example. Explain what makes the character so great, and why the new viewers should care about them. Revival of F may have many of them fighting mere "fodder" characters, but it is a short movie. Super has the opportunity to have Tenshinhan, Krillin, Piccolo, Gohan and the rest have meaningful battles against powerful henchmen that are on par with villains from way back. Let's face it, with Goku and Vegeta in a god tier, it is going to be one of them fighting the big nasties, but there is plenty of room for right hand men to be challenging opponents for the rest of the gang if set up properly.

I just want to see new adventures, and events or scenarios that remind us why the rest of the cast is important too. I think that is somewhat what everyone here would like as well, they just aren't quite sure how to articulate it fully.
"Of" =/= "Have"

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The heck does "should of" even mean anyway? Think about what those two words mean individually, and then try to read them back to back in a sentence and make sense of it. Are you forming a prepositional phrase, is "should" a part of a larger grouping, or are you just typing random words based on how you think you hear them used verbally? Perhaps take a moment to contemplate this, and see if it becomes as mind jarring for you to look at as it does for me..

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Fri May 01, 2015 8:07 pm

Something that feels fresh and new rather than a rehash.

I might watch the pilot episode but preferably wait for FUNimation to release it on Blu-ray which and as such season/set/part 1 would be released in 2016 or so. I don't mind cause 2016 is gonna be a freaking awesome ever.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sat May 02, 2015 12:08 pm

Zephyr wrote:I can't reiterate enough how badly it just comes off as "I don't actually understand the issues I have here, so I'm going to insert a vague concept so I don't have to bother articulating my opinion". You do still have to articulate your opinion; and once you do articulate your opinion, the label becomes redundant, in addition to its already meaningless nature. And you've done just that: you listed your complaints with the film, and the label of "fanficky" has become superfluous.
The definition isnt that complex really, and even if my view of what I deem as "fanficky" line up with how the movie was supported, then it qualifies for my explaination. More so even if it contrasts that much with what is already standardized prior from the series. It's not even the use of tropes that the series itself officially relies on but really whatever material feels the most implausible and inconsistent to the flow of the story's understood writing style. (or uses unrealistic supports to try and insert or justify an unlikely or abstract hypathetical insert). Its why EOB doesnt make any type of sense to canon.

Yes, its my interpretation but thats how most fanfic come off to me. The way the first Broly movie for example is structured like one. Broly being created off of a concept already given to another character, but he is the special case who is stronger and all-around-better than the official incarnation of a concept because he isnt the protahonist. Said inserted character makes all the other official characters look like nothing through exaggerated demonstrations of altered strength that is unexplained beyond it just being there. Said character makes the official characters look like nothing and puts a normally competent character into utter unnatural uselessness. Then that pseudo-god character cant be stopped without some absurd, rehashed method of something farfetched that is required to kill him. Those arent my complaints with the actual movie though, that is just the observable comparison to deconstruction. This same formula is used in stereotypical depictions of AF, and now officially in FnF.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by Hitiro » Sat May 02, 2015 6:03 pm

Zephyr wrote:
Hitiro wrote:This feels like it would be going down the route of some Dragonball AF fan fiction.
The original Dragon Ball ended so long ago, pretty much anything and everything that one could possibly come up with in regard to a continuation of the story has likely been made into some sort of fanfiction. It feels to me like anything that gets done nowadays will be called "fanfiction-y" by someone. Which is why it's such a nonsensical, hollow, meaningless label to attempt to slight the new material with. It comes off like "I don't know how to actually articulate why I don't like this new material, so I'm just gonna call it fanfiction".
Sorry, but the level or creativity with most fanfics borderlines on the terrible. I've yet to see any Dragon Ball AF fanfic do the franchise any justice. It seems like it almost always takes it to ludicrous degrees like creating a SSJ10 or making a Super Namekian 3. Even giving the Earthling characters importance by having them fuse and become super humans or something like that. Not that I have anything against fanfics. Dragon Ball Multiverse is incredibly good. I was not harping on general fanfics. Only the ones that come out of the "Dragon Ball AF" label.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by IgnorantFuniFan » Sun May 03, 2015 1:46 am

I want a really perverted god in one of the universes that steals Bulma and Goku and co. have to rescue her like a Super Mario game.
Let's just all get along and beat each other up

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by JamesOwnz » Sun May 03, 2015 5:38 am

I'd like to see some new attacks thought up that weren't just random generic Ki blasts.

Some new important characters but with the focus remaining on Goku and the gang.

Vegeta getting a chance to shine even more and not just be a punching bag.

the series taking place after the end of the manga.

some finality to the series... hope to see some deaths that actually stick this time and not just everything being brought back with the Dragon Balls.

trade negotiations.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by Kakarotto92 » Sun May 03, 2015 11:26 am

-Good writing
-Cool-looking/interesting/original villain character designs
-Highly intelligent and charismatic villains
-Characters' personalities faithful to their manga counterparts (I'm looking at you Vegeta bingo scene)
-Bring back the tension and that life-or-death "danger" vibe that’s been missing in the latest material, along with a more serious and darker tone (while never neglecting the comedy of course)
-Make the characters bleed and actually look damaged other than just some scratches
-Bring back the graphic violence displayed in the original series like in the images below (hopefully it won't be deliberately toned down by Toriyama or censored)
-Since (sadly imo) we're never going to see blonde SSJ Goku and Vegeta again, at least preserve that hair color to the remaining saiyans (I would really loathe to see blueper SSJ Gohan, Goten or Trunks)
-Good and intense fighting choreographies
-Less emphasis on brute strength and power and more on strategy and wits. Make the fights more cerebral.
-Teen or adult Trunks and Goten (I wouldn't mind seeing them as protagonists)
-Make Piccolo badass again
-More relevance and spotlight to other fighters other than Goku and Vegeta
-No more resurrection of characters with the dragon balls, if a character is killed let him/her stay dead forever
-Would really dig to see an entire arc inspired on the premise of that youngjijii doujin in which Goku returns to his original saiyan nature/personality and would then become a major villain which has to be stopped and eventually defeated by the Z fighters (Beerus and Whis couldn't interfere). If it's done right I feel it could become one of the best arcs in the entire franchise.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by IgnorantFuniFan » Sun May 03, 2015 11:48 am

i wonder who they're gonna bring back to animate. despite what most people think about the dbz sagas opening, i actually kinda like Shimanuki's style, and would like to see him animate a few episodes.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by sintzu » Sun May 03, 2015 11:54 am

JamesOwnz wrote:
Vegeta getting a chance to shine even more and not just be a punching bag.
Based on the last 2 movies I think it's safe to say he'll at least take down 1 main villain.

Hopefully he'll be the first to reach a new transformation as well.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun May 03, 2015 12:27 pm

IgnorantFuniFan wrote:i wonder who they're gonna bring back to animate. despite what most people think about the dbz sagas opening, i actually kinda like Shimanuki's style, and would like to see him animate a few episodes.
Given how involved he was with Fukkatsu no F he will probably be an animation supervisor for Dragon Ball Super.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by garnetjester » Sun May 03, 2015 2:10 pm

I want this series to resemble the original Dragon ball more than the Z style. I want more adventures and some goofiness, I wouldn't like it if everything were to be doom and gloom. I haven't seen FnF so I can't comment on where the direction of the franchise is going after that, but I liked the overall tone of BoG.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by ArchedThunder » Mon May 04, 2015 5:22 am

I really want it to take place after the end of Z, I'd like to see Vegeta take down a main villain and I want Uub to be the main character by the end of the series, kinda like how Gohan was built up in Z but actually follow all the way through with it.
EDIT: I don't know how I forgot this, but I really want it to finally deal with the other Universes is some way.
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by sanorin » Mon May 04, 2015 6:12 am

Mystic Tien wrote:
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Cooler, Cell, Captain Ginyu? :D
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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by SSJ4_Zankuto » Mon May 04, 2015 12:37 pm

What I hope to see would be seeing Gogeta or even a grown up Gotenks in Dragon Ball Super and also the minor characters, Oob, Pan and Bulla to get their spotlight too.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by Sinestro » Mon May 04, 2015 1:34 pm

I hope to see a villain with a decent personality and/or charisma.

And like with the movies, I'd like to see a good balance of action and humor, with a sprinkle of emotion.

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by bleed0range » Mon May 04, 2015 3:28 pm

I am trying really hard to think of ANYTHING new for Toriyama to do in this series and I am having a hard time. I mean... he's used..

* Time Travel
* Futuristic robots/technology as a weapon
* Wizardry/Magic as a weapon (babidi)
* Magical creature as a villain (buu)
* Hell spawn/creatures (Dabura)
* Aliens (Freeza/Vegeta)
* Goku's direct opposite as a rival... someone like Joker to Batman (Vegeta)
* A biological creature/monster (Cell)
* He has explored Heaven
* He has now explored Hell


I mean, what else is there to explore or new types of enemies? How creative can you guys get in thinking up something new? I can't. I know there's the other universes, but I mean how interesting can you make that if it rehashes the rest of the above stuff but just in a different environment (universe?)...???

I am trying to think of different kinds of classic movies and stories that he could borrow from. Stuff like Terminator (Android arc) or maybe space films (Aliens/Freeza)... no those are no good. Like what else is there? I suppose there could be a plot twist that reveals something like Goku has another brother who, unlike Radditz, has been able to become as powerful and gifted as Goku.. but that still feels pretty unoriginal.

What powers have they not already displayed in the series? ssjgssj doesn't really do anything new besides have blue hair. I cannot think of anything. At all. It all just feels like the only ideas people have are rehashes of things already done or borrowed ideas from GT (like revisiting Android 17).

Do you guys got any truly original ideas? I don't.

Best I could think up was Goku falling ill to (crap, heart virus... retread)... well how about Goku finds that the new SSJGSSJ ability has a side effect which rapidly ages him and we get to see an older Goku who has to defeat a bad guy but his natural strength begins to fade with age. Maybe this effects Vegeta too.

That's the only original thought I got!

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by LuckyCat » Mon May 04, 2015 3:56 pm

bleed0range wrote:I am trying really hard to think of ANYTHING new for Toriyama to do in this series and I am having a hard time. I mean... he's used..

* Time Travel
* Futuristic robots/technology as a weapon
* Wizardry/Magic as a weapon (babidi)
* Magical creature as a villain (buu)
* Hell spawn/creatures (Dabura)
* Aliens (Freeza/Vegeta)
* Goku's direct opposite as a rival... someone like Joker to Batman (Vegeta)
* A biological creature/monster (Cell)
* He has explored Heaven
* He has now explored Hell
Well this list is about the same as pre-BoG and yet somehow Toriyama was able to still use the idea of natural phenomena gods like the "God of Destruction" which delves into mythology. If that's the route he's going, there's plenty to explore. :mrgreen:

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Re: What do you hope to see in Dragon Ball Super?

Post by Doctor. » Mon May 04, 2015 3:59 pm

I'd just like to see creative environments again. Something like the locations of the first arc of the series, but use the environment to your advantage (or disadvantage) in battle. Planet Namek felt too boring as a location, the novelty wore off like 3 chapters in.

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