Funi names: a review (update: Namek)

[ABED]

I know this is a shallow reason for keeping Kami untranslated, but I'm partial to the joke where Goku calls Piccolo "Kamicollo". I think even if you keep the name, you can still imply that it's a title not a name.

[precita]

Its funny cause in Dragonball they kept that line where Yajirobe goes, "What, Kami doesn't really exist" when Goku tells him about Kami.

Yajirobe's supposed to be surprised when Goku says God exists, but that's not carried over to the dub, but Yajirobe still has the surprised expression when he hears Kami's name.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Kami should've been called God just for the unintentional hilarity. It's not even like he's a God with another name like Thor or Odin or Zeus, he's just God and for some reason, I find this funny and I imagine it would be funnier still with everyone referring to him simply as God with a complete straight face.

yeah. By removing all reference to divinity (making god into the guardian of earth and the lord of worlds into King Kai) you lose the subtle joke throughout the series that the gods and celestial rulers of this universe are kind of crap and not actually any more virtuous or wise than average joes

[Puto]

I know this is a shallow reason for keeping Kami untranslated, but I'm partial to the joke where Goku calls Piccolo "Kamicollo". I think even if you keep the name, you can still imply that it's a title not a name.

It's not particularly hard to adapt that to something like "Godccolo" or "Piccogod" or whatever.

[Kamiccolo9]

I know this is a shallow reason for keeping Kami untranslated, but I'm partial to the joke where Goku calls Piccolo "Kamicollo". I think even if you keep the name, you can still imply that it's a title not a name.

It's not particularly hard to adapt that to something like "Godccolo" or "Piccogod" or whatever.

It just doesn't have the same ring to it. And I'd need a new name.

[Mewzard]

Why? What is inherently different about the two? Why will people accept Kami, a Japanese word, but not nakama, another Japanese word? Why will they accept karate and not Tenshinhan? What's going to take them out of the show? Why would they be fine with Kaio-ken, but Genki Dama will take them out of the show? Because it really just sounds like, "I'll accept what I'm used to. If I'm not used to it, then it's just too darn Japanese."

To be fair in Karate's case, it's a Japanese Loanword, like Karaoke, Haiku, or Umami (the Fifth taste, that of savory foods, named in Japan like a hundred years ago). I can forgive loanwords because they've been made a part of English in the grand scheme of things.

But yeah, I see no reason we couldn't have God, Tenshinhan, the Fist of the World King, etc. I'd love more proper translations and correctly used names in Dragon Ball (and some pronunciation fixes), but given character names have been trademarked and used in lots of merchandise, I doubt they'd change it at this point.

It's kinda like with Ninja Turtles. It's supposed to be Michelangelo, not Michaelangelo, yet most incarnations call him that (or Mikey). The original comic series eventually fixed it though, I believe (though it's relatively minor compared to the bigger media stuff at this point).

[Gyt Kaliba]

I've never actually heard this 'umami' word before, huh. I would agree though that in general, loan word situations would be fine, unless they just started saying the word for absolutely every instance of it in the series or something - like if we got 'sayonara' used for every instance of good bye in the dub, or something.

It's kinda like with Ninja Turtles. It's supposed to be Michelangelo, not Michaelangelo, yet most incarnations call him that (or Mikey). The original comic series eventually fixed it though, I believe (though it's relatively minor compared to the bigger media stuff at this point).

Yeah, they fixed it at some point or another, and even in the newest material, it's spelled the proper way - pronounciation might still sound a little more like 'Michaelangelo' in some cases though. I'm fine with the nicknames they give each other though (Leo, Mikey, Donnie, Raph), considering the brotherly nature at the heart of it all.

[Mewzard]

I've never actually heard this 'umami' word before, huh. I would agree though that in general, loan word situations would be fine, unless they just started saying the word for absolutely every instance of it in the series or something - like if we got 'sayonara' used for every instance of good bye in the dub, or something.

Yeah, they fixed it at some point or another, and even in the newest material, it's spelled the proper way - pronounciation might still sound a little more like 'Michaelangelo' in some cases though. I'm fine with the nicknames they give each other though (Leo, Mikey, Donnie, Raph), considering the brotherly nature at the heart of it all.

It's newer to people's use in English than Japan, but yeah, I picked it up from Food Wars (Shokugeki no Souma). But yeah, in the case of Sayonara, that's best saved for an occasional way to say good bye. Given how many ways you can say goodbye in English, using several in different situations can be fun.

You know, they could always call him Mickey, that keeps the same feeling as Mikey for Michaelangelo (of course, nicknames don't have to make 100% sense, so Mikey could be fine either way).

I've often been one in favor of translating most any given element of a series (minus character names, though with some exceptions for puns if either important to the character, or if they're monsters of the week and will die anyways within an episode or so).

[ABED]

yeah. By removing all reference to divinity (making god into the guardian of earth and the lord of worlds into King Kai) you lose the subtle joke throughout the series that the gods and celestial rulers of this universe are kind of crap and not actually any more virtuous or wise than average joes

Understanding that, I wonder why so many here make a big deal about the names like Kami Kaio-sama and their divinity when they aren't really all that godly or divine.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

yeah. By removing all reference to divinity (making god into the guardian of earth and the lord of worlds into King Kai) you lose the subtle joke throughout the series that the gods and celestial rulers of this universe are kind of crap and not actually any more virtuous or wise than average joes

Understanding that, I wonder why so many here make a big deal about the names like Kami Kaio-sama and their divinity when they aren't really all that godly or divine.

I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about why it matters that their titles were changed, it's because they're called what they're called and people shouldn't make up wrong names like "guardian of earth"

[ABED]

I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about why it matters that their titles were changed, it's because they're called what they're called and people shouldn't make up wrong names like "guardian of earth"

Agreed that they shouldn't be changed, though some of them are more half(assed) translated. I was saying that some put up such a fuss that the names shouldn't be changed because the dub name doesn't convey the aforementioned divinity (e.g. God) but given that Kaio isn't the most dignified character and doesn't do anything that his title might imply, I feel like the argument isn't a very good one.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I'm not sure what you mean. If you're talking about why it matters that their titles were changed, it's because they're called what they're called and people shouldn't make up wrong names like "guardian of earth"

Agreed that they shouldn't be changed, though some of them are more half(assed) translated. I was saying that some put up such a fuss that the names shouldn't be changed because the dub name doesn't convey the aforementioned divinity (e.g. God) but given that Kaio isn't the most dignified character and doesn't do anything that his title might imply, I feel like the argument isn't a very good one.

But that's his name_(title). His name is this --> 界王. Kai-Ou. There is no need for any other argument for why his name should not be given as "King Kai"

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

I'm so happy that the FUNi dub of One Piece didn't use straight up untranslated terminology just to cater to the Kaizoku Fansubs crowd. The amount of people that say Shichibukai, Yonko and Nakama instead of Warlord, Emperor and Friend is insane.

This. A proper translation into English shouldn't be throwing around random Japanese words like that just to seem cool and exotic.

Haki was the only one they kept and Viz didn't use a translation for it either so it's probably something where it has a translation but in the case of the international version, Haki needs to be kept as a mandate by Oda, Shueisha and Toei and to be honest I'm fine with that being the only one because willpower would have sounded odd.

[Ajay]

Haki was the only one they kept and Viz didn't use a translation for it either so it's probably something where it has a translation but in the case of the international version, Haki needs to be kept as a mandate by Oda, Shueisha and Toei and to be honest I'm fine with that being the only one because willpower would have sounded odd.

I know the reason that a certain fansub group opted to switch to leaving it untranslated. They began using "willpower" to begin with, but as the word began to be used so much, and in conjunction with other terms too, it essentially brought itself onto the same level as something like "ki" -- in that it has its own meaning within the context of the world, despite being a regular word in the Japanese language.

[Danfun64]

It's not particularly hard to adapt that to something like "Godccolo" or "Piccogod" or whatever.

Piccolod?

[jcogginsa]

Why? What is inherently different about the two? Why will people accept Kami, a Japanese word, but not nakama, another Japanese word? Why will they accept karate and not Tenshinhan? What's going to take them out of the show? Why would they be fine with Kaio-ken, but Genki Dama will take them out of the show? Because it really just sounds like, "I'll accept what I'm used to. If I'm not used to it, then it's just too darn Japanese."

God is controversial, Friend is not.

Not saying I agree with every change, but this is one I don't mind.

[Gaffer Tape]

Thank you, but that's not at all what I was saying. In fact, it was the opposite. I'm talking about the Japanese words Kami and Nakama, in reference to what I consider the inherent hypocrisy of accepting certain Japanese words but not others based solely on what the fan is or is not used to. It has nothing to do with the so-called controversy of the English words God and Friend.

[jcogginsa]

Thank you, but that's not at all what I was saying. In fact, it was the opposite. I'm talking about the Japanese words Kami and Nakama, not the English words God and Friend.

In this case, you can't really separate the two

They couldn't use God, but they could use friend. Thus, they have an incentive to use Kami, but not an incentive to use Nakama.

At the time the dub was being made, using the name God just wasn't gonna happen. If their gonna have to change the name either way, Kami works just as well as any other name. If Kami weren't an option, I'd have likely called him "The Spirit of The Earth", shortening it to Spirit frequently.

[Gaffer Tape]

Yes, yes I can separate the two, because I'm not saying anything about those words specifically. They just happened to be the words that were in play when this point came across. The words are completely irrelevant in regards to what I am talking about. Would it help if I switched them out for two other words, even though I feel I already added other such examples to my previous posts?

Let me try this again: In the world of the dub, Kaio-ken is perfectly acceptable, even though it's entirely Japanese, and its link to anything that would make it even remotely understandable to an American audience has been severed or distorted. However, try to tell a dub fan that there's an attack called the Genki Dama, and, no, no, man, that's too Japanesey. It would totally throw viewers and would have kept it from being as popular because American viewers just can't handle that kind of gratuitous Japanese. They wouldn't understand what the attack really is. In terms of what Japanese is okay and what is too weeaboo all comes down to what those fans are used to seeing. There is no actual justification for it. That's the point I've been talking about, and I hope it is now clear that it has nothing to do with whether or not the English word God is acceptable in a cartoon.

[jcogginsa]

I never actually seen someone do something like that. Most people I know who use the English terms do so because that's what they grew up with. They never criticize the sub terms for being too Japanese.