Listen to the fans or not

[jjgp1112]

Pandering to every fan's demands almost always leads to a horrendous crash and burn.

[Ajay]

No, artists shouldn't put their heads in the sand, but if you truly believe in what you've created and think there's an audience or will eventually be, why change your story to suit them if for instance it hurts the story? This is especially important when you are showing the audience something new. Games strike me as different because of the inherent nature of games being interactive.

Oh, I definitely agree. That's why I made a point to reiterate that the final say has to come from the author. It's definitely right to take risks and go against the norm or expectations, otherwise you'll never develop or surprise your audience. My point about ignoring fans was more of a long-term thing. If you're three seasons into a TV show and the ratings are tanking, with audience members disliking the direction you're going in, then maybe it's best to reconsider your approach to an extent. I'm vehemently against focus-group manufactured media, but if there's an overwhelming line of criticism coming at you, it might be worth considering. If you can't do that without compromising your story or artistic integrity, well you might have to call it a loss and move on to another idea.

[ABED]

No, artists shouldn't put their heads in the sand, but if you truly believe in what you've created and think there's an audience or will eventually be, why change your story to suit them if for instance it hurts the story? This is especially important when you are showing the audience something new. Games strike me as different because of the inherent nature of games being interactive.

Oh, I definitely agree. That's why I made a point to reiterate that the final say has to come from the author. It's definitely right to take risks and go against the norm or expectations, otherwise you'll never develop or surprise your audience. My point about ignoring fans was more of a long-term thing. If you're three seasons into a TV show and the ratings are tanking, with audience members disliking the direction you're going in, then maybe it's best to reconsider your approach to an extent. I'm vehemently against focus-group manufactured media, but if there's an overwhelming line of criticism coming at you, it might be worth considering. If you can't do that without compromising your story or artistic integrity, well you might have to call it a loss and move on to another idea.

Fair point, that I am in agreement with. I think I've said similar things, but you phrased it better.

[Lord Beerus]

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." - Bill Cosby

[omaro34]

Well, Toriyama has listened to the fans before. He originally wanted Piccolo to go Majin in the Buu saga, but due to popular opinion and the potential outcry from fans, he made Vegeta Majin. I could be wrong on this, but this is a rumour that's been out there for YEARS now, to the point that many figures in the community with loads of credibility have stated it in the past.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, Toriyama has listened to the fans before. He originally wanted Piccolo to go Majin in the Buu saga, but due to popular opinion and the potential outcry from fans, he made Vegeta Majin. I could be wrong on this, but this is a rumour that's been out there for YEARS now, to the point that many figures in the community with loads of credibility have stated it in the past.

Uhhhh....I'm almost positive that this was not a thing. Do you have any evidence of it?

[Lunatic Fringe]

Well, Toriyama has listened to the fans before. He originally wanted Piccolo to go Majin in the Buu saga, but due to popular opinion and the potential outcry from fans, he made Vegeta Majin. I could be wrong on this, but this is a rumour that's been out there for YEARS now, to the point that many figures in the community with loads of credibility have stated it in the past.

Uhhhh....I'm almost positive that this was not a thing. Do you have any evidence of it?

I've heard it before. Just add it to the list of popular DB rumors that aren't true.

[omaro34]

Well, Toriyama has listened to the fans before. He originally wanted Piccolo to go Majin in the Buu saga, but due to popular opinion and the potential outcry from fans, he made Vegeta Majin. I could be wrong on this, but this is a rumour that's been out there for YEARS now, to the point that many figures in the community with loads of credibility have stated it in the past.

Uhhhh....I'm almost positive that this was not a thing. Do you have any evidence of it?

I've heard it before. Just add it to the list of popular DB rumors that aren't true.

Thanks for clarifying that it was indeed a false rumor. But it was a rumor nonetheless that had Piccolo fans upset for a long time.

[PsionicWarrior]

]Those constructive criticisms are still subjective opinions and you still run into the issue of those constructive criticisms being diverse and contradictory just through the sheer number of fans.

Not all opinions are subjective, for instance if I tell you Gohan needs the rage factor it is an objective statement, if suddenly things go differently, surely some reactions would be heard. You keep saying multiple and opposite point of views is a bad thing, but it really isn't, when a whole community shouts together it means they really fuck up, when people argue their opinions, it is because there is some substance to argue about, I'd even say pluralism is indispensable to see things less biased possible.

Fans do have a right to say whatever they want, but they don't have a right to demand to be listened to just because they patronized something. And I know that's confusing. I know what I want to say in essence but I'm not sure exactly how to put it in writing.

Fans are not demanding, they are expecting, this is what I think confuses you. This franchise isn't exactly from yesterday.

I know how business works. What have I said that makes you think I don't understand feedback isn't valuable?

My apologies if I am mistaken but I was under the impression you intend to dismiss people's opinions, considering them "irrelevant" were your words I think.

[Kamiccolo9]

Fans are not demanding, they are expecting, this is what I think confuses you. This franchise isn't exactly from yesterday.

This thread literally has people saying, verbatim, that "We demand......"

[VegettoEX]

But it was a rumor nonetheless that had Piccolo fans upset for a long time.

It wasn't a "long time". It was only in the last few years that a random troll of a fan added that to the DB Wikia. I don't know why or how that one had more staying power in folks' minds compared to some of the other total nonsense listed on the site, but there ya' go!

[ABED]

I fail to see how your example is an objective opinion or if that is even possible.

You keep saying multiple and opposite point of views is a bad thing, but it really isn't, when a whole community shouts together it means they really fuck up, when people argue their opinions, it is because there is some substance to argue about, I'd even say pluralism is indispensable to see things less biased possible.

I never said anything of the sort. I said that there are a lot of fans and they all don't share the same opinion. And when people argue there opinions it's because people have different opinions and will argue over just about anything. And one bad episode isn't a fuck up. It's a bump in the road.

My apologies if I am mistaken but I was under the impression you intend to dismiss people's opinions, considering them "irrelevant" were your words I think.

It depends on whose feedback you are taking and I standby my statement that specific feedback from fans is generally a bad idea.

Expecting, demanding, doesn't matter. You don't write to satisfy either fan demands or expectations. Writers should write good and compelling stories, and the best ones often go in a different direction than what the fans expect in order to surprise them.

[PsionicWarrior]

I fail to see how your example is an objective opinion or if that is even possible.

Because it's a fact?

[ABED]

I fail to see how your example is an objective opinion or if that is even possible.

Because it's a fact?

How is it a fact and opinion that Gohan needs the rage factor?

[PsionicWarrior]

Because -feel free to correct me if I'm wrong- it's always been like this? Actually is more of a fact than an opinion, but is a fact than can backup an opinion. We could also take Vegeta's pride as another example. This is not like saying "I prefer blue vs purple hair"

[omaro34]

But it was a rumor nonetheless that had Piccolo fans upset for a long time.

It wasn't a "long time". It was only in the last few years that a random troll of a fan added that to the DB Wikia. I don't know why or how that one had more staying power in folks' minds compared to some of the other total nonsense listed on the site, but there ya' go!

Well, one reason why it could have stayed in the minds of people compared to other nonsense out there is because people could connect this Majin Piccolo rumor to another rumor that was about Toriyama once stating that Piccolo was his favorite character (which could be false too).

[sintzu]

Another rumor that was about Toriyama once stating that Piccolo was his favorite character (which could be false too).

He said that in an official interview.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

For the games yes, got the anime no.
For the games its objective considering we are the ones playing them, though they should pay attention to the technical fans of gameplay and accuracy; more so over the casuals that just ask for bigger roster lists.

For the anime, absolutely not. Most fanfic for this series is usually terrible Evil Goku, SSJ5 Broly or SS3 "Teen" Gohan or some nonsense. Even though I wish Toei had an advisor for draft-checks; I doubt Toei would know the difference between fans who actually know the series in consistency, from the majority of fanboys that just character wank.

[sintzu]

For the anime, absolutely not. Most fanfic for this series is usually terrible Evil Goku, SSJ5 Broly or SS3 "Teen" Gohan or some nonsense. Even though I wish Toei had an advisor for draft-checks; I doubt Toei would know the difference between fans who actually know the series in consistency, from the majority of fanboys that just character wank.

What about in terms of the production ? like taking longer due to fans complaining about quality or making slight changes to the story to include a character fans have been asking for without changing the main plot ?

[ABED]

For the anime, absolutely not. Most fanfic for this series is usually terrible Evil Goku, SSJ5 Broly or SS3 "Teen" Gohan or some nonsense. Even though I wish Toei had an advisor for draft-checks; I doubt Toei would know the difference between fans who actually know the series in consistency, from the majority of fanboys that just character wank.

What about in terms of the production ? like taking longer due to fans complaining about quality or making slight changes to the story to include a character fans have been asking for without changing the main plot ?

Which fans and how do they know what the main plot will be? If the character won't change the main plot, why add him?

I wish they wouldn't do 50 or so episodes a year, but that seems to be their business model.