If someone's opinion thinks - is anything but complete shit, it's wrong. Just like if their opinion was that the Earth was flat, or the stars were the burning ends of the angels' cigarettes.fexus wrote:Of course it's your opinion but the way people speak here is like they think their opinion is better than everyone else.
Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
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Lord Beerus
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Yes, we know for a fact that the Earth is not flat or that stars aren't the burning ends of the angels' cigarettes, but Dragon Ball Minus is not a proven scientific theory or thesis, it's just a 15 page one shot story of how Goku ended up on Earth, in Toriyama's interpretation. While fans may treat this story as fact from an in-universe perspective, it's still a fictional story can easily be ignored or interpreted as something right or wrong, because it's fiction. It has no real life bearing on the how the world works, so it can be interpreted by anyone as they please.Rocketman wrote:If someone's opinion thinks - is anything but complete shit, it's wrong. Just like if their opinion was that the Earth was flat, or the stars were the burning ends of the angels' cigarettes.
Spoiler:
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Except that can only happen regarding objective things, like the Earth being flat or not. What we think about a series will always be a subjective activity.Rocketman wrote:
If someone's opinion thinks - is anything but complete shit, it's wrong. Just like if their opinion was that the Earth was flat, or the stars were the burning ends of the angels' cigarettes.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Guys, it was a joke.
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Lord Beerus
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
The opinion of many people on Dragon Ball Minus and Episode Of Bardock.Doctor. wrote:Guys, it was a joke.
Spoiler:
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
How was he complex? The only difference they have is that the one doesn't care about his family if they are weak, and the other cares about his family regardless of their battle power.Doctor. wrote:TV Special Bardock was a complex character, Minus Bardock is not.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Because that Bardock actually developed throughout the entire special. Minus Bardock did not.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How was he complex? The only difference they have is that the one doesn't care about his family if they are weak, and the other cares about his family regardless of their battle power.Doctor. wrote:TV Special Bardock was a complex character, Minus Bardock is not.
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MCDaveG
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
EoB, that was so lame...
FighterZ, Street Fighter 6, Mortal Kombat: Funky_Strudel
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PS5: Dynamixx88
Trust me, I'm millenial and a designer.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
How did he develop?Doctor. wrote:Because that Bardock actually developed throughout the entire special. Minus Bardock did not.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
There's the obvious: initially portrayed as someone who didn't care about his son at all and later learns to respect and admire him due to the visions he receives of the future. Another facet of the Saiyans is also personified through Bardock, whom shows the Saiyan's less darker side, showcasing feelings of loyalty and camaraderie among one another, characteristics very absent in someone like Vegeta, or even Nappa to a lesser extent, for instance. You can say Minus Bardock also shows another side of the Saiyans, their more caring side, my Saiyans like Minus Bardock and Gine are very hard to come across so those characteristics cannot be applied to Saiyans in general. Development was the wrong word, as he doesn't develop much besides coming to admire his son, which only happens at the very end of the story, but his characterization is far superior to Minus Bardock, whose personality can be summed up to "kills people, somewhat intelligent, likes his wife and son". TV Bardock is just a better character, and mostly not because Minus Bardock is a bad character, but because he didn't have the same amount of screen-time to be properly utilized.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How did he develop?Doctor. wrote:Because that Bardock actually developed throughout the entire special. Minus Bardock did not.
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Lord Beerus
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
YMMV. FOG Bardock wasn't all that great of character, in all honesty. It was more the story and his fate and origin of Goku's arrival to Earth that people look back on fondly the most in regard to that TV special. Not that Minus Gardock is that much better of a character, it just that really Bardock just acted like every other Saiyan we've seen in the manga, anime or movie: He loves to kill and fight. The only major difference is he got pissed when he found what was happening to his race and wanted to stop it, or at least get revenge.Doctor. wrote:There's the obvious: initially portrayed as someone who didn't care about his son at all and later learns to respect and admire him due to the visions he receives of the future. Another facet of the Saiyans is also personified through Bardock, whom shows the Saiyan's less darker side, showcasing feelings of loyalty and camaraderie among one another, characteristics very absent in someone like Vegeta, or even Nappa to a lesser extent, for instance. You can say Minus Bardock also shows another side of the Saiyans, their more caring side, my Saiyans like Minus Bardock and Gine are very hard to come across so those characteristics cannot be applied to Saiyans in general. Development was the wrong word, as he doesn't develop much besides coming to admire his son, which only happens at the very end of the story, but his characterization is far superior to Minus Bardock, whose personality can be summed up to "kills people, somewhat intelligent, likes his wife and son". TV Bardock is just a better character, and mostly not because Minus Bardock is a bad character, but because he didn't have the same amount of screen-time to be properly utilized.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How did he develop?Doctor. wrote:Because that Bardock actually developed throughout the entire special. Minus Bardock did not.
Spoiler:
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
I didn't say TV Bardock was a great character, either, he was just the better characterized and utilized version of the character. I think he's a good one within the series, though.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
And they can interpret it wrongly, such as interpreting it to be good.Lord Beerus wrote:It has no real life bearing on the how the world works, so it can be interpreted by anyone as they please.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Demonstrate objectively and scientifically its "bad" quality, then.Rocketman wrote:And they can interpret it wrongly, such as interpreting it to be good.Lord Beerus wrote:It has no real life bearing on the how the world works, so it can be interpreted by anyone as they please.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
I gave it to my cat and he shredded it. Since my cat is the bestest kittywitty ever yes hims is, - must be bad.rereboy wrote:Demonstrate objectively and scientifically its "bad" quality, then.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Unopposable conclusions, really.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
He didn't care about his son because of his shitty battle power. After learning through his visions that he would rival Prince Vegeta & defeat Freeza, he came to like him. He didn't get any development, he was like that from the start, he only cares about his kids if they are strong. He didn't like him when he was weak, and he came to like him when he knew he would become strong.Doctor. wrote:There's the obvious: initially portrayed as someone who didn't care about his son at all and later learns to respect and admire him due to the visions he receives of the future. Another facet of the Saiyans is also personified through Bardock, whom shows the Saiyan's less darker side, showcasing feelings of loyalty and camaraderie among one another, characteristics very absent in someone like Vegeta, or even Nappa to a lesser extent, for instance. You can say Minus Bardock also shows another side of the Saiyans, their more caring side, my Saiyans like Minus Bardock and Gine are very hard to come across so those characteristics cannot be applied to Saiyans in general. Development was the wrong word, as he doesn't develop much besides coming to admire his son, which only happens at the very end of the story, but his characterization is far superior to Minus Bardock, whose personality can be summed up to "kills people, somewhat intelligent, likes his wife and son". TV Bardock is just a better character, and mostly not because Minus Bardock is a bad character, but because he didn't have the same amount of screen-time to be properly utilized.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:How did he develop?Doctor. wrote:Because that Bardock actually developed throughout the entire special. Minus Bardock did not.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
i like episode of bardock way more, allthough the whole thing should have been explained, with bardock going back in time from furiizas attack? also in my opinion eob would fit with the bardock tv special, db minus contridicts that.
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dae428
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
EoB.
DB Minus does have its fair share of problems but honestly it never really did anything to really annoy me. I mean sure it changed a few parts of Goku's origins and the fan accepted Bardock special origins, but honestly those were so minor to me in the first place that I didn't really care. If anything it's something I would want further expanded upon in a possible special because it was so short. I want to see more Bardock, Gine, Raditz, Vegeta, and even Nappa who didn't even appear in the chapter because they exist but were never really given the pages to fully flesh out their characters.
EoB on the other hand was a terrible experience that left me barely able to even get through it let alone enjoy it. Heck I've yet to even watch the animated version of it because the manga version was hard enough to read on its own. I mean honestly I feel like this special was tailor made to have everything I hate in stories. First off, EoB suddenly just has Bardock go back in time because of Freeza's giant 'death ball' attack? The story telling never explains this and is stupid lazy as a result. I hate when writers just have things happen for no reason whatsoever. I mean how hard would it be to have some random alien scientist just be there and warp Bardock back into the past because he thinks he may have the potential to kill Freeza's ancestors. Is my example stupid? Absolutely, but at the very least it explained something. Then we get the whole time travel thing, which I generally don't like. Time travel stories are often filled with plot holes that generally takes me out of the story due to the whole nature of paradoxes and whatnot. In the case of EoB it's one of those things where a character makes it so that something in the present time happens because he causes it by going into the past which makes no sense because the character never would have gone to the past in the first place if the events of the present never occurred. Then we have that terrible alien design in which all the aliens looks more or less the same but with different sizes. Why can't aliens have their own distinct look from one another? I mean they look like those stupid mascots in childrens shows but multiplied by 100 or so. I could forgive all this if the story was decent but it's really not. It's basically the lone hero who gets stuck in a 'new' world. Stupid kid for some reason helps the hero out just because he's nice like that but the hero rebuffs the kindness but eventually begins to succumb because despite his gruff exterior and whatnot he has a heart of gold. Soon, invaders of some sort invade the place the hero has been resting in either because of the hero or because they were always pricks and the hero saves the village and goes off into the sunset after beating the invaders. I mean if you're going to follow that story line at least pull a twist on it or do something original with it. I mean Rurouni Kenshin once pulled the same story line with Shishio and that one smiley kid but made it unique with it's own twist. Then we have the stupid SS transformation scene... I've always hated, absolutely hated the scene where Goku Jr. becomes a SS out of nowhere in the GT special. This goes as far as when I was a kid and I bought the special on VHS. So then when the same thing more or less happens in EoB, it was basically just a slap in the face. It didn't even really help that it was a one sided beat down and I couldn't even really enjoy the choreography of the fight because of it. I mean I don't know who this Bardock guy is really, I don't know who the aliens are, and I don't know who Chilled is. So this battle gave me no one to root for really and no sense of importance at all because I don't care about the characters. Actually, scratch that. I would've preferred it if Chilled won because while I don't care about him, I really, really hate those stupid aliens. So if he actually managed to kill all the aliens at the very least I would get some schadenfreude out of it.
So in short, DB Minus left me wanting more while EoB made me want to vomit before I even finished.
DB Minus does have its fair share of problems but honestly it never really did anything to really annoy me. I mean sure it changed a few parts of Goku's origins and the fan accepted Bardock special origins, but honestly those were so minor to me in the first place that I didn't really care. If anything it's something I would want further expanded upon in a possible special because it was so short. I want to see more Bardock, Gine, Raditz, Vegeta, and even Nappa who didn't even appear in the chapter because they exist but were never really given the pages to fully flesh out their characters.
EoB on the other hand was a terrible experience that left me barely able to even get through it let alone enjoy it. Heck I've yet to even watch the animated version of it because the manga version was hard enough to read on its own. I mean honestly I feel like this special was tailor made to have everything I hate in stories. First off, EoB suddenly just has Bardock go back in time because of Freeza's giant 'death ball' attack? The story telling never explains this and is stupid lazy as a result. I hate when writers just have things happen for no reason whatsoever. I mean how hard would it be to have some random alien scientist just be there and warp Bardock back into the past because he thinks he may have the potential to kill Freeza's ancestors. Is my example stupid? Absolutely, but at the very least it explained something. Then we get the whole time travel thing, which I generally don't like. Time travel stories are often filled with plot holes that generally takes me out of the story due to the whole nature of paradoxes and whatnot. In the case of EoB it's one of those things where a character makes it so that something in the present time happens because he causes it by going into the past which makes no sense because the character never would have gone to the past in the first place if the events of the present never occurred. Then we have that terrible alien design in which all the aliens looks more or less the same but with different sizes. Why can't aliens have their own distinct look from one another? I mean they look like those stupid mascots in childrens shows but multiplied by 100 or so. I could forgive all this if the story was decent but it's really not. It's basically the lone hero who gets stuck in a 'new' world. Stupid kid for some reason helps the hero out just because he's nice like that but the hero rebuffs the kindness but eventually begins to succumb because despite his gruff exterior and whatnot he has a heart of gold. Soon, invaders of some sort invade the place the hero has been resting in either because of the hero or because they were always pricks and the hero saves the village and goes off into the sunset after beating the invaders. I mean if you're going to follow that story line at least pull a twist on it or do something original with it. I mean Rurouni Kenshin once pulled the same story line with Shishio and that one smiley kid but made it unique with it's own twist.
Spoiler:
So in short, DB Minus left me wanting more while EoB made me want to vomit before I even finished.
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Kakacarrottop
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Re: Poll: What's worse, EoB or DB Minus?
Minus for me. I don't like the wussification of Bardock's character/The Saiyans.
"I will literally dress as Goku and walk around jumping up and down, pretending to fly, in public if this ever gets an official release"
- ShadowDude112 on Ocean's Kai dub
- ShadowDude112 on Ocean's Kai dub