Would Super Saiyan 4 have made Son Goku from the Majin Buu Arc stronger than both Ultimate Gohan and Super Buu?

[TheMikado]

It literally never says that SSJ4 makes Goku stronger than Oozaru, further have you actually ever read this guide like you claim? It specifically says Baby Oozaru was stronger than SSJ4.

Baby Oozaru
Super Baby transformed into this form after being bathed with 1,000 times the normal amount of Bruits Waves!! As the strongest of warriors, who blends together Tsufru science and Saiya power, his power surpasses even Super Goku 4!! Looking at his golden fur, it seems this ought to be considered a warrior evolved from Super Saiyan!!

You assumption that SSJ4 is somehow more powerful than Golden Oozaru is NOT what it's stating. Your assumptions are baseless I'm showing you and everyone here how you have not even bothered to read the material you claim to be so knowledgeable about.

[Ash57]

It literally never says that SSJ4 makes Goku stronger than Oozaru, further have you actually ever read this guide like you claim? It specifically says Baby Oozaru was stronger than SSJ4.

Baby Oozaru
Super Baby transformed into this form after being bathed with 1,000 times the normal amount of Bruits Waves!! As the strongest of warriors, who blends together Tsufru science and Saiya power, his power surpasses even Super Goku 4!! Looking at his golden fur, it seems this ought to be considered a warrior evolved from Super Saiyan!!

You assumption that SSJ4 is somehow more powerful than Golden Oozaru is NOT what it's stating. Your assumptions are baseless I'm showing you and everyone here how you have not even bothered to read the material you claim to be so knowledgeable about.

Uh....what Ooozaru Baby being stronger than SSJ4 Goku has to do with anything here? You're literally purposedly misinterpreting the quote. It just means Baby was close enough to be able to surpass Goku after transforming into a Oozaru. Furthermore, going by your flawed logic, Super Baby Vegeta(Oozaru) is 10,000 times stronger than what he would be as a normal Oozaru, considering that
Regular Oozaru = 10x
Golden Oozaru Baby = bathed with 1,000 times the normal amount of waves. 1,000 x 10 = 10,000.

Of course this is false, but that's what is implied if we go by the flawed(and baseless) logic you're using of Super Saiyan 4's multiplier being 10x a normal SSj.

Furthermore, GTPF says that once Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan 4, he became the mightiest of the warriors, which means:
SSJ4 Goku > Golden Oozaru Goku.

And since both of their base powers are the same, then logically SSJ4 > Golden Oozaru
Not to mention GTPF calls SSJ4 the 'Ultimate Super Saiyan'....

You literally have nothing to stand on, and you failed to address any of my points correctly. Just give it up and accept you've lost this debate, it will hurt a lot less.

[TheMikado]

Look I'm done, it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you. You're literally not posting coherently now. I can't even follow what you are trying to say. All that sentence was saying is that the Golden Oozaru was a mindless beast and when he gained reasoning became a legitimate warrior. It's no different than the Hulk having Bruce Banners mind, it doesn't make him stronger, but it would make him the strongest soldier. You're casually linking things and misinterpreting one sentence instead of actually reading the context which again is my argument against you. You haven't actually read anything. You plucked sentences out of context and using them to support your argument. I will not continue this discussion because it's impossible to have one with you.

[Ash57]

I say the exact same thing about you.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

You do realize that a 10x power boost is a pretty big deal right?

The single biggest power boost form wise is SS1 which grants 50x the users base power, SS2 merely doubles that power (x2) and SS3 quadruples it (X4). SS4 having a 10x power boost is a gigantic improvement over SS3 especial when you consider the fact that the form doesn't seem to have 3's flaws.

Get over the fact that the red monkey form isn't some uber powerful, curb stomping, beat all transformation.

Beat me to the first base indeed but i'll stretch on what you said.

Vegeta; 24,000

Dodoria:21,000

Vegeta isn't even 2x his strength and beat him faster than that Saibaman killed Yamcha.


Ssj4 Goku (Buu saga) would wipe the floor with every Buu.

[TheUltimateNinja]

You do realize that a 10x power boost is a pretty big deal right?

The single biggest power boost form wise is SS1 which grants 50x the users base power, SS2 merely doubles that power (x2) and SS3 quadruples it (X4). SS4 having a 10x power boost is a gigantic improvement over SS3 especial when you consider the fact that the form doesn't seem to have 3's flaws.

Get over the fact that the red monkey form isn't some uber powerful, curb stomping, beat all transformation.

Beat me to the first base indeed but i'll stretch on what you said.

Vegeta; 24,000

Dodoria:21,000

Vegeta isn't even 2x his strength and beat him faster than that Saibaman killed Yamcha.


Ssj4 Goku (Buu saga) would wipe the floor with every Buu.

A big part of that was Yuuki loss, though. When a character loses the will to fight they become substantially weaker. If they're determined they can survive for quite a while against much more powerful opponents, for example Vegeta (18,000) against Kaioken x3 (24,000) and x4 (32,000) Goku.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

You do realize that a 10x power boost is a pretty big deal right?

The single biggest power boost form wise is SS1 which grants 50x the users base power, SS2 merely doubles that power (x2) and SS3 quadruples it (X4). SS4 having a 10x power boost is a gigantic improvement over SS3 especial when you consider the fact that the form doesn't seem to have 3's flaws.

Get over the fact that the red monkey form isn't some uber powerful, curb stomping, beat all transformation.

Beat me to the first base indeed but i'll stretch on what you said.

Vegeta; 24,000

Dodoria:21,000

Vegeta isn't even 2x his strength and beat him faster than that Saibaman killed Yamcha.


Ssj4 Goku (Buu saga) would wipe the floor with every Buu.

A big part of that was Yuuki loss, though. When a character loses the will to fight they become substantially weaker. If they're determined they can survive for quite a while against much more powerful opponents, for example Vegeta (18,000) against Kaioken x3 (24,000) and x4 (32,000) Goku.

Zarbon:23,000

Vegeta:24,000

Zarbon was willing to fight Vegeta and he still lost.
Even when Zarbon transformed he fought a Vegeta who wanted to fight as well.

You could be right though. Recoome was 40,000-60,000 and he got some type of damage from Vegeta who's power level was sitting at 30,000. Even though Recoome did not power up until Goku arrived he should have beaten Vegeta easily but Vegeta's will to survive kept him going

But this is Goku vs people like Gohan who simply give up when things get too hard.

I'm not sure if Piccolo said this in the manga but in the anime he told Gotenks buu has not fought anyone as strong as him and he could not handle it (He couldn't because the way acted with Gohan and Vegito was hilarious)

[Steven Bloodriver]

You do realize that a 10x power boost is a pretty big deal right?

The single biggest power boost form wise is SS1 which grants 50x the users base power, SS2 merely doubles that power (x2) and SS3 quadruples it (X4). SS4 having a 10x power boost is a gigantic improvement over SS3 especial when you consider the fact that the form doesn't seem to have 3's flaws.

Get over the fact that the red monkey form isn't some uber powerful, curb stomping, beat all transformation.

Beat me to the first base indeed but i'll stretch on what you said.

Vegeta; 24,000

Dodoria:21,000

Vegeta isn't even 2x his strength and beat him faster than that Saibaman killed Yamcha.


Ssj4 Goku (Buu saga) would wipe the floor with every Buu.

Exactly, as while at Super Saiyan 3, Goku would have very little chance against any fused form of Kid Buu and Super Buu, but at the true ultimate form of the Saiyans of Super Saiyan 4, Goku would utterly annihilate Kid Buu straight to Buuhan.

[Ash57]

SSj3 Gotenks >>> SSj4 Goku(Boo Saga)

[Steven Bloodriver]

SSj3 Gotenks >>> SSj4 Goku(Boo Saga)

That is where you are gravely mistaken, Ash57. For the Super Saiyan 4 transformation is much more powerful than the Golden Great Ape transformation which is in turn much more powerful than the Super Saiyan 3 transformation as shown in both Little Goku (GT)'s rematch with Baby Vegeta (as even after getting his tail back to help regulate his power, SSJ3 Goku could not beat Super Baby 2), but once after Little Goku (GT) achieved the Golden Great Ape state, he became more than a match for Super Baby 2 (with Super Saiyan 4 making it completely impossible for Super Baby 2 to even land any damaging hits against Little Goku (GT).

Now, with what was said in the above paragraph, Goku from the Majin Buu Arc as a Golden Great Ape alone would be able to almost topple everyone stronger than he ever was as a Super Saiyan 3, and with the transformation into Super Saiyan 4 enabling Goku to even rival Vegito, any Majin Buu would have stood not even a Ghost of a chance.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

SSj3 Gotenks >>> SSj4 Goku(Boo Saga)

So Gotenks is 10 ssj3 Gokus?

[MaxZ]

According to my numbers, the x5000 multiplier along with whatever potential unlock he got would put him above Gohan and regular Super Boo. He wouldn't touch Super Vegetto though.

What are people's multipliers for these guys? Even in GT Gotenks and Trunks suggest fusing as adult/teens and Goku says they still couldn't beat Baby even if they all attacked at once. We know Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan are strong but not sure why people have them 10x stronger than Goku SSJ3. How strong do people think Gokus x400 SSJ3 is compared to those guys?

because SSJ1 Gotenks is superior to SSJ3 Goku. so that puts SSJ3 Gotenks at minimum 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which is a low estimate because of their training in the RoST.

I'd place SSJ3 Gotenks as roughly 10-15x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan as roughly 15-20x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

[Ash57]

SSj3 Gotenks >>> SSj4 Goku(Boo Saga)

So Gotenks is 10 ssj3 Gokus?

1. No, because Super Saiyan 4 is not a x10 multiplier. I'm tired of proving this.

2. Maybe, actually there are people who have Gotenks being 500 SSj3 Gokus due to the implications in the original manga.

That is where you are gravely mistaken, Ash57. For the Super Saiyan 4 transformation is much more powerful than the Golden Great Ape transformation which is in turn much more powerful than the Super Saiyan 3 transformation as shown in both Little Goku (GT)'s rematch with Baby Vegeta (as even after getting his tail back to help regulate his power, SSJ3 Goku could not beat Super Baby 2), but once after Little Goku (GT) achieved the Golden Great Ape state, he became more than a match for Super Baby 2 (with Super Saiyan 4 making it completely impossible for Super Baby 2 to even land any damaging hits against Little Goku (GT).

Now, with what was said in the above paragraph, Goku from the Majin Buu Arc as a Golden Great Ape alone would be able to almost topple everyone stronger than he ever was as a Super Saiyan 3, and with the transformation into Super Saiyan 4 enabling Goku to even rival Vegito, any Majin Buu would have stood not even a Ghost of a chance.

Nope. Super Saiyan 4 is stated to bring a person to their limits in the GT Perfect Files. Which means Super Saiyan 4 Goku(Boo) is far weaker than Ultimate Gohan, let alone the Boos who are stronger than Ultimate Gohan. I've already said and proven this several times throughout this thread.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

According to my numbers, the x5000 multiplier along with whatever potential unlock he got would put him above Gohan and regular Super Boo. He wouldn't touch Super Vegetto though.

What are people's multipliers for these guys? Even in GT Gotenks and Trunks suggest fusing as adult/teens and Goku says they still couldn't beat Baby even if they all attacked at once. We know Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan are strong but not sure why people have them 10x stronger than Goku SSJ3. How strong do people think Gokus x400 SSJ3 is compared to those guys?

because SSJ1 Gotenks is superior to SSJ3 Goku. so that puts SSJ3 Gotenks at minimum 8x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, which is a low estimate because of their training in the RoST.

I'd place SSJ3 Gotenks as roughly 10-15x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan as roughly 15-20x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

Ssj1 Gotenks>Goku ssj3? Proof of this. You don't need to be 10x someones strength to beat them i already showed proof if this

[ekrolo2]

Ssj1 Gotenks>Goku ssj3? Proof of this. You don't need to be 10x someones strength to beat them i already showed proof if this

Pre-ROSAT SS Gotenks was intended to fight and defeat Fat Boo thanks to Goku's estimate, he even says that two days after his fight with Fat Boo ends, someone even stronger will appear. Gotenks also powers up greatly in his base state so even if you want to argue SS Gotenks is slightly below or on par with SS3 Goku, such a thing is highly unlikely after their ROSAT training.

That being said, I don't think SS Gotenks even after the ROSAT is massively stronger than Goku. If SS3 Goku is a 40 then SS Post-ROSAT Gotenks would be 43-45.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

Ssj1 Gotenks>Goku ssj3? Proof of this. You don't need to be 10x someones strength to beat them i already showed proof if this

Pre-ROSAT SS Gotenks was intended to fight and defeat Fat Boo thanks to Goku's estimate, he even says that two days after his fight with Fat Boo ends, someone even stronger will appear. Gotenks also powers up greatly in his base state so even if you want to argue SS Gotenks is slightly below or on par with SS3 Goku, such a thing is highly unlikely after their ROSAT training.

That being said, I don't think SS Gotenks even after the ROSAT is massively stronger than Goku. If SS3 Goku is a 40 then SS Post-ROSAT Gotenks would be 43-45.

They were only in there for 2 weeks. Goku is only right due to plot everyone else doubted it but Goku.

Prime Example:Gohan had hidden potential but it was already unlocked by Guru. Gohan even having potential makes no sense anyway and he doesn't even have potential it is more like talent if you ask me but that is another story. Everyone doubted Goku's plan but in the end he is right because plot says so.

Ssj Gotenks is not stronger than Ssj3 Goku IMO.
Ssj3 Gotenks might not be either IMO.

Ssj4 Goku would stomp any Buu shown

[Ash57]

Any Boo shown, except Super Boo, South Kaioshin Boo, Gotenks Boo and Gohan Boo, they're the ones who would stomp him. Other than those 4, he would probably stomp any Boo.

Any form of Gotenks(Post RoSaT) can make a complete fool out of SSj3 Goku. Take Goku's strain out, maximize all of his abilities, and give him ANYTHING and he still loses badly against Gotenks. The fusions are in a whole new dimension man, the only ones who can possibly beat SSj3 Gotenks in a 1v1 are SSj3 Gogeta, Ultimate Gohan, South-Kaioshin Boo, Gohan and Gotenks-Boo. Anything else gets stomped and bad.

[Steven Bloodriver]

SSj3 Gotenks >>> SSj4 Goku(Boo Saga)

So Gotenks is 10 ssj3 Gokus?

1. No, because Super Saiyan 4 is not a x10 multiplier. I'm tired of proving this.

2. Maybe, actually there are people who have Gotenks being 500 SSj3 Gokus due to the implications in the original manga.

That is where you are gravely mistaken, Ash57. For the Super Saiyan 4 transformation is much more powerful than the Golden Great Ape transformation which is in turn much more powerful than the Super Saiyan 3 transformation as shown in both Little Goku (GT)'s rematch with Baby Vegeta (as even after getting his tail back to help regulate his power, SSJ3 Goku could not beat Super Baby 2), but once after Little Goku (GT) achieved the Golden Great Ape state, he became more than a match for Super Baby 2 (with Super Saiyan 4 making it completely impossible for Super Baby 2 to even land any damaging hits against Little Goku (GT).

Now, with what was said in the above paragraph, Goku from the Majin Buu Arc as a Golden Great Ape alone would be able to almost topple everyone stronger than he ever was as a Super Saiyan 3, and with the transformation into Super Saiyan 4 enabling Goku to even rival Vegito, any Majin Buu would have stood not even a Ghost of a chance.

Nope. Super Saiyan 4 is stated to bring a person to their limits in the GT Perfect Files. Which means Super Saiyan 4 Goku(Boo) is far weaker than Ultimate Gohan, let alone the Boos who are stronger than Ultimate Gohan. I've already said and proven this several times throughout this thread.

Why are you refusing to take into account all of the points I have made that prove in that Goku from the Majin Buu Saga as a Super Saiyan 4 would defeat any form of Majin Buu? Also, why don't you get that every transformation in the Dragon Ball metaseries brings out the hidden power of their user that can be described as bringing their user to their limits? (If only at that specific point in time, as many characters continue to prove time and time again that limits are meant to be broken, by further unlocking more and more powerful transformations.)

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSj3 Gotenks >>> SSj4 Goku(Boo Saga)

So Gotenks is 10 ssj3 Gokus?

1. No, because Super Saiyan 4 is not a x10 multiplier. I'm tired of proving this.

2. Maybe, actually there are people who have Gotenks being 500 SSj3 Gokus due to the implications in the original manga.

That is where you are gravely mistaken, Ash57. For the Super Saiyan 4 transformation is much more powerful than the Golden Great Ape transformation which is in turn much more powerful than the Super Saiyan 3 transformation as shown in both Little Goku (GT)'s rematch with Baby Vegeta (as even after getting his tail back to help regulate his power, SSJ3 Goku could not beat Super Baby 2), but once after Little Goku (GT) achieved the Golden Great Ape state, he became more than a match for Super Baby 2 (with Super Saiyan 4 making it completely impossible for Super Baby 2 to even land any damaging hits against Little Goku (GT).

Now, with what was said in the above paragraph, Goku from the Majin Buu Arc as a Golden Great Ape alone would be able to almost topple everyone stronger than he ever was as a Super Saiyan 3, and with the transformation into Super Saiyan 4 enabling Goku to even rival Vegito, any Majin Buu would have stood not even a Ghost of a chance.

Nope. Super Saiyan 4 is stated to bring a person to their limits in the GT Perfect Files. Which means Super Saiyan 4 Goku(Boo) is far weaker than Ultimate Gohan, let alone the Boos who are stronger than Ultimate Gohan. I've already said and proven this several times throughout this thread.

Super Saiyan 4 at minimum has to be a 10x multiplier because Golden Oozaru is a 10x multiplier and SSJ4 can't be weaker than Oozaru.

[Ash57]

So Gotenks is 10 ssj3 Gokus?

1. No, because Super Saiyan 4 is not a x10 multiplier. I'm tired of proving this.

2. Maybe, actually there are people who have Gotenks being 500 SSj3 Gokus due to the implications in the original manga.

That is where you are gravely mistaken, Ash57. For the Super Saiyan 4 transformation is much more powerful than the Golden Great Ape transformation which is in turn much more powerful than the Super Saiyan 3 transformation as shown in both Little Goku (GT)'s rematch with Baby Vegeta (as even after getting his tail back to help regulate his power, SSJ3 Goku could not beat Super Baby 2), but once after Little Goku (GT) achieved the Golden Great Ape state, he became more than a match for Super Baby 2 (with Super Saiyan 4 making it completely impossible for Super Baby 2 to even land any damaging hits against Little Goku (GT).

Now, with what was said in the above paragraph, Goku from the Majin Buu Arc as a Golden Great Ape alone would be able to almost topple everyone stronger than he ever was as a Super Saiyan 3, and with the transformation into Super Saiyan 4 enabling Goku to even rival Vegito, any Majin Buu would have stood not even a Ghost of a chance.

Nope. Super Saiyan 4 is stated to bring a person to their limits in the GT Perfect Files. Which means Super Saiyan 4 Goku(Boo) is far weaker than Ultimate Gohan, let alone the Boos who are stronger than Ultimate Gohan. I've already said and proven this several times throughout this thread.

Super Saiyan 4 at minimum has to be a 10x multiplier because Golden Oozaru is a 10x multiplier and SSJ4 can't be weaker than Oozaru.

1. Where in the GTPF it is stated that Golden Oozaru is a x10 multiplier? Again, another baseless assumption
2. GT Perfect Files disagrees.

Why are you refusing to take into account all of the points I have made that prove in that Goku from the Majin Buu Saga as a Super Saiyan 4 would defeat any form of Majin Buu?

Because those points are nothing but baseless assumptions which are immeditely debunked by the fact that GT Perfect Files disagrees with them. Is it really that hard to understand the words "GT PERFECT FILES SAYS OTHERWISE?"