Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Piccolo telling Super Buu to kill people in where Buu immediately kills everyone on Earth outside of Mr. Satan, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu. Piccolo didn't see that one coming.
Cipher wrote:Also, TV Tropes is awful.
Cipher wrote:Re: TV Tropes: It's just that exists at the whims of people who lean far toward the nerdy side of pop culture and are generally unequipped to discuss fiction in a serious way, adding all these reference-heavy terms to aspects of writing for which critical language already exists. It doesn't exist to help identify or discuss tropes, or at least not anymore. It exists because it's fun to point out which characters are the "Big Bad" in your three favorite anime or whatever.
There's also the fact that it's so granular it's functionally useless for actual analysis, and has a self-indulgent quality to to its writing. This is from an actual article on the superhero "trope" of "Fights Like a Normal":
Then there's the rest of them. They have bona-fide powers that set them apart from Puny Earthlings, but for one reason or another, they either can't or won't just rely on them alone. They've taken Boxing Lessons For All Those Other Poor Schmucks, and fight very similarly to a Badass Normal most of the time. This can be for any of several reasons:
That's in the summary, and all those capitalized phrases are links to other "tropes" someone on the site's written about. What the actual fuck is that. Talk like a normal person! An entire field of academia exists for this and somehow manages to be less insufferable even at its most inscrutable and dry.
I don't know. There's this masturbatory, sheltered element to it that's always put me off, along with how heavily it's trafficked on the web and presented as if people should be familiar with its specific (superfluous) terminology.
Cipher wrote:
precita wrote:TV tropes exist to tell us there are only 10 stories in all of fiction, and only a certain amount of character personality types that are re-used everywhere.
It goes about it an outstandingly masturbatory way.
It also invites this culture of playing the game of fitting even nuanced characters into their nearest trope (and why not, when you have hundreds to choose from), which I disagree with on a lot of levels.
EDIT --
In which Cipher hates on TV Tropes.
100% agreed. My favorite TVTropes-related incident is when someone seriously tried to claim that various Nightmare on Elm Street sequels deconstruct horror tropes because the black guy doesn't die first. Like what?
Funny thing is, a black guy does die first in NOES4.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
The best TV Tropes incident is when they decided to put the word "Badass" in front of like 20 different words, so they could have an excuse to say "this character is cool" 20 times on every single page. Or maybe when they absolutely insisted that a "trope" meaning, basically, "plan", get named after a side character from a children's cartoon from the 90s that no one has ever heard of. Unless they watch the "Nostalgia Critic", AKA TVT's god.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Uhhh thats troper tales and the pages dont exist anymore
But yeah they deserved to be axed
Gives you an idea of who the people "writing" the 'wiki' are, though.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Man-Child wrote:I guess the constant "boinging" sound in the music during Bora's death in DB might count.
THANK YOU! I've been saying that for years. That scene would be perfect if it wasn't for that BOING. Who in the world thought that was a good idea to use that instrument, especially for a scene like that?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Shame too, because the melody otherwise was superb. I wasn't bothered by the music the first time I watched the scene, and truth be told, I still enjoy it, but that instrument (whatever it is) definitely does undercut it a bit.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
RandomGuy96 wrote:The best TV Tropes incident is when they decided to put the word "Badass" in front of like 20 different words, so they could have an excuse to say "this character is cool" 20 times on every single page. Or maybe when they absolutely insisted that a "trope" meaning, basically, "plan", get named after a side character from a children's cartoon from the 90s that no one has ever heard of. Unles they watch the "Nostalgia Critic", AKA TVT's god.
Makes you wonder how they'd react if Nostalgia Critic ever choose to review DBZ.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
Thanks everyone!
Now I forgot what I was here in the first place xD
Big Green: Do whateveryoulike, Ghos
Broly: haha He calls me a goohst, but IMMMD DA DEVVVVAAALLL! RAHAHAHAHA!
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Trunks: "Dhe computer selffishy intesnafiy dosuementos."
Android 13: Yum Boy
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Vegeta: The Legendary Warrior of SpaZe.
RandomGuy96 wrote:The best TV Tropes incident is when they decided to put the word "Badass" in front of like 20 different words, so they could have an excuse to say "this character is cool" 20 times on every single page. Or maybe when they absolutely insisted that a "trope" meaning, basically, "plan", get named after a side character from a children's cartoon from the 90s that no one has ever heard of. Unles they watch the "Nostalgia Critic", AKA TVT's god.
Makes you wonder how they'd react if Nostalgia Critic ever choose to review DBZ.
They make a new "trope" called the The Zarbon. This refers to the "trope" of one character punching another character in the face.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Btw, do fan works and comics count? Because if so...awkward English ahoy!
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
Kid Buu wrote:The Zarbon: Subverted when Nappa decided to punch Tenshinhan in the arm instead of the face.
The Zarbon: Inverted when Piccolo kicks Freeza in the face. Deconstructed by Cell, who gets punched in the face by 16 but isn't hurt.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
For me is when Dameon Clarke Perfect Cell screams in the Kai version. I laughed my ass for no reason because its sounds like he is in a Opera. Another thing is Chris Sabat original Vegeta in the Frieza Saga performance. Its absolutely the worst dub voice but its hilarious to hear.
precita wrote:In the dub during Gohan Vs. Gotenks Buu:
Gohan: Now you're going to see why my little brother looks up to me.
Gotenks Buu: He...doesn't.
That was...odd.
I liked that bit of dialogue: "In fact, he wonders why you let me take him". Though I would have preferred "Because he's shorter than you, dumbass".
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
