Older DBZ movies compared to BoG/FnF

[ParkerAL]

Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters.

I wouldn't call Broly original. That's a bit generous. Really, he's in the same boat as the other movie rehash villains. I mean, has no one else noticed that he's just an evil version of Ultimate Super Saiyan Trunks with a tacked on backstory?

Spoiler:

[LuckyCat]

Ehh...Janemba was not really a new type of villain. He was probably...a retcon of Majin Buu.

I think you mean rehash rather than retcon as Janemba himself doesn't disrupt Buu's continuity at all. Yes though, you can make an argument that all the old movies were rehashes of the series to some extent or another, though different in design. The similarities aren't necessarily a bad thing, though. The movies were concise, and delivered some of the great ideas from the series in a quick watchable package.

[SaintEvolution]

Ehh...Janemba was not really a new type of villain. He was probably...a retcon of Majin Buu.

He was definitely not. Goku mentioned Buu after he turned Super Saiyan 3.

Well, he mentioned Buu, but that doesn't change that Janemba and Majin Buu are very similar characters, in many aspects.

Ehh...Janemba was not really a new type of villain. He was probably...a retcon of Majin Buu.

I think you mean rehash rather than retcon as Janemba himself doesn't disrupt Buu's continuity at all. Yes though, you can make an argument that all the old movies were rehashes of the series to some extent or another, though different in design. The similarities aren't necessarily a bad thing, though. The movies were concise, and delivered some of the great ideas from the series in a quick watchable package.

Actually, the 12nd movie has some continuity errors. But well, I don't disagree with some things here.

Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters.

I wouldn't call Broly original. That's a bit generous. Really, he's in the same boat as the other movie rehash villains. I mean, has no one else noticed that he's just an evil version of Ultimate Super Saiyan Trunks with a tacked on backstory?

Spoiler:

Maybe. The design is really similar and I didn't had thought this way.

[Sayo-chan]

A good production is a production that makes well the propose of it. Battle of Gods proposes a mundane/comedy with some action/light story. Being "mundane" it's not bad just because it's "mundane". It's the own purpose of the show. And I say that YOU was expecting something different cause YOU did that sub-understandable for what you said before.

I really don't understand. Why would the point of something be.... mundane? That's not a good thing, regardless of whether something is a "light story" or comedy. The adjective has both a negative denotation and connotation.

And Vegeta in Saiyan Saga was supposed to never be a good guy with a son and a wife. He just changed by the time, and the situation too(his relation with Beerus is a relation of extreme fear and respect, things that he doesn't have for other people).

Yeah, but he it's still vastly out of character for him to make an idiot of himself with bad singing/dancing in front of everyone. That's something I'd expect from Krillin or Yamcha.

And I compared GT to the old movies cause them are in general schizophrenic and bad. GT has many logical and chronological problems, as most of the old movies.

GT has a lot of continuity errors, but the first movie really doesn't. It has maybe one or two. Those few bumps are really irrelevant to the movie as a whole, I mean, why would someone be thinking, "Fucking Goku's not going to recognize Bulma and friends."? And again, what is "schizophrenic" about anything? Gohan gets drunk or high, not intentionally, but I somehow doubt that's what you're referring to. As far as I know, they don't see people in the corners of their eyes that aren't there, hearing little incoherent whispers that gradually become coherent.

Beerus is a spoiled character, but that really fits for funny and non-serious situations. He was not created to be like Freeza or Cell. It's again, the purpose of the character.

I don't see how that makes him funny, just irresponsible. The dynamic between he and Whis is decent, but I don't find it appropriate for their statuses.

And actually, I said the why you don't have good arguments. Most of my arguments about Dead Zone refuted your's. Also, about Piccolo and Goku's strange fast fight, it was just one point that makes the movie bad. It has others.

What exactly have you refuted? I don't see any of what you're saying. It's also not strange, it's very in character as I noted earlier.

I gave reasons. The retarded rushed fight between Goku and Piccolo was one of them. And there are more.

How was it rushed? The animation and choreography is stellar, it looks great. Also, rushed /=/ schizophrenic.

[SaintEvolution]

A good production is a production that makes well the propose of it. Battle of Gods proposes a mundane/comedy with some action/light story. Being "mundane" it's not bad just because it's "mundane". It's the own purpose of the show. And I say that YOU was expecting something different cause YOU did that sub-understandable for what you said before.

I really don't understand. Why would the point of something be.... mundane? That's not a good thing, regardless of whether something is a "light story" or comedy. The adjective has both a negative denotation and connotation.

And Vegeta in Saiyan Saga was supposed to never be a good guy with a son and a wife. He just changed by the time, and the situation too(his relation with Beerus is a relation of extreme fear and respect, things that he doesn't have for other people).

Yeah, but he it's still vastly out of character for him to make an idiot of himself with bad singing/dancing in front of everyone. That's something I'd expect from Krillin or Yamcha.

And I compared GT to the old movies cause them are in general schizophrenic and bad. GT has many logical and chronological problems, as most of the old movies.

GT has a lot of continuity errors, but the first movie really doesn't. It has maybe one or two. Those few bumps are really irrelevant to the movie as a whole, I mean, why would someone be thinking, "Fucking Goku's not going to recognize Bulma and friends."? And again, what is "schizophrenic" about anything? Gohan gets drunk or high, not intentionally, but I somehow doubt that's what you're referring to. As far as I know, they don't see people in the corners of their eyes that aren't there, hearing little incoherent whispers that gradually become coherent.

Beerus is a spoiled character, but that really fits for funny and non-serious situations. He was not created to be like Freeza or Cell. It's again, the purpose of the character.

I don't see how that makes him funny, just irresponsible. The dynamic between he and Whis is decent, but I don't find it appropriate for their statuses.

And actually, I said the why you don't have good arguments. Most of my arguments about Dead Zone refuted your's. Also, about Piccolo and Goku's strange fast fight, it was just one point that makes the movie bad. It has others.

What exactly have you refuted? I don't see any of what you're saying. It's also not strange, it's very in character as I noted earlier.

I gave reasons. The retarded rushed fight between Goku and Piccolo was one of them. And there are more.

How was it rushed? The animation and choreography is stellar, it looks great. Also, rushed /=/ schizophrenic.

That was just the purpose of the movie. It's not bad for being that. It would be bad if was bad executed(not funny, in the scenes that were deserved for being funny), but was well executed. The movie didn't deserves to have "fight scenes" all the time to be good, if was not the purpose of it. I can say the same of the original Dragon Ball.

About Vegeta, he was in a different situation of everything he did before. So, his actions, for logical questions, would be different of things he did before.

And no, the first movie, as most of the others, has many continuity errors, in a way that they can't even be embedded in a part of the manga. The movie was supposed to pass before Raditz's arc; Goku and Piccolo were still enemies, Krillin that had knowed Gohan yet, but at the final of the movie Gohan shows his capacities, and Krillin and Piccolo had saw that. It just cannot be placed in the manga chronologic(and no, it's not an "alternative timeline"). About the schizophrenic things, I cannot say much more if you just not interpret well my arguments and having a different understanding of them. I explaned in many ways the schizophrenism of Dead Zone movie(in plot and in pacing, with the example of that silly Goku and Piccolo fight), and for your commentaries, you probably didn't understanded. Also, the coreography was not "stellar". Was good and expected for a movie did in 1989/1990, but no an exception and extremely good example of quality.

Anyway, just to finish...

I don't see how that makes him funny, just irresponsible. The dynamic between he and Whis is decent, but I don't find it appropriate for their statuses.

It works for the funny moments. Also, Majin Buu and the Ginyu Force were funny characters too, and they were supposed to have "bigger statuses", the Ginyu Force as an elite squad of Frieza, and Majin Buu as the legendary strong demon who killed many people in the past.

[Sayo-chan]

That was just the purpose of the movie. It's not bad for being that. It would be bad if was bad executed(not funny, in the scenes that were deserved for being funny), but was well executed. The movie didn't deserves to have "fight scenes" all the time to be good, if was not the purpose of it. I can say the same of the original Dragon Ball.

You're not explaining how being mundane is the purpose of the movie, that's intrinsically a bad idea. I don't understand what you're saying beyond that. It's funny? Uh, yeah, there are varying senses of humor, but most of the humor in this movie is juvenile, which is what I'd expect from a kids movie. Dragon Ball in general has the ability to appeal to all ages, but the humor in this movie is mundane.

About Vegeta, he was in a different situation of everything he did before. So, his actions, for logical questions, would be different of things he did before.

Not really. Nothing warrants him acting the way he did. By your logic, he's different so he may as well start crossdressing.

And no, the first movie, as most of the others, has many continuity errors, in a way that they can't even be embedded in a part of the manga. The movie was supposed to pass before Raditz's arc; Goku and Piccolo were still enemies, Krillin that had knowed Gohan yet, but at the final of the movie Gohan shows his capacities, and Krillin and Piccolo had saw that. It just cannot be placed in the manga chronologic(and no, it's not an "alternative timeline").

I stated there was an issue with recognition and it really doesn't go beyond that. Goku and Piccolo being enemies isn't an issue either. You also can't provide evidence it's not in an alternative timeline, no more than I can that it is. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter. These things don't detract from whether the movie is good. If you're someone that's focusing on that the entire movie, all I have to ask is, why?

About the schizophrenic things, I cannot say much more if you just not interpret well my arguments and having a different understanding of them.

I'm not doing your work for you.

I explaned in many ways the schizophrenism of Dead Zone movie(in plot and in pacing, with the example of that silly Goku and Piccolo fight),

You didn't. I'm questioning if you know what schizophrenic means, because it's not at all applicable here. I already refuted that the fight isn't silly, it's in character. That's exactly why they should be doing it; they're enemies. Goku's not the savior of the universe, he's driven by his selfish ambitions, and that's what gives him depth. That's also another reason this movie's great.

and for your commentaries, you probably didn't understanded. Also, the coreography was not "stellar". Was good and expected for a movie did in 1989/1990, but no an exception and extremely good example of quality.

I understand my "commentaries" just fine. Please understand, the only thing I have difficulty with is your English. The choreography is stellar, it's hardly debatable. We see use of martial arts, something pretty rare for Z, and it's articulated very well. And The 80s/90s have some of the best animated movies of all time. The age of the movie only benefits it.

It works for the funny moments. Also, Majin Buu and the Ginyu Force were funny characters too, and they were supposed to have "bigger statuses", the Ginyu Force as an elite squad of Freeza, and Majin Buu as the legendary strong demon who killed many people in the past.

The Ginyus also took their job seriously, even if they looked like they didn't. Boo absorbed someone that gave him the mentality of a five year old. These are solid characters, Beerus really isn't, he hasn't had enough exposure and things aren't looking up for him.

[h0kuten]

These new movies expand on the Universe and are far, far better than any other movie Toei has made, probably because it has Toriyama's charm in it. One thing i quickly noticed while watching Battle of Gods or Fukkatsu no F is that is has a sort of 'weight' that the other DBZ movies don't have; reminiscent of the old Dragonball Z cartoon I grew up watching.

[SaintEvolution]

"You're not explaining how being mundane is the purpose of the movie, that's intrinsically a bad idea. I don't understand what you're saying beyond that. It's funny? Uh, yeah, there are varying senses of humor, but most of the humor in this movie is juvenile, which is what I'd expect from a kids movie. Dragon Ball in general has the ability to appeal to all ages, but the humor in this movie is mundane."

The movie is just a prologue to a bigger thing. The bigger thing is the "newer universes" thing. And he is ambiented in earth. Also, the humor in Dragon Ball series was always "juvenile". Dragon Ball never was an "adult series", but a shonen manga published in a shonen magazine.


"Not really. Nothing warrants him acting the way he did. By your logic, he's different so he may as well start crossdressing. "

Actually, something warrants him. The extremely fear, in the case. And he is not so long the pride warrior he was in Saiyan Saga. Look at him with the logic of the past Sagas is erroneous.


"I stated there was an issue with recognition and it really doesn't go beyond that. Goku and Piccolo being enemies isn't an issue either. You also can't provide evidence it's not in an alternative timeline, no more than I can that it is. It's irrelevant. It doesn't matter. These things don't detract from whether the movie is good. If you're someone that's focusing on that the entire movie, all I have to ask is, why?"

They were enemies, but Garlic was still alive and they were not so dumb at that time. Start to fight in a way light that was dumb. Also, the "alternative timeline" thing was only supposed to be recently, with Battle of Gods and Xenoverse. Not in 1990 with the old movies. Also, that was just one thing, but there are more that makes this movie bad(but honestly, I don't want now to talk about them).


"You didn't. I'm questioning if you know what schizophrenic means, because it's not at all applicable here. I already refuted that the fight isn't silly, it's in character. That's exactly why they should be doing it; they're enemies. Goku's not the savior of the universe, he's driven by his selfish ambitions, and that's what gives him depth. That's also another reason this movie's great. "

I did, I really did. You just didn 't get it. And if your level of interpretation of texts is like that, discuss with you will be not very gratifying for me.


"The Ginyus also took their job seriously, even if they looked like they didn't. Boo absorbed someone that gave him the mentality of a five year old. These are solid characters, Beerus really isn't, he hasn't had enough exposure and things aren't looking up for him."

They always did jokes about food and funny things and they choices to see who would fight were based in things like Jankenpo and others like that. That is not serious, it's funny.