Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, etc.

[Kendamu]

Wow! I inspired a thread! Kind of!

Joining Twitter was actually specifically related to this forum. There's no "off topic" section here and I wanted to chat it up with my forum friends about things other than Dragon Ball, so we all hopped on Twitter to do just that.

In the years since that happened, it's become the social media we know today that you mentioned at the beginning of the thread, VegettoEX. My association with people related to Dragon Ball has exploded in ways that I never imagined. It's to the point where, while I don't produce very much content related to Dragon Ball, some people consider me an "icon" of the Dragon Ball community just because I know people like you or Justin Rojas from FUNimation. I actually have to go out of my way to say, "Nah, I'm not important at all."

Really, though, the way I tend to use it in relation to Dragon Ball (with the intent to create some sort of impact) has to do with the attention I give the VIZ and Shonen Jump accounts. I mean, Shonen Jump follows me on Twitter! How crazy is that?! Since the manga is pretty much my go-to version of Dragon Ball, I tend to try and generate interest in things such as the (recently brought back) Full Color Dragon Ball volumes and then show those accounts that an interest does exist. I'm starting to do the same for the pre-Raditz stuff now, too, and I find it far more effective than any email campaigns, petitions, or surveys (such as that DBZ Blu-ray 4:3/16:9 survey from FUNi) in letting them know what we want in a way that gets the companies to pay attention.

Anywho, everyone, buy the Full Color Dragon Ball manga. Tell your friends to buy it, too.

[coola]

Well, in my "youth" times, people used to write stuff on walls, like "Legia Warszawa sucks" now such wall is Twitter and Facebook, by joining them, you can except such trash talk

[Kamiccolo9]

Edit: Stupid Phone.

@Kid Buu,
What you just described is an ignorant cultural bias. It's the same phenomenon that causes people to fear and distrust things that are different, but taken to the opposite extreme of considering something you have little actual experience with "better" because it is different.

[DoomieDoomie911]

I think it's a vast simplification to say this is a "Millennial Problem." I mean, look at the current election in the U.S. Check out any Facebook thread dealing with any issue concerning any political thing. You'll see huge amounts of the kind of behavior mentioned in the OP from all age groups, not just the young 20-somethings that make up the Millennials.

If anything, Millennials are an easy scapegoat for the older generations to blame most the current problems on. And, in the same fashion, Millennials will tend to blame most of the current problems on the older groups. This is not a new thing. Every single generation goes through this, back to the Boomers, and the Silent Generation, and whatever you call the groups before that. There has always been a "old vs new" mentality. The current version of this conflict on social media is just the latest iteration of this age-old issue.

This is a people issue, not a generational one. Every generation goes through this. We just have now, as Mike has called it, the Social Media Echo-Chamber that makes it reverberate louder this time around. It'll happen again with the next generation, and the next one, and the next one, when the current groups of "young people" become "old people."

Blaming one specific group for this is showing an incredible disservice to that group. Your parents had the exact same issue with your grandparents, and so on. This time around is nothing special.

Yes, but you can't deny that Millennials have traits that are a lot worse than older generations. I mean, they LITERALLY believe that they have the "right to not be offended". Just look at most college campuses nowadays; they don't think they have any authority. Older generations never had this problem. I mean, I guess you could say that the Vietnam protest movement in the 1960's was a bit similar, but I don't even know if that was this bad... It scares me to think about how this generation is going to be leading the world in a few years...

[Kamiccolo9]

I think it's a vast simplification to say this is a "Millennial Problem." I mean, look at the current election in the U.S. Check out any Facebook thread dealing with any issue concerning any political thing. You'll see huge amounts of the kind of behavior mentioned in the OP from all age groups, not just the young 20-somethings that make up the Millennials.

If anything, Millennials are an easy scapegoat for the older generations to blame most the current problems on. And, in the same fashion, Millennials will tend to blame most of the current problems on the older groups. This is not a new thing. Every single generation goes through this, back to the Boomers, and the Silent Generation, and whatever you call the groups before that. There has always been a "old vs new" mentality. The current version of this conflict on social media is just the latest iteration of this age-old issue.

This is a people issue, not a generational one. Every generation goes through this. We just have now, as Mike has called it, the Social Media Echo-Chamber that makes it reverberate louder this time around. It'll happen again with the next generation, and the next one, and the next one, when the current groups of "young people" become "old people."

Blaming one specific group for this is showing an incredible disservice to that group. Your parents had the exact same issue with your grandparents, and so on. This time around is nothing special.

Yes, but you can't deny that Millennials have traits that are a lot worse than older generations. I mean, they LITERALLY believe that they have the "right to not be offended". Just look at most college campuses nowadays; they don't think they have any authority. Older generations never had this problem. I mean, I guess you could say that the Vietnam protest movement in the 1960's was a bit similar, but I don't even know if that was this bad... It scares me to think about how this generation is going to be leading the world in a few years...

Oh, you bet I can.

And yes, they did.

Again these older generations that you are talking about are the ones that tried to ban comic books, because they were "too violent." Or they tried to ban women working because "they would distract the men too much." The way women dressed in the 20's was treated as the coming of the end of the world via God's judgment due to their "promiscuity." And, on the other side, had children working in factories because they could fit between moving machinery better than adults could.

I teach on a college campus. It's not nearly as homogenized as you are portraying.

Anyone who thinks that the current situation is anything new has no real knowledge of history or sociology. This is an age-old conflict that has existed since the beginning of time. You will always have people going "Well back in MY day, things were better..." with the younger generations replying with "Yeah, back when half the kids were dying off from Polio. Good thing we fixed that, huh?"

The exact same thing is going to happen with the next generation. And the next. And the next. Etc.

[DoomieDoomie911]

I think it's a vast simplification to say this is a "Millennial Problem." I mean, look at the current election in the U.S. Check out any Facebook thread dealing with any issue concerning any political thing. You'll see huge amounts of the kind of behavior mentioned in the OP from all age groups, not just the young 20-somethings that make up the Millennials.

If anything, Millennials are an easy scapegoat for the older generations to blame most the current problems on. And, in the same fashion, Millennials will tend to blame most of the current problems on the older groups. This is not a new thing. Every single generation goes through this, back to the Boomers, and the Silent Generation, and whatever you call the groups before that. There has always been a "old vs new" mentality. The current version of this conflict on social media is just the latest iteration of this age-old issue.

This is a people issue, not a generational one. Every generation goes through this. We just have now, as Mike has called it, the Social Media Echo-Chamber that makes it reverberate louder this time around. It'll happen again with the next generation, and the next one, and the next one, when the current groups of "young people" become "old people."

Blaming one specific group for this is showing an incredible disservice to that group. Your parents had the exact same issue with your grandparents, and so on. This time around is nothing special.

Yes, but you can't deny that Millennials have traits that are a lot worse than older generations. I mean, they LITERALLY believe that they have the "right to not be offended". Just look at most college campuses nowadays; they don't think they have any authority. Older generations never had this problem. I mean, I guess you could say that the Vietnam protest movement in the 1960's was a bit similar, but I don't even know if that was this bad... It scares me to think about how this generation is going to be leading the world in a few years...

Oh, you bet I can.

And yes, they did.

Again these older generations that you are talking about are the ones that tried to ban comic books, because they were "too violent." Or they tried to ban women working because "they would distract the men too much." The way women dressed in the 20's was treated as the coming of the end of the world via God's judgment due to their "promiscuity." And, on the other side, had children working in factories because they could fit between moving machinery better than adults could.

There were certainly bad ideas and customs in the past, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that we have never seen a generation act like this one.

I teach on a college campus. It's not nearly as homogenized as you are portraying.

Depends on which college you're teaching at. Some aren't nearly as bad as others.

Anyone who thinks that the current situation is anything new has no real knowledge of history or sociology. This is an age-old conflict that has existed since the beginning of time. You will always have people going "Well back in MY day, things were better..." with the younger generations replying with "Yeah, back when half the kids were dying off from Polio. Good thing we fixed that, huh?"

The exact same thing is going to happen with the next generation. And the next. And the next. Etc.

Again, I can't think of a generation that has acted like this one. I'm not saying that the older generation didn't have messed up ideas or that they were perfect angels, I'm just saying that this new movement among young people is something that we haven't seen before. The political correctness and sensitivity is over-the-top, and I can't think of a time where it's been like this.

[rereboy]

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise" - Socrates

Socrates lived hundreds of years before Jesus.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think it's a vast simplification to say this is a "Millennial Problem." I mean, look at the current election in the U.S. Check out any Facebook thread dealing with any issue concerning any political thing. You'll see huge amounts of the kind of behavior mentioned in the OP from all age groups, not just the young 20-somethings that make up the Millennials.

If anything, Millennials are an easy scapegoat for the older generations to blame most the current problems on. And, in the same fashion, Millennials will tend to blame most of the current problems on the older groups. This is not a new thing. Every single generation goes through this, back to the Boomers, and the Silent Generation, and whatever you call the groups before that. There has always been a "old vs new" mentality. The current version of this conflict on social media is just the latest iteration of this age-old issue.

This is a people issue, not a generational one. Every generation goes through this. We just have now, as Mike has called it, the Social Media Echo-Chamber that makes it reverberate louder this time around. It'll happen again with the next generation, and the next one, and the next one, when the current groups of "young people" become "old people."

Blaming one specific group for this is showing an incredible disservice to that group. Your parents had the exact same issue with your grandparents, and so on. This time around is nothing special.

Yes, but you can't deny that Millennials have traits that are a lot worse than older generations. I mean, they LITERALLY believe that they have the "right to not be offended". Just look at most college campuses nowadays; they don't think they have any authority. Older generations never had this problem. I mean, I guess you could say that the Vietnam protest movement in the 1960's was a bit similar, but I don't even know if that was this bad... It scares me to think about how this generation is going to be leading the world in a few years...

Oh, you bet I can.

And yes, they did.

Again these older generations that you are talking about are the ones that tried to ban comic books, because they were "too violent." Or they tried to ban women working because "they would distract the men too much." The way women dressed in the 20's was treated as the coming of the end of the world via God's judgment due to their "promiscuity." And, on the other side, had children working in factories because they could fit between moving machinery better than adults could.

There were certainly bad ideas and customs in the past, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that we have never

I teach on a college campus. It's not nearly as homogenized as you are portraying.

Depends on which college you're teaching at. Some aren't nearly as bad as others.

Anyone who thinks that the current situation is anything new has no real knowledge of history or sociology. This is an age-old conflict that has existed since the beginning of time. You will always have people going "Well back in MY day, things were better..." with the younger generations replying with "Yeah, back when half the kids were dying off from Polio. Good thing we fixed that, huh?"

The exact same thing is going to happen with the next generation. And the next. And the next. Etc.

Again, I've can't think of a generation that has acted like this one. I'm not saying that the older generation didn't have messed up ideas or that they were perfect angels, I'm just saying that I can't think of a time that we've seen a generation that has acted like this one. The political correctness and sensitivity is over-the-top.

Don't split up my posts like that. It's a pain in the ass to respond.

It's no worse now than it never was, and thinking that it is just shows an ignorance of history. Every single generation ever has conflicted with the ones preceding it. And as far as political correctness is concerned is concerned, that's nothing new either. Again, these older generations you keep revering are the ones that felt that men would be too easily distracted by women working with them, or that children would be corrupted by comic books, or that Elvis pelvic thrusting would bring about an age of decadence and licentiousness that would corrupt the moral fiber of our youth. Censorship, arbitrarily deciding what is socially acceptable behavior, feeling that certain people "just can't handle things," and this idea that a certain group "just isn't as responsible as we were back in the day," is a phenomenon that has literally always existed. Now is no different.

[DoomieDoomie911]

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise" - Socrates

Socrates lived hundreds of years before Jesus.

I didn't say that we haven't seen that before. I understand exactly what you're saying, and I agree with you. I just said that we haven't seen the sensitivity and over-the-top political correctness in any past generation that I can think of.

[DoomieDoomie911]

Don't split up my posts like that. It's a pain in the ass to respond.

It's no worse now than it never was, and thinking that it is just shows an ignorance of history. Every single generation ever has conflicted with the ones preceding it. And as far as political correctness is concerned is concerned, that's nothing new either. Again, these older generations you keep revering are the ones that felt that men would be too easily distracted by women working with them, or that children would be corrupted by comic books, or that Elvis pelvic thrusting would bring about an age of decadence and licentiousness that would corrupt the moral fiber of our youth. Censorship, arbitrarily deciding what is socially acceptable behavior, feeling that certain people "just can't handle things," and this idea that a certain group "just isn't as responsible as we were back in the day," is a phenomenon that has literally always existed. Now is no different.

Sorry.

Again, I'm not standing up for the ridiculous ideas that older generations had. I don't know why you think I am. I'm just saying that the over-the-top political correctness is something new. The only time in modern history that can be compared to this situation is the Vietnam protest movement in the 1960's, but even that wasn't quite as bad as far as limiting free speech.

(Sorry for the double post...)

[rereboy]

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise" - Socrates

Socrates lived hundreds of years before Jesus.

I didn't say that we haven't seen that before. I said that we haven't seen the sensitivity and over-the-top political correctness in any past generation that i can think of.

My post demonstrates what has already been told to you. The older generations have always claimed that the new are worse than they were due to various reasons and vice versa. And they all thought they were right. Socrates was no exception and he was a very smart man.

[Kamiccolo9]

Sorry.

Again, I'm not standing up for the ridiculous ideas that older generations had. I don't know why you think I am. I'm just saying that the over-the-top political correctness is something new. Like I said, many of them literally think that they have the "right to not be offended".

Except it is quite literally nothing new.

"Political Correctness" is not a static term. It used to be politically correct to assume that women were a distraction in the workplace. The people who advocated for this were being politically correct. As of today, that idea is not politically correct.

It used to be politically correct to believe that children were too sensitive to be exposed to fictional violence. The American comic book industry was in serious danger of being shut down due to pressure from "concerned parents" who felt that their children were being exposed to stories that would turn them into criminals, and they ended up causing the creation of a body that censored comic books. If that isn't a prime example of "over the top political correctness," than what is?

The whole "right to not be offended" thing is a vast oversimplification of the issue. You can do better than that.

[VegettoEX]

Please please please don't turn this into a constant back-and-forth of dismissive "Nuh uh / yeah huh / no way / yeah way". Kinda proves something.

[Kamiccolo9]

Please please please don't turn this into a constant back-and-forth of dismissive "Nuh uh / yeah huh / no way / yeah way". Kinda proves something.

Well, I'd say it proves the point made in the OP. In this age of social media, it has become far easier to present an entire argument quickly. A natural continuation of that is that people run out of things to say more quickly, as the arguments have already been presented. This leads to more back and forths of "Uh-huh, Nuh-uh," that you wouldn't have seen before, when the main way of criticising with anonymity was to send a letter. Anonymous discourse that would have taken weeks in the past is now possible in minutes, which accelerates the entire process of a debate or discussion devolving into a useless back-and-forth.

And then we got Twitter, which is literally a vessel for "uh-huh/nuh-uh" discussion, but I won't get into that

[DoomieDoomie911]

Sorry.

Again, I'm not standing up for the ridiculous ideas that older generations had. I don't know why you think I am. I'm just saying that the over-the-top political correctness is something new. Like I said, many of them literally think that they have the "right to not be offended".

Except it is quite literally nothing new.

"Political Correctness" is not a static term. It used to be politically correct to assume that women were a distraction in the workplace. The people who advocated for this were being politically correct. As of today, that idea is not politically correct.

It used to be politically correct to believe that children were too sensitive to be exposed to fictional violence. The American comic book industry was in serious danger of being shut down due to pressure from "concerned parents" who felt that their children were being exposed to stories that would turn them into criminals, and they ended up causing the creation of a body that censored comic books. If that isn't a prime example of "over the top political correctness," than what is?

The whole "right to not be offended" thing is a vast oversimplification of the issue. You can do better than that.

When has there been a time where college students would literally sign their rights away?

This is my last post. I really don't feel like arguing today...

[ekrolo2]

And then we got Twitter, which is literally a vessel for "uh-huh/nuh-uh" discussion, but I won't get into that

Oh if only that was the worst that happens on places like Twitter or Tumblr.... If there are any places on the Internet that perfectly capture the worst of the Internet, its those two.

[Kamiccolo9]

When has there been a time where college students would literally sign their rights away?

Every few years some new Utopian society group comes along wanting to create a communal lifestyle. This process involves giving up your individual rights to take advantage of the benefits of communal living. The movement you referenced in your post is an extension of that. It's not representative of the generation as a whole. As for how far back the idea goes, well, the Shakers are the earliest group I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there were earlier ones, though. And there have been countless such groups since then.

History is a cycle. Very, very rarely is there something new that hasn't already been done by every preceding generation. You just have to look.

[Analytical Delusion]

Yes, but you can't deny that Millennials have traits that are a lot worse than older generations. I mean, they LITERALLY believe that they have the "right to not be offended". Just look at most college campuses nowadays; they don't think they have any authority. Older generations never had this problem. I mean, I guess you could say that the Vietnam protest movement in the 1960's was a bit similar, but I don't even know if that was this bad... It scares me to think about how this generation is going to be leading the world in a few years...

People should indeed have that right (please note, there's a difference between the right not to be offended, and the right not to be criticized; groups which are offended are and should be free to determine what offends them, and it is incumbent on us as a society to accommodate them). Fortunately, as far as I can tell, this is increasingly becoming the prevailing belief, so it's fortunate to see progress from where we stood a decade or two ago. Growing up, seemed as if we as a people were far less tolerant of others in the 80s and early 90s, at the time

[Gaffer Tape]

People should indeed have that right (please note, there's a difference between the right not to be offended, and the right not to be criticized; groups which are offended are and should be free to determine what offends them, and it is incumbent on us as a society to accommodate them). Fortunately, as far as I can tell, this is increasingly becoming the prevailing belief, so it's fortunate to see progress from where we stood a decade or two ago. Growing up, seemed as if we as a people were far less tolerant of others in the 80s and early 90s, at the time

There is a huge difference between actively not tolerating other people and not being allowed to offend. Because the fact of the matter is, everybody is offended by something. Every single person has something that is going to set them off, and it's ridiculous to think that we can or should create a Teflon-coated environment that protects everyone from opinions. Should we ensure that all people are protected equally under the law, and make sure that those who would try to discriminate or damage or destroy people are kept from doing so? Of course. To use an example, there is a stark difference between letting the KKK lynch people because they don't like the color of their skin and simply letting the KKK exist. One is a reality that could and does, very understandably, offend certain people. The other is an actual DANGER to certain people. But we can't police how people think, and we don't (and shouldn't) tell people how they can peaceably assemble. That's the consequence of living in a free society: you might just be confronted by ideas you find not only counter to yours but downright despicable as far as you're concerned. And it's easy to dismiss such things when you're talking about a hateful group that nobody likes, but then what happens when it's your opinion that people don't like?

[Analytical Delusion]

People should indeed have that right (please note, there's a difference between the right not to be offended, and the right not to be criticized; groups which are offended are and should be free to determine what offends them, and it is incumbent on us as a society to accommodate them). Fortunately, as far as I can tell, this is increasingly becoming the prevailing belief, so it's fortunate to see progress from where we stood a decade or two ago. Growing up, seemed as if we as a people were far less tolerant of others in the 80s and early 90s, at the time

There is a huge difference between actively not tolerating other people and not being allowed to offend. Because the fact of the matter is, everybody is offended by something. Every single person has something that is going to set them off, and it's ridiculous to think that we can or should create a Teflon-coated environment that protects everyone from opinions. Should we ensure that all people are protected equally under the law, and make sure that those who would try to discriminate or damage or destroy people are kept from doing so? Of course. To use an example, there is a stark difference between letting the KKK lynch people because they don't like the color of their skin and simply letting the KKK exist. One is a reality that could and does, very understandably, offend certain people. The other is an actual DANGER to certain people. But we can't police how people think, and we don't (and shouldn't) tell people how they can peaceably assemble. That's the consequence of living in a free society: you might just be confronted by ideas you find not only counter to yours but downright despicable as far as you're concerned. And it's easy to dismiss such things when you're talking about a hateful group that nobody likes, but then what happens when it's your opinion that people don't like?

We can't control how *everyone* thinks (since unfortunately not everybody is malleable), but we can educate people properly so that those in the future aren't inclined to think a certain way. I certainly welcome criticism, and if I learn that certain behaviors offend others, I'm more than happy to adjust how I speak/act/think (and have in the past). I'm sure we've all been part of the problem at times. Which is why it's important to identify our shortcomings and correct them.

Anyhow to your larger point, ideally we need to accommodate everybody, but those offensive behaviors which are most widespread need to be corrected first. Stamp those out, and move down the chain based on urgency (in terms of frequency and degree of offensiveness). The backlash against political correctness and decorum needs to end.