Complete list of plotholes/continuity issues in the manga?

[Doctor.]

Regardless of whether or not Toriyama liked the Bardock TV special (I assume that's what you're talking about) and included parts of it in his manga, Minus still has priority over it. Goku was never shown arriving to Earth in the manga, I repeat.

[Mystic Tien]

I'm not saying Goten and Trunks need to look taller. I'm just saying that they should've had refined features in their physique. Toriyama did it with Gohan during the Cell saga. Plus Goten's hair was long at the end of Z, so why didn't they follow that, starting with a different hairstyle. And their voices should've been mildly deeper.

The better argument is Trunks himself. Just look at how he is portrayed in "Trunks the Story –A Lone Warrior–"

Spoiler:

[Doctor.]

I'm not saying Goten and Trunks need to look taller. I'm just saying that they should've had refined features in their physique. Toriyama did it with Gohan during the Cell saga. Plus Goten's hair was long at the end of Z, so why didn't they follow that, starting with a different hairstyle. And their voices should've been mildly deeper.

The better argument is Trunks himself. Just look at how he is portrayed in "Trunks the Story –A Lone Warrior–"

Spoiler:

That version of Trunks is still older, though.

[EXBadguy]

Regardless of whether or not Toriyama liked the Bardock TV special (I assume that's what you're talking about) and included parts of it in his manga, Minus still has priority over it. Goku was never shown arriving to Earth in the manga, I repeat.

Yeah...I think you'd best read Gaffer Tape's post about that. He explained it very nicely.

The better argument is Trunks himself. Just look at how he is portrayed in "Trunks the Story –A Lone Warrior–"

Spoiler:

Oh shit! How old was THAT Trunks?

[Mystic Tien]

Fine, you win on Bulma, but the Dende situation, that's unforgivable compared to most of the plotholes and inconsistencies the original series had. Oh, and let's not forget that Whis should've been at least mentioned in the Buu saga, since the Kais were around.

I can't believe that I am doing it, but Mr.Satan was drunk. So that was the reason why he didn't recognize Dende.

What about Bulma on the other hand, she didn't seem to me as being lying, as she basically made an outburst or slip up, and was embarrassed after doing it. It was just a mistake, because the script was originally supposed to feature a wedding anniversary of Android 18 and Krillin.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But Cell should be able to read minds just as Piccolo did in his very first tournament so that should have been no problem. Just as Piccolo should have read of Boo's plan to absorb him.

When did Piccolo read a mind in the manga?

I'm not sure this qualifies as an error. "God ki" is a fan invention as far as I'm aware, and of the "gods" we've seen in the series only Beerus and Whis seem to possess the kind of ki that's so refined it can't be sensed.

It appears to be more a question of power than title, too. Remember, SSG Goku isn't actually a god in any official capacity, yet his ki can't be detected either. And if a mortal can come under possession of this special type of ki without necessarily becoming a "god" themselves (in the official sense), then I suspect the actual gods we see in the series, Dende and Kaio included, don't just suddenly get to have it because they happen to have been appointed to their specific position. I seriously doubt Goku would have immediately gotten this "God ki", as it is so called, had he just taken God's offer after his match with Piccolo at the 23rd.

The fact that mortals can't sense a god's ki isn't a fan-invention, it's repeatedly stated in the new movies. Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis coming, Kaio explained that a mortal like Goku shouldn't be able to sense a god's ki, Vegeta couldn't find Beerus because he couldn't sense his ki, Kuririn said that he couldn't read Goku's battle power, and Goku said that he couldn't use Shunkan Ido and go to Beerus' place because he can't sense Beerus' & Whis' ki to get there. Yet, Dende's ki can be sense in the manga, and Goku can sense Kaio's ki to go to his planet. He also attempted to use Shunkan Ido in order to go to Kaioshin Planet, but Kaio stopped him instead of telling him that he won't be able to go. What makes Beerus, Whis, and Super Saiyan God more godly than the Kamis, Kaios, and Kaioshins?

The only explanation I can think of this is that you will have to surpass a god in order to sense his power. But still, this doesn't stop it from being a plot-hole, since it isn't explained. Hopefully, we will get an explanation in DBS.

Oh, what about the number of wishes in BoG?

In manga Freeza states that Planet Vegeta was destroyed by him 30 years prior to his fight with Goku on Namek. It doesn't make sense, and doesn't fit with anything.

Added & added.

Of course 10 years of consistency for a weekly deadline manga series is harder than than an hour in a movie.

But he didn't make a contradiction that contradicts something from years before (other than strength/speed feats). The contradictions happen with chapters that aren't that far from each other. Hell, there is even a contradiction within one chapter!

Way to over exaggerate. Besides if you want to be consistent you can reread an familiarize yourself with the story (Which I think he said he did), and also have people around to help craft the stories. Like an editor. Hell I believe he said Naho Ooishi knows Dragon Ball better than him. Not to say she could make a better story, just that she's more knowledgeable. Have her around or someone like her to help him out.

He did read the manga again, but that doesn't mean that he won't make any mistakes. And in order to have someone around to help you, you will have to pay them, and I doubt Shueisha & Toei would care to go that far in order to keep small plot-holes away from a children story.

[Dyno]

Oh shit! How old was THAT Trunks?

14. Present Trunks in Movie 15 is 13.

[Mystic Tien]

Oh shit! How old was THAT Trunks?

At the very least he was 13 there, as Gohan died 13 years after Trunks was born. But he may be even younger, because we don't know how much time passed since Trunks training with Gohan to the time of Gohan dying. Trunks is 12 in BoG.

Oh shit! How old was THAT Trunks?

14. Present Trunks in Movie 15 is 13.

Is it 14? Oo Well, that means that I was off by a year.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

At the very least he was 13 there, as Gohan died 13 years after Trunks was born.

No, Gohan died 13 years after the Artificial Humans attacked. Trunks was born 1 year before the Artificial Humans attacked. Which make him 14 years old at the time Gohan died.

[EXBadguy]

Meh, I won't trash that age then. As said before, Kid Trunks was 12 in BoG, so I'm not that bothered. If he still looked like that at the age of 14, then that'd be a problem.

[dbzfan7]

Of course 10 years of consistency for a weekly deadline manga series is harder than than an hour in a movie.

But he didn't make a contradiction that contradicts something from years before (other than strength/speed feats). The contradictions happen with chapters that aren't that far from each other. Hell, there is even a contradiction within one chapter!

Weekly deadlines do that to you. Makes it hard to iron out every detail. With an hour movie there's a lot more time to iron out and think it over. Movie wise inconsistencies, that's a whole other topic and this is about the manga.

He did read the manga again, but that doesn't mean that he won't make any mistakes. And in order to have someone around to help you, you will have to pay them, and I doubt Shueisha & Toei would care to go that far in order to keep small plot-holes away from a children story.

It's called an editor. That is their job. In fact we got to see a bit of that from the new movie as they changed some things in Toriyama's script in Volume F. A little light on him, but it shows there already are people correcting him. They just need to be more abundant.

[Mystic Tien]

At the very least he was 13 there, as Gohan died 13 years after Trunks was born.

No, Gohan died 13 years after the Artificial Humans attacked. Trunks was born 1 year before the Artificial Humans attacked. Which make him 14 years old at the time Gohan died.

Yeah, I already got it, sorry, my mistake

Age inconsistencies is unforgivable as a whole. Dunno what else to say.

And I thought you liked GT. Because they obviously thought Bra was older.

Not really, it was Toriyama who thought that she was older.

Oh I still do like GT ten times better, I just think it's more enjoyable and sensible then those two movies. But I won't ignore the age inconsistency in that either. I know what right is right and wrong is wrong, unlike some people here who don't and has the "Toriyama glasses"(for example when Toriyama does Gold Freeza, it gets praised, but if Toei does did the same thing, it'll get horribly panned, and THAT'S A FUCKIN' FACT!).

Is there one? She looks pretty normal to me. It is just the way she dresses... And I believe it was Toriyama who intended for her to be older. GT staff barely has anything to do with it.

[Zephyr]

Goku was in the spaceship NAKED in the original series while in Minus he had clothes on.

As others have pointed out already, that was the anime. Not Toriyama.

Plus, the difference is that there were some unanswered parts in the RRA saga, and those are the androids, so it's not as contriving as the inconsistencies and the plotholes of the new movies.

What was ever left "unanswered" during the Red Ribbon Army arc? What the hell are the Androids "answering"? I could just as easily say "there were things left unanswered in the Namek arc that the new Freeza movie answers" without explaining what the hell I'm talking about, and I would rightly get shit for it.

Age inconsistencies is unforgivable as a whole. Dunno what else to say.

But what we have with Dende is a height inconsistency, not an age one. Likewise, it's one that is very possible due to Toei. Gyumao changed size several times in that movie alone, and I'd be surprised if Toriyama wrote into the screenplay "okay now Gyumao needs to be THIS big for this shot, but smaller for another one".

when Toriyama does Gold Freeza, it gets praised, but if Toei does did the same thing, it'll get horribly panned, and THAT'S A FUCKIN' FACT!

Your conjecture-reliant armchair psychology isn't a "FUCKIN' FACT", though. It's your own personal hypothesis of how some fans would react to something.

[Faustus]

The fact that mortals can't sense a god's ki isn't a fan-invention, it's repeatedly stated in the new movies. Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis coming, Kaio explained that a mortal like Goku shouldn't be able to sense a god's ki, Vegeta couldn't find Beerus because he couldn't sense his ki, Kuririn said that he couldn't read Goku's battle power, and Goku said that he couldn't use Shunkan Ido and go to Beerus' place because he can't sense Beerus' & Whis' ki to get there. Yet, Dende's ki can be sense in the manga, and Goku can sense Kaio's ki to go to his planet. He also attempted to use Shunkan Ido in order to go to Kaioshin Planet, but Kaio stopped him instead of telling him that he won't be able to go. What makes Beerus, Whis, and Super Saiyan God more godly than the Kamis, Kaios, and Kaioshins?

I meant that the term "God ki" is a fan invention, misleading people into thinking that all "gods" have it when that doesn't seem remotely to be the case. Beerus and Whis have it, but so does Goku, who, remember, isn't an actual god in an official sense (like Beerus or Kaio): so who's to say that all the official gods of the series from Dende to Kaioshin actually have this special type of ki? Had fans decided to call the highly refined, undetectable ki which Beerus and Whis possess "Super ki" or something like that, instead of "God ki", then nobody would be assuming that Kaio or Dende supposedly have it too.

[Mystic Tien]

Lemme rephrase then, he didn't have any clothes on during the Freeza war and arrived to earth naked.

Still not getting you... baby Goku was never shown in the manga, that I recall of, so we don't know if he arrived on Earth naked or not.

Well, actually he was... Mentioned by Raditz.

Spoiler:

The fact that mortals can't sense a god's ki isn't a fan-invention, it's repeatedly stated in the new movies. Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis coming, Kaio explained that a mortal like Goku shouldn't be able to sense a god's ki, Vegeta couldn't find Beerus because he couldn't sense his ki, Kuririn said that he couldn't read Goku's battle power, and Goku said that he couldn't use Shunkan Ido and go to Beerus' place because he can't sense Beerus' & Whis' ki to get there. Yet, Dende's ki can be sense in the manga, and Goku can sense Kaio's ki to go to his planet. He also attempted to use Shunkan Ido in order to go to Kaioshin Planet, but Kaio stopped him instead of telling him that he won't be able to go. What makes Beerus, Whis, and Super Saiyan God more godly than the Kamis, Kaios, and Kaioshins?

I meant that the term "God ki" is a fan invention, misleading people into thinking that all "gods" have it when that doesn't seem remotely to be the case. Beerus and Whis have it, but so does Goku, who, remember, isn't an actual god in an official sense (like Beerus or Kaio): so who's to say that all the official gods of the series from Dende to Kaioshin actually have this special type of ki? Had fans decided to call the highly refined, undetectable ki which Beerus and Whis possess "Super ki" or something like that, instead of "God ki", then nobody would be assuming that Kaio or Dende supposedly have it too.

Kaio and Kaioshin have it, as they were able to sense Beerus' ki, while no one else was.

[Dayspring]

He was shown as a baby in the manga, but it was in Raditz's thoughts and in no way gave any context or surrounding details. It was just an image of a baby Goku in a word balloon. There was no spaceship, no... Freeza war (I'm not even sure what that is)... no information whatsoever other than implying that this is how Raditz remembered "Kakarrotto."

This. It's also worth noting that memory-Goku also looks identical to how Goku looked like in that Saiyan incubator. In other words, Raditz's memory doesn't contradict the events of Minus because he wasn't there to see Goku taken out of the incubator, given clothing and sent off to Earth.

[EXBadguy]

What was ever left "unanswered" during the Red Ribbon Army arc? What the hell are the Androids "answering"?.

You remember Android 8/Eighter?

And like I said again, Gero's appearance isn't the same as semi-contradicting backstories. He's just a survivor who waited all these years to kill Goku, and he somewhat succeeded(Cell).

But what we have with Dende is a height inconsistency, not an age one. Likewise, it's one that is very possible due to Toei. Gyumao changed size several times in that movie alone, and I'd be surprised if Toriyama wrote into the screenplay "okay now Gyumao needs to be THIS big for this shot, but smaller for another one".

I wouldn't be surprised, cuz the Toriyama now forgets A LOT of stuff, like Android 18's hair.

Your conjecture-reliant armchair psychology isn't a "FUCKIN' FACT", though. It's your own personal hypothesis of how some fans would react to something.

Touche. But still, you know it's true, many people here have seen this hypocritical mentality, and it ain't just my hypothesis.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I meant that the term "God ki" is a fan invention, misleading people into thinking that all "gods" have it when that doesn't seem remotely to be the case. Beerus and Whis have it, but so does Goku, who, remember, isn't an actual god in an official sense (like Beerus or Kaio): so who's to say that all the official gods of the series from Dende to Kaioshin actually have this special type of ki? Had fans decided to call the highly refined, undetectable ki which Beerus and Whis possess "Super ki" or something like that, instead of "God ki", then nobody would be assuming that Kaio or Dende supposedly have it too.

I didn't use the term "god ki" in my post. But it was stated in the movie that Goku, a mortal, can't sense Beerus' ki because Beerus is a god, and mortals can't sense a god's ki. Kami, Kaio, and Kaioshin are all gods though, no different from the Hakaishin, as far as we know.

And Super Saiyan God is an actual god. He is stated to be the Kami/God of the Saiyans, just like Dende is the Kami/God of Earth.

Weekly deadlines do that to you. Makes it hard to iron out every detail. With an hour movie there's a lot more time to iron out and think it over. Movie wise inconsistencies, that's a whole other topic and this is about the manga.

There is no difference between the contradictions within the manga, and the contradictions between the movies & the manga. In both cases Toriyama forgot something from the past, and in both cases, Toriyama didn't have as much time as he liked to do his work.

There is no excuse for the errors, other than the fact that it's natural for humans to make mistakes, and Toriyama admits that he makes mistakes because he is a forgetful person.

And as for the exaggeration in my other post, I exaggerated on purpose because I can't stand of seeing people making excuses for the original manga, yet they bitch with all their might on the new movies when they do the same things that were done in the original manga. Which is what you do. I'm not saying you shouldn't dislike the new movies & dislike the original manga, but all this repeated negativity towards the new stuff is getting disgusting.

[Zephyr]

And like I said again, Gero's appearance isn't the same as semi-contradicting backstories. He's just a survivor who waited all these years to kill Goku, and he somewhat succeeded(Cell).

Yet it comes out of nowhere, with no prior implication of being a thing, and is not necessitated by anything. The backstories you have brought up entail no semi-contradicting, whatever that even means.

I wouldn't be surprised, cuz the Toriyama now forgets A LOT of stuff, like Android 18's hair.

For someone who drew the manga in black and white, that's far from surprising. Which makes it awful as a good representative sample of "this crazy huge list of things that Toriyama totally forgot", meant to convey the idea that "every single problem with every single piece of new Dragon Ball material is the direct result of Toriyama having forgetting one minute detail or another, and absolutely no other explanation will suffice".

But still, you know it's true, many people here have seen this hypocritical mentality, and it ain't just my hypothesis.

I could conjecture some armchair psychology your way: "these people that bash the new material would literally complain no matter what". Then I could say "sure, it's conjecture and armchair psychology, but you know it's true". That's an utterly unjustified assertion of "knowledge". You don't know what someone else knows. Moreover, it's a conjecture, and it's untested, which means that neither of us can know in the first place. I'm aware it's not just yours, but it's subjective and not something to be "known", nonetheless. Will some people exhibit this hypocritical favoritism? Certainly. But how many people will is another question entirely.

[dbzfan7]

Weekly deadlines do that to you. Makes it hard to iron out every detail. With an hour movie there's a lot more time to iron out and think it over. Movie wise inconsistencies, that's a whole other topic and this is about the manga.

There is no difference between the contradictions within the manga, and the contradictions between the movies & the manga. In both cases Toriyama forgot something from the past, and in both cases, Toriyama didn't have as much time as he liked to do his work.

There is no excuse for the errors, other than the fact that it's natural for humans to make mistakes, and Toriyama admits that he makes mistakes because he is a forgetful person.

And as for the exaggeration in my other post, I exaggerated on purpose because I can't stand of seeing people making excuses for the original manga, yet they bitch with all their might on the new movies when they do the same things that were done in the original manga. Which is what you do. I'm not saying you shouldn't dislike the new movies & dislike the original manga, but all this repeated negativity towards the new stuff is getting disgusting.

He has a week for the manga for each chapter and worked consecutively. For this movie I doubt he only had a single week. His script isn't even that large either. It's pretty small.

it's a reason for why more errors came about in the past, but is not a reason to excuse those errors. It's understandable and depending on preference forgivable or unforgivable.

I gave a reason to why it's harder to be consistent with a manga than a movie. I'm not comparing plot holes and overall inconsistencies as of course the manga has more of them. What I see is people being all for what back then was mocked to death. Mocked for being "Fanfiction', mocked for being typical deviantart crap, GT similarities, etc. It's all there and apparently now it's all cool. But again, this thread is strictly about manga plotholes and is not about the movies. I believe a movie thread was just made so by all means take that kind of discussion there.