Raging Vegeta Ssj2 (DB Super) vs Super Vegetto (DB Super)

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara an option after he DID see it.

Goku isn't dumb (about fighting) he knew the 1% he saw wasn't everything. Usually when your opponent is curbstomping you with one finger, they aren't going all out.

[Blackstripe]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara an option after he DID see it.

Goku isn't dumb (about fighting) he knew the 1% he saw wasn't everything. Usually when your opponent is curbstomping you with one finger, they aren't going all out.

I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore. Facts are fact.

Gokuu didn't think Vegetto could defeat Beerus. He would have tried that. He had plenty of time to ask the Kaioshin for potara if he wanted to.

He knew it would be useless, so he didn't. The Super Saiyan God was their only hope. This was the entire point of showing Beerus curbstomping everyone.

[mikey4111]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara an option after he DID see it.

Oh snap my bad. Did Goku say it after Vegeta's right in BOG? Or maybe I'm just losing it.

[Blackstripe]

Goku saw Rageta fight Beerus.

*facepalm*

Not...when...he...said...that...

And he still didn't consider potara an option after he DID see it.

Oh snap my bad. Did Goku say it after Vegeta's right in BOG? Or maybe I'm just losing it.

Did he have to? He was watching most of the fight, and still didn't suggest fusion. He could've gotten some potara, or tried the dance, but he knew it wouldn't be enough.

Beerus MUST >>> fusion. There's just no getting around that.

[mikey4111]

So all we know is that Rageta surpassed Goku and that Beerus had to use 10% of his power to beat Rageta. I still don't see how Rageta surpassed Vegito. Yea Goku said fusing wouldn't work, but that doesn't mean Beerus wouldn't have to use more then 10% of his power to beat Vegito.

[mikey4111]

I never suggested any fusion > Beerus.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

[

I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore. Facts are fact.

Gokuu didn't think Vegetto could defeat Beerus. He would have tried that. He had plenty of time to ask the Kaioshin for potara if he wanted to.

He knew it would be useless, so he didn't. The Super Saiyan God was their only hope. This was the entire point of showing Beerus curbstomping everyone.

Goku thought it wouldn't work. I don't think it would have either. But that doesn't have to mean Vegetto wouldn't have pushed Beerus to show more power. ( I feel 40% is about right)

[Blackstripe]

So all we know is that Rageta surpassed Goku and that Beerus had to use 10% of his power to beat Rageta. I still don't see how Rageta surpassed Vegito. Yea Goku said fusing wouldn't work, but that doesn't mean Beerus wouldn't have to use more then 10% of his power to beat Vegito.

Because if Vegetto = 10% of Beerus, then what's the point of Super Saiyan God?

Look:

Beerus - 100

Beerus 10% - 10

Super Vegetto - 10

SSJ2 Vegetto - 20

SSJ3 Vegetto - 80

And yet, we know that Super Saiyan God Gokuu was only 60% of Beerus' full power. Gokuu outright states that Super Saiyan God was a realm of power he didn't know existed...so Super Saiyan God at 60%, MUST be higher than anything Vegetto can do. Unless you think Vegetto absolutely could NOT go higher than Super Saiyan, then that's how it is.

[mikey4111]

[

I'm not sure what you're even arguing anymore. Facts are fact.

Gokuu didn't think Vegetto could defeat Beerus. He would have tried that. He had plenty of time to ask the Kaioshin for potara if he wanted to.

He knew it would be useless, so he didn't. The Super Saiyan God was their only hope. This was the entire point of showing Beerus curbstomping everyone.

Goku thought it wouldn't work. I don't think it would have either. But that doesn't have to mean Vegetto wouldn't have pushed Beerus to show more power. ( I feel 40% is about right)

That's what I'm saying.

[mikey4111]

So all we know is that Rageta surpassed Goku and that Beerus had to use 10% of his power to beat Rageta. I still don't see how Rageta surpassed Vegito. Yea Goku said fusing wouldn't work, but that doesn't mean Beerus wouldn't have to use more then 10% of his power to beat Vegito.

Because if Vegetto = 10% of Beerus, then what's the point of Super Saiyan God?

Look:

Beerus - 100

Beerus 10% - 10

Super Vegetto - 10

SSJ2 Vegetto - 20

SSJ3 Vegetto - 80

And yet, we know that Super Saiyan God Gokuu was only 60% of Beerus' full power. Gokuu outright states that Super Saiyan God was a realm of power he didn't know existed...so Super Saiyan God at 60%, MUST be higher than anything Vegetto can do. Unless you think Vegetto absolutely could NOT go higher than Super Saiyan, then that's how it is.

Well SSJ3 Vegito still is only at 80, that's not enough to beat Beerus. And no one knew how strong SSJ God would be, they didn't know it was only gonna 60% of Beerus.

[Blackstripe]

Well SSJ3 Vegito still is only at 80, that's not enough to beat Beerus. And no one knew how strong SSJ God would be, they didn't know it was only gonna 60% of Beerus.

He said that AFTER he gained the power, so I think he would know by then.

[Sodhi]

To me the only place that Beerus used 10% on vegeta, was when he got hit by that full powered Garlic gun. I heard beerus groaning,and he was pushed back, as if the garlic gun got him by surprise.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

So all we know is that Rageta surpassed Goku and that Beerus had to use 10% of his power to beat Rageta. I still don't see how Rageta surpassed Vegito. Yea Goku said fusing wouldn't work, but that doesn't mean Beerus wouldn't have to use more then 10% of his power to beat Vegito.

Because if Vegetto = 10% of Beerus, then what's the point of Super Saiyan God?

Look:

Beerus - 100

Beerus 10% - 10

Super Vegetto - 10

SSJ2 Vegetto - 20

SSJ3 Vegetto - 80

And yet, we know that Super Saiyan God Gokuu was only 60% of Beerus' full power. Gokuu outright states that Super Saiyan God was a realm of power he didn't know existed...so Super Saiyan God at 60%, MUST be higher than anything Vegetto can do. Unless you think Vegetto absolutely could NOT go higher than Super Saiyan, then that's how it is.

Vegetto may not have SSJ3, and even if he did, it doesn't have to be 8x stronger than SSJ1

[Blackstripe]

Vegetto may not have SSJ3, and even if he did, it doesn't have to be 8x stronger than SSJ1

If you want to say that, then fine.

I think it is easier to assume that he is weak enough that it wouldn't even matter. In any case, he needs to be very significantly weaker than Super Saiyan God. I would never place his absolute maximum power above 20% of Beerus myself.

[Sora Saiyan]

I have SSJ3 Goku from Z being at a level where even if Beerus used 0.001% of his power Goku wouldn't stand a chance. So I really believe that Goku had no way of estimating Beerus true power because it's just far too high. SSJ2 Rageta couldn't harm Beerus or leave any lasting damage so I don't put him any higher than 3%.

With the rage boost Vegeta jumped way way higher than SSJ3 Gotenks and Chou Gohan, he actually did hit Beerus a couple of times, but once Beerus did decide to fight back Vegeta was K.O'd by Beerus raising his hand, though Vegeta was a little bit worn out.
I do believe Vegeta jumped above Super Vegetto as well, since even if Goku was trying to gauge Beerus' true power he'd fall ridiculously short, and wouldn't even end up with close to 10% Beerus IMO. That's if Goku was trying to estimate what Beerus was capable of, it could just be Goku realising that what Beerus had shown would be too much for Vegetto, and that's the easiest one to understand without all the guess work. To be fair, this leads to Vegetto not being close to SSJG which fits with Goku not thinking a realm like SSJG did exist. In my new list SSJ3 Vegetto is 20% of SSJG.

[ekrolo2]

Does it even make sense to use Goku's whole "I could never attain this world on my own" statement? Especially since Supers rendition of the fight could just as easily cut that out or alter it.

[saunasolmu]

We know that Vegeta far and way surpassed Mystic Gohan, is it really so unbelievable that he could've surpassed Vegetto as well?

[rereboy]

We know that Vegeta far and way surpassed Mystic Gohan, is it really so unbelievable that he could've surpassed Vegetto as well?

Surpass Vegetto from the Buu saga, ok. But it doesn't make sense to say he is superior to Vegetto in Super... Vegetto in Super is Vegeta in Super plus Goku in Super.

[Low Tone G]

We know that Vegeta far and way surpassed Mystic Gohan, is it really so unbelievable that he could've surpassed Vegetto as well?

No way. All Vegeta did that he surpassed Goku, as Beerus mentions. That's all, and the statement of using 10% of power against him doesn't make a sense being that Vegetto was an option, but discarded immediately. That would mean that Vegetto as a SSJ3 would surpass Beerus and Whis by a large margin.

[Lord Beerus]

We know that Vegeta far and way surpassed Mystic Gohan, is it really so unbelievable that he could've surpassed Vegetto as well?

No way. All Vegeta did that he surpassed Goku, as Beerus mentions. That's all, and the statement of using 10% of power against him doesn't make a sense being that Vegetto was an option, but discarded immediately. That would mean that Vegetto as a SSJ3 would surpass Beerus and Whis by a large margin.

But from the strength that Beerus was using against him as Beerus trounced him as a SSJ3, which was way less 10%, Goku concluded that fusion, Fusion Dance and/or Potara, wouldn't be enough to put up a fight against Beerus. It's ridiculous, I know, but all the signs point towards; SSJ2 Rage Vegeta > Super Vegetto.

That's just how it is.