Did Goku lose his God power?

[Truhan]

Judging by Toriyama's quote on Goku absorbing SSJG power and making it his own just shows me that he can achieve those levels of power in base and SSJ, as SSJGSSJ wasn't around when that quote was released. There's also this quote.

Goku endlessly keeps getting stronger, with Super Saiyan 3 in the manga and Super Saiyan 4 in the anime; does Super Saiyan keep getting limitlessly stronger too? Might we eventually see things such as a Super Saiyan 5…?!

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.

That in conjunction with the other quote about Goku absorbing SSJG seems to say that he can achieve those levels of power in base and SSJ, like I was saying prior.

I think that quote goes to prove that using transformations that Goku doesn't master would only waste the God Ki that is inside of him. Since he masters his SSJ transformation, he doesn't go any further, but his Base state is less than his SSJG one in terms of power, so we'll have to figure out whether or not the multiplier of 50 puts both on even terms. It shouldn't matter though, because SSGSS surpasses both.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's no canon and has no bearing on canon material.

Yes, it has. For starters, it isn't non-canon, since we don't have an established canon in the first place, and it is currently treated as an alternative timeline.

But anyway, canonicity has nothing to do with this. We have an occation where someone has the power of others, and his power is amplified because of that.

b) The second where he tries to use it to gain the upper hand on Whiss. It does prove to show a difference in power seeing as how he almost hits him.

Goku never transformed against Whis.

Beerus explicitly stated that Goku's power dropped slightly when he reverted back to his base form in BoG. So SSJG(presumably at 80% power, as that was the maximum percentage of ki he mentioned using right before the amp timed-out) IS more powerful than his base... Just not by much. So when Goku uses SSGSS in RoF, he does become more powerful, as he is able to access all of his Godly power. IOW: SSGSS~/>SSJG(100%)>SSJG(80%)>base. Imo, Goku's base form possesses between 60-70% the power of SSJG.

Base/SS Goku in BoG seems to be above 80% SSG Goku. SSG Goku was forced to use his full power when Beerus raised his power, after hearing that Goku was only at 80%, and he could still barely keep up with Beerus in base, and he did even better when he got more agressive as a SS.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Why is this thread even a debate in the first place? Toriyama explicitly stated that Goku absorbed the god powers and they became apart of him whether base or SSJ. Beerus states this in the BoG film too that his SSJG power up is apart of him now with only a little decrease. We have our answer. Digging too far into an established thing hurts your brain. A lot. Revival of F further supports this with SSJGSSJ.

[Sora Saiyan]

I think that quote goes to prove that using transformations that Goku doesn't master would only waste the God Ki that is inside of him. Since he masters his SSJ transformation, he doesn't go any further, but his Base state is less than his SSJG one in terms of power, so we'll have to figure out whether or not the multiplier of 50 puts both on even terms. It shouldn't matter though, because SSGSS surpasses both.

I really don't believe he can waste God ki, it's basically his own ki now. Unless when you say "waste" you mean drain, like how SSJ3 usually drain his ki.

Toriyama just doesn't think powered up variations of SSJ are the right way to do things, and It appears he wants base and SSJ to be the true forms. With how SSJGSSJ works it makes sense, as IMO it offers a small boost on his current base.
Actually looking at that quote again, it just seems to say that Goku can get a lot stronger using base and SSJ rather than SSJ2 and 3. Maybe he would be stronger if he powered up to SSJ3 but it would drain him too much for it to be useful, as it might only offer a small boost, or in fact maybe Goku can somehow unite the powers of his other SSJ forms in his usual SSJ form rendering them totally useless.
I'm just babbling now, it's hard to make sense of it.

[Truhan]

Yeah, it's not wasting it, but putting strain on his body instead. Nice catch

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

[h0kuten]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

What do you mean? He was with Beerus for the first half of the movie. He later senses the Z-Fighters and their normal Chi, all the way from Beerus' & Whiss' home world, and then Goku uses the IT to teleport to Earth. Beerus travels with Whiss.

[Doctor.]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

What do you mean? He was with Beerus for the first half of the movie. He later senses the Z-Fighters and their normal Chi, all the way from Beerus' & Whiss' home world, and then Goku uses the IT to teleport to Earth. Beerus travels with Whiss.

Goku says that it was with Whis' help that he and Vegeta arrived at Beerus' temple since he couldn't sense their Ki.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

What do you mean? He was with Beerus for the first half of the movie. He later senses the Z-Fighters and their normal Chi, all the way from Beerus' & Whiss' home world, and then Goku uses the IT to teleport to Earth. Beerus travels with Whiss.

I saw the movie last night,Goku said he needed Whis to get to Beers's home world. Because he can't sense his ki. He can sense frieza,but frieza isn't a god. Goku can't sense god ki yet apparently.

[Doctor.]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

What do you mean? He was with Beerus for the first half of the movie. He later senses the Z-Fighters and their normal Chi, all the way from Beerus' & Whiss' home world, and then Goku uses the IT to teleport to Earth. Beerus travels with Whiss.

I saw the movie last night,Goku said he needed Whis to get to Beers's home world. Because he can't sense his ki. He can sense Freeza,but Freeza isn't a god. Goku can't sense god ki yet apparently.

Which is stupid since he was using Instant Transmission all the time in his fight against Beerus, even after the SSG transformation disappeared.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

What do you mean? He was with Beerus for the first half of the movie. He later senses the Z-Fighters and their normal Chi, all the way from Beerus' & Whiss' home world, and then Goku uses the IT to teleport to Earth. Beerus travels with Whiss.

Goku says that it was with Whis' help that he and Vegeta arrived at Beerus' temple since he couldn't sense their Ki.

That's where it gets weird even more. Beerus said he's a god and not Whis. So how come Goku can't sense the ki of Whis? They need to explain this. The only thing I can think is the distance from earth to supreme kai's planet is MUCH shorter then the distance from Beerus's teple planet to earth and that's why Goku ccan't sense whis and Beerus.

Yes,he was using Instant transmition vs Beerus. This is either a plot hole or there's a massive distance or energy block with beerus's world and earth.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The weird thing is it's stated in Revival of F Goku has God ki now,but h states in the film he can't sense Beerus to use instant transmition. Shouldn't he be able to since he has God ki? He has God ki,but can't use it properly?

What do you mean? He was with Beerus for the first half of the movie. He later senses the Z-Fighters and their normal Chi, all the way from Beerus' & Whiss' home world, and then Goku uses the IT to teleport to Earth. Beerus travels with Whiss.

Goku says that it was with Whis' help that he and Vegeta arrived at Beerus' temple since he couldn't sense their Ki.

But we later see that Goku can't sense anyone's ki on Earth from Beerus' place because it's too far, which is why they were forced to power-up to their maximum in order to call him. So, it's possible that Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis because they were too far, and weren't powering-up.

[Doctor.]

But we later see that Goku can't sense anyone's ki on Earth from Beerus' place because it's too far, which is why they were forced to power-up to their maximum in order to call him. So, it's possible that Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis because they were too far, and weren't powering-up.

That's what I often interpret it as too, but I wouldn't put it past Toei/Toriyama that they had the other idea in mind.

[h0kuten]

Goku says that it was with Whis' help that he and Vegeta arrived at Beerus' temple since he couldn't sense their Ki.

But we later see that Goku can't sense anyone's ki on Earth from Beerus' place because it's too far, which is why they were forced to power-up to their maximum in order to call him. So, it's possible that Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis because they were too far, and weren't powering-up.

Great example.

Even as a SSJG Goku couldn't tell that Whiss was more powerful than Beerus.

[Darkprince410]

We have no idea what Whis is though. While we know that Beerus is a god and possesses god ki, we don't know what kind of life form Whis is, so we don't know what kind of ki he possesses. Besides, Goku not realizing that Whis is stronger than Beerus could simply mean that Whis was suppressing himself. After all, it's clear that, unless he wishes to indulge it himself, Beerus seemingly prefers that people not know that Whis is stronger than him, so it'd make sense for Whis to suppress his strength around those that could potentially sense him.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

We have no idea what Whis is though. While we know that Beerus is a god and possesses god ki, we don't know what kind of life form Whis is, so we don't know what kind of ki he possesses. Besides, Goku not realizing that Whis is stronger than Beerus could simply mean that Whis was suppressing himself. After all, it's clear that, unless he wishes to indulge it himself, Beerus seemingly prefers that people not know that Whis is stronger than him, so it'd make sense for Whis to suppress his strength around those that could potentially sense him.

Well Whis isn't a God. Beerus said "I'm the God Whis" implying Whis isn't a God so he doesn't hold wait in the strawberry count argument.

Whis said it's his job to watch over beerus. His job. And a female whis watches over fat Beeurs...makes you think each universe has a Whis to keep the Gods of destruction from being to good at their jobs. It also sounds complicated because Whis sounded like e was dumbing it down for Vegeta. I think with the universe 6 arc we'll learn the roles of each Whis and who they work for/what they are.

[h0kuten]

So lazy.

Why not create new, more powerful Gods and have Goku & Vegeta traverse the Universe while leaving the rest of the gang to defend Earth from some new threat?

Instead Toriyama just turns Beerus fat and changes Whiss' sex.

Like, cmon!!!!

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

So lazy.

Why not create new, more powerful Gods and have Goku & Vegeta traverse the Universe while leaving the rest of the gang to defend Earth from some new threat?

Instead Toriyama just turns Beerus fat and changes Whiss' sex.

Like, cmon!!!!

I think it's more then that,I think it's gonna help us know why Whis works for Beerus dispite being stronger,maybe Beerus and Whis are brother in laws?

[Low Tone G]

But we later see that Goku can't sense anyone's ki on Earth from Beerus' place because it's too far, which is why they were forced to power-up to their maximum in order to call him. So, it's possible that Goku couldn't sense Beerus & Whis because they were too far, and weren't powering-up.

That's what I often interpret it as too, but I wouldn't put it past Toei/Toriyama that they had the other idea in mind.

In Super, Kaioshin said that it should be impossible for Goku to ever meet Beerus because he can not sense him(Goku wasn't SSJ-God yet), and he lives on Earth which is very far from Beerus' temple. So I think Beerus' home should be on the brink of the Universe(LOL). Just thinking if that proves anything.... but it possibly does...

[Hitiro]

Which is stupid since he was using Instant Transmission all the time in his fight against Beerus, even after the SSG transformation disappeared.

I talked about this before in another thread with several people. It doesn't have to be stupid if Goku was using his friends as a reference point to teleport around Beerus. That's how I always saw it. So he doesn't need to have the ability to sense Beerus and Whis' ki. I always assumed he couldn't sense Godly Ki because if he could just by becoming a SSJGod then why was he still not sure if he was a SSJGod or not after he obtained the form? Surely if it were the simple matter of gaining Godly Ki to sense Godly Ki then Goku would have literally gone "Hey! I can sense Beerus and Whis now! I must be a SSJGod!" instead of questioning them. I mean just because characters like Freeza had massive amounts of Ki doesn't mean they automatically could sense Ki themselves. Sensing Godly Ki and sensing normal Ki probably have different ways of being sensed. It may be entirely possible for a being without Godly Ki to sense a person with Godly Ki also. Because if the Kaio has Godly Ki then he is a prime example of being able to sense Ki other than his type.

As I also pointed out from the BoG movie, nothing actually suggests he could sense Godly Ki. Unless you believe he was using his "Instant Transmission" based off of Beerus. But we can neither confirm nor deny it. Considering the new movie suggests Goku can't sense Godly Ki then I think the whole "Using Instant Transmission with his friends Ki's as reference points" is an entirely valid explanation.