DBZ vs DBS - Animation [Comparing Objectively]

[z_cherub]

Definitely. The way characters are drawn depends very heavily on the animation supervisor behind the episode or key animator behind a particular scene.

For example, Hakamada tends to draw characters with gigantic pupils.

I'm probably not articulating this very well, but I guess my overall point is that Super at it's best shows a general leaning towards the bigger pupils/wider eyes/chibby-ish look as compared to DBZ at its best.

[nite_jay]

I'm probably not articulating this very well, but I guess my overall point is that Super at it's best shows a general leaning towards the bigger pupils/wider eyes/chibby-ish look as compared to DBZ at its best.

Plenty of DBZ animators drew characters with the big pupils and big head/ neck though.
https://goo.gl/images/TTkKP5
https://goo.gl/images/mJwLls

[z_cherub]

I'm probably not articulating this very well, but I guess my overall point is that Super at it's best shows a general leaning towards the bigger pupils/wider eyes/chibby-ish look as compared to DBZ at its best.

Plenty of DBZ animators drew characters with the big pupils and big head/ neck though.
https://goo.gl/images/TTkKP5
https://goo.gl/images/mJwLls

Very true, but again, the bottom angle of the eye is at more of an incline (following the eyebrow) in those, that's often not the case in Super which leads to an overall "bigger" looking eye.

I didn't specify that again, but I'm also trying not to reiterate every single one of my points in each follow up post.

Again, crude sketch to illustrate:

http://imgur.com/ChZNH0O

[z_cherub]

I'm probably not articulating this very well, but I guess my overall point is that Super at it's best shows a general leaning towards the bigger pupils/wider eyes/chibby-ish look as compared to DBZ at its best.

Plenty of DBZ animators drew characters with the big pupils and big head/ neck though.
https://goo.gl/images/TTkKP5
https://goo.gl/images/mJwLls

Very true, but again, the bottom angle of the eye is at more of an incline (following the eyebrow) in those, that's often not the case in Super which leads to an overall "bigger" looking eye.

I didn't specify that again, but I'm also trying not to reiterate every single one of my points in each follow up post.

Again, crude sketch to illustrate:

http://imgur.com/ChZNH0O

...also, does this site not like to imbed imgur links?

[nite_jay]

Plenty of DBZ animators drew characters with the big pupils and big head/ neck though.
https://goo.gl/images/TTkKP5
https://goo.gl/images/mJwLls

Very true, but again, the bottom angle of the eye is at more of an incline (following the eyebrow) in those, that's often not the case in Super which leads to an overall "bigger" looking eye.

I didn't specify that again, but I'm also trying not to reiterate every single one of my points in each follow up post.

Again, crude sketch to illustrate:

http://imgur.com/ChZNH0O

...also, does this site not like to imbed imgur links?

I dunno for sure but they don't embed for me either.

[Ajay]

You can embed just fine. You need to add a file extension to it. .jpg, for example, otherwise it doesn't register an image url.

Naoki Tate's about the only animator on Super who draws eyes like they used to:

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

[z_cherub]

You can embed just fine. You need to add a file extension to it. .jpg, for example, otherwise it doesn't register an image url.

Naoki Tate's about the only animator on Super who draws eyes like they used to:

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

Yes - exactly my point with the eyes (although I'm not a huge fan of the rest of his style).

Thanks for the image tip, too

[Yomi]

Movie version

Movie version

It's a tad unfair to show those, those are inbetweens, there are Key frames, breakdown frames, and inbetween frames.
They are 99% of the time, drawn by amateurs or trainees, to show them the ropes. that's why people get defensive, when
they show Super's inbetween frames as if that means anything.

[ChronoTwigger]

[SaiyanGod117]

I've been rewatching DBZ recently and it looks way better than Super by miles there is no comparison.

[Shuby]

I've been rewatching DBZ recently and it looks way better than Super by miles there is no comparison.

Even gt does. But i have a question for those who know what's going on behind the scenes , Can they still fix the production of Super?

[Ajay]

i have a question for those who know what's going on behind the scenes , Can they still fix the production of Super?

We don't know, but at the moment most 'fixes' are more of a, "How can we make this episode not look like shit?", rather than an outright way of alleviating the series' significant issues.

We've got multiple supervisors per episode -- sometimes with multiple assistants -- to ensure that corrections to poorer key animator's work can be finished in time for airing. You can see this most clearly in the latest episode (#50) which featured a huge number of staff and a lot of obvious redraws.

That said, there are still some outright fixes and better scheduling going on, at the very least. For example, they're bringing in more supervisors to the series to allow for longer rotation times between each episodes. These go a long way in helping the schedule. The most recent recurring addition is Yoichi Onishi who handled a half of #49 with Seizo Toma.

Unfortunately, it's not quite enough to fix Super. Regular supervisors who should be working on future episodes are popping up to do key animation or assistant work on episodes by other supervisors. Episode 50 has Shimanuki and Tate both working on it, when they've got their own work to be busy with! It's a very clear sign that things are still not working as they should be. An even clearer sign is that talents like Kenji Kuroyanagi can pop up in an episode and deliver nothing noteworthy.

Everything feels very patchwork right now. Key animators still can't deliver to the standard they're known for, but episodes on the whole are looking much more polished than before. I suppose we'll see how long this lasts before the seams split again.

[Shuby]

Unfortunately, it's not quite enough to fix Super. Regular supervisors who should be working on future episodes are popping up to do key animation or assistant work on episodes by other supervisors. Episode 50 has Shimanuki and Tate both working on it, when they've got their own work to be busy with! It's a very clear sign that things are still not working as they should be. An even clearer sign is that talents like Kenji Kuroyanagi can pop up in an episode and deliver nothing noteworthy.

Everything feels very patchwork right now. Key animators still can't deliver to the standard they're known for, but episodes on the whole are looking much more polished than before. I suppose we'll see how long this lasts before the seams split again.[/quote]

Thanks for the information. That's really unfortunate one would think they should release old episodes to give animators more time , but i guess even that would not work otherwise they would have done so. I don't know how many fights will take place in this arc , i mean i'm okay with slice of life eps looking ok-ish. People will most likely remember the interactions between characters but let's say the next arc is going to be the all universe tournament. You would imagine that it's mostly going to be about fighting. Really looking forward to how they will handle all of that!

[JulieYBM]

They need to try and reduce the number of necessary cuts needed per episode. Increasing the length of the episode recaps will help in that regard. Introducing BANK animation will also help. From there they should try to get Yashima Yoshitaka to solo key animate episodes by himself so as to not waste animators on his episodes. From there they need to hire another animator like Yashima who can solo key animate by himself, like Aoyama Mitsuru, Yokoyama Kenji or Deguchi Toshio. That would make planning a lot easier.

Of course, the best solution at this point would be taking a six or nine month hiatus, but that probably won't happen...

[ChronoTwigger]

... but there's any need for fixes and a change in style?
My partner child today purchased a Beerus figure...

Nah, games and toys are enough. Xenoverse and Fusions are more interesting so far, so why bother, from a commercial side? You can always air Z again.

[MrWalnut4]

You can embed just fine. You need to add a file extension to it. .jpg, for example, otherwise it doesn't register an image url.

Naoki Tate's about the only animator on Super who draws eyes like they used to:

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

I don't understand why more animators don't draw the eyes like this anymore. The other difference is the way the cheek lines are drawn is much more haphazard than it used to be and compared to Tate's style. While they used to follow closely after one another in a slight arc around the cheek, they now are just kind of thrown on with no regard to the shape of the faces. Adding that small amount of detail in conjunction with the older eye style makes stills that much more expressive than the current designs.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Sonicjamareiz]

[Mazingerdestro]

I don't think comparing movies with the anime is fair.
Movies tend to have bigger budget and more people working on them.
However, I have to agree that movie 6 looks awful. Even for anime standards, it feels like a mediocre animation day for z.
Nothing special, the battle were pretty average, the character designs were off-model almost 100% making episode 5 from Super looking like a masterpiece in the blu-ray edition.

For me Z's best movies in terms of animation, models, and story are 12 and 13 with 13 winning because of the city battle.
However, if we compare Super movies or after dbz movie like battle of gods and, f with 13 then yeah.....Even 13 can be easily challenged.

I never understood why scheduling is an issue with a show that NOBODY asked Toei to rush it.
Ok we had 2 bad arcs with Beerus and Frieza what should we do? A hiatus for 2 months maybe? Why is Toei or the people, who fund Super against seasons?
Have a second season airing after Golden Frieza delay. Give animators time. It's not like fast=cheaper. They pay the same amount but they don't give back something good.

[Ajay]

I never understood why scheduling is an issue with a show that NOBODY asked Toei to rush it.

There are more rights holders than just Toei. We know Bandai were after an anime back in 2009, but Toriyama didn't want to get involved, so they produced Kai instead.

The show's a marketing tool as it's always been. If Toei were under pressure from Shueisha or Bandai to capitalise on the success of the previous films, then what can they do?

"Sorry, no can do! You'll have to wait!" -- Look at the sales figures since Super started airing. They're higher than they've been for years. The show's doing exactly what it was created to do.

Unfortunately, as long as it keeps selling, it doesn't really matter how good the series is visually. If it sells, it sells. There's no incentive to really change (although they are trying).

[Mazingerdestro]

I never understood why scheduling is an issue with a show that NOBODY asked Toei to rush it.

There are more rights holders than just Toei. We know Bandai were after an anime back in 2009, but Toriyama didn't want to get involved, so they produced Kai instead.

The show's a marketing tool as it's always been. If Toei were under pressure from Shueisha or Bandai to capitalise on the success of the previous films, then what can they do?

"Sorry, no can do! You'll have to wait!" -- Look at the sales figures since Super started airing. They're higher than they've been for years. The show's doing exactly what it was created to do.

Unfortunately, as long as it keeps selling, it doesn't really matter how good the series is visually. If it sells, it sells. There's no incentive to really change (although they are trying).

Yeah personally I have said many times that I am fine with animation. However, I hate people' reaction towards the show and the endless Z VS SUPER comparisons......Not because z has more good moments but because of people' negativity. Going against a new show and literally attacking every episode when most fans don't know anything about animation or how they produce it.
I am happy that the show continues and the story is good. I enjoy the new transformations and hearing that is sells good is pretty nice. I would be just fine with just Toyotaro's manga, having an animated version is a nice +.