Is it ironic the current FUNI/VA dub is well received now?

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Why should we expect a decent release anyway, if Toei thinks (thought) an Americanized adaptation was preferable?

We should expect a decent release because it's Funimation's job to put them out. Why do you expect the mailman to deliver all of your mail? Also, Toei couldn't care less what's "preferable", they approved it (and many other, worse dubs, by the way) because they knew it would make them profit, that's how corporations work.

What you're asking is basically that FUNi release this subtitled-only (or not produce an Americanized version of the show to broaden the audience as wide as possible), & you're treating them as if they were well-equipped agents similar to their post-2004 status. It wasnt the same case. Fukunaga's job was to make Toei money off of the property - Toei didnt care that much about international audiences, or believe that their raw product would sell very well, which is why they simply shipped it off to a penniless Toei relative.


* They didnt have the funds to do a good dub, regardless of having good translations later on. They tried, with the Pioneer deal (not sure why it didnt go through), & they gave us subtitled releases ASAP. Around the same time DBZ really blew up, we got the Japanese version. As for "They had 2 seasons in English to go off of"...that was the same, terribly mistranslated/misrepresented show, just with real (& very good!) actors. They only got the funds to do a dub because of Saban, whose standard procedure...well, it wasnt faithful, & it was basicly in line with FUNi at the time.

Let me say: an accurate dub, based off the Mexican tape, wouldnt have succeeded with the money that FUNi had at the time. What sort of dubs do you like, if at all? The great Kevin Seymour (RIP) mentioned $10,000 an episode for his dubs at Animaze (Bebop, Wolf's Rain, GitS SAC, 2nd Akira, Code Geass, Big O). These are good dubs, but think of the cost for a show like Dragon Ball. It's several millions of dollars. They don't even spend that much money currently, even for Dragon Ball, & that's with the massive funding that DB does for them. Subtitles are much cheaper & it is easier to provide official subbed versions (which they always have), & their goal is to make money for the OG company. In this case, Toei wasnt interested, & allowed them to do as they wish. If you're going to blame someone, it is definitely Toei. If they'd licensed it to an actual company, like Pioneer or Viz, i wouldnt defend this sort of thing.

Anyhow, what's wrong with making localized adaptations of the show? Sega put in the money, from the ground up, to make several American Sonic cartoons. Nintendo did this back in the 90's as well, as did Capcom (ironically with many of the Ocean Group VA's) for Megaman & Street Fighter. There are Japan-ized Marvel cartoons. Yes, this is different because it's the same animation, but key thing to remember is the actual show has always been on the disc, widely available. I'm definitely annoyed when it comes to the "Orange Bricks", tho. Ugh.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Why should we expect a decent release anyway, if Toei thinks (thought) an Americanized adaptation was preferable?

We should expect a decent release because it's Funimation's job to put them out. Why do you expect the mailman to deliver all of your mail? Also, Toei couldn't care less what's "preferable", they approved it (and many other, worse dubs, by the way) because they knew it would make them profit, that's how corporations work.

What you're asking is basically that FUNi release this subtitled-only (or not produce an Americanized version of the show to broaden the audience as wide as possible), & you're treating them as if they were well-equipped agents similar to their post-2004 status. It wasnt the same case. Fukunaga's job was to make Toei money off of the property - Toei didnt care that much about international audiences, or believe that their raw product would sell very well, which is why they simply shipped it off to a penniless Toei relative.


* They didnt have the funds to do a good dub, regardless of having good translations later on. They tried, with the Pioneer deal (not sure why it didnt go through), & they gave us subtitled releases ASAP. Around the same time DBZ really blew up, we got the Japanese version. As for "They had 2 seasons in English to go off of"...that was the same, terribly mistranslated/misrepresented show, just with real (& very good!) actors. They only got the funds to do a dub because of Saban, whose standard procedure...well, it wasnt faithful, & it was basicly in line with FUNi at the time.

Let me say: an accurate dub, based off the Mexican tape, wouldnt have succeeded with the money that FUNi had at the time. What sort of dubs do you like, if at all? The great Kevin Seymour (RIP) mentioned $10,000 an episode for his dubs at Animaze (Bebop, Wolf's Rain, GitS SAC, 2nd Akira, Code Geass, Big O). These are good dubs, but think of the cost for a show like Dragon Ball. It's several millions of dollars. They don't even spend that much money currently, even for Dragon Ball, & that's with the massive funding that DB does for them. Subtitles are much cheaper & it is easier to provide official subbed versions (which they always have), & their goal is to make money for the OG company. In this case, Toei wasnt interested, & allowed them to do as they wish. If you're going to blame someone, it is definitely Toei. If they'd licensed it to an actual company, like Pioneer or Viz, i wouldnt defend this sort of thing.

Anyhow, what's wrong with making localized adaptations of the show? Sega put in the money, from the ground up, to make several American Sonic cartoons. Nintendo did this back in the 90's as well, as did Capcom (ironically with many of the Ocean Group VA's) for Megaman & Street Fighter. There are Japan-ized Marvel cartoons. Yes, this is different because it's the same animation, but key thing to remember is the actual show has always been on the disc, widely available. I'm definitely annoyed when it comes to the "Orange Bricks", tho. I certainly sympathize with you there..

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I really hate this format, but I can't get through all of your points in an orderly fashion otherwise, so forgive me.

What you're asking is basically that FUNi release this subtitled-only (or not produce an Americanized version of the show to broaden the audience as wide as possible)

Actually, nowhere did I say anything like that. You're putting words in my mouth, I don't appreciate it and I won't forget it. What I've been saying is that they could have and should have done better, even with their limited resources.

What you're asking is basically that FUNi release this subtitled-only (or not produce an Americanized version of the show to broaden the audience as wide as possible), & you're treating them as if they were well-equipped agents similar to their post-2004 status. It wasnt the same case. Fukunaga's job was to make Toei money off of the property - Toei didn't ... believe that their raw product would sell very well, which is why they simply shipped it off to a penniless Toei relative.

The reason that Funimation acquired the show, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, was because someone oriental in Funimation's ranks had a friend or relative in Toei, and got special treatment. it had already flopped with Harmony Gold. It had little to do with how much Toei "cared".

They didnt have the funds to do a good dub, regardless of having good translations later on.

It takes more time and money to change a script, so this literally makes no sense. I'm curious as to why you're so defensive of the work that they did.

Let me say: an accurate dub, based off the Mexican tape, wouldn't have succeeded with the money that FUNi had at the time.

Money isn't some magic elixir that makes things succeed or fail. They almost certainly could have acquired the Spanish dialogue fairly easily, and I guarantee that those scripts would have succeeded just as well as what those that were patched together at the time put out at the time. I don't know why you think that making hundreds of changes to a script is cheaper than leaving it alone as much as possible.

Subtitles are much cheaper & it is easier to provide official subbed versions (which they always have), & their goal is to make money for the OG company. In this case, Toei wasnt interested, & allowed them to do as they wish. If you're going to blame someone, it is definitely Toei. If they'd licensed it to an actual company, like Pioneer or Viz, i wouldn't defend this sort of thing.

Subtitles aren't marketable to American children, which is where the market is. Also, I've gone over why Toei gave the rights to Funimation. I don't know where you got the idea that Toei only gave it to Funimation because they're cheap, but it's grossly misinformed.

Anyhow, what's wrong with making localized adaptations of the show? Sega put in the money, from the ground up, to make several American Sonic cartoons. Nintendo did this back in the 90's as well, as did Capcom (ironically with many of the Ocean Group VA's) for Megaman & Street Fighter. There are Japan-ized Marvel cartoons. Yes, this is different because it's the same animation, but key thing to remember is the actual show has always been on the disc, widely available.

I have no problem with "localized adaptations", that's what Dragon Ball Kai was. I have a problem when they adapt it poorly.

[Nightmare Wheel]

The reason that Funimation acquired the show, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, was because someone oriental in Funimation's ranks had a friend or relative in Toei, and got special treatment. it had already flopped with Harmony Gold. It had little to do with how much Toei "cared".

Funimation's founder, Gen Fukunaga, is the nephew of Nagafumi Hori, who directed and produced some of Toei's Super Sentai and Kamen Rider shows.

[jjgp1112]

I think ahmed's overall point is that Toei simply thought of the DB anime as a disposable property (after all, most anime are just merchandise vehicles) and dumped it off to a tiny company out of nepotism. FUNimation, being a tiny company, simply didn't have the resources to produce a competent dub at that time. They didn't have the translations, and they were banking their success on the show taking off nationally, so they felt the need to "punch up" the already haphazardly translated script and add music. When they did produce a good dub in the first 3 movies, it was because they outsourced it to Pioneer, a company that actually had money and prestige.

If Toei had simply given Dragon Ball to a company that could actually afford to produce a good dub, we'd have a good dub right from the start. But they didn't. They gave it to a startup that needed every single penny it could get and couldn't afford to do a likely mediocre dub that wouldn't be popular with anyone.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I think ahmed's overall point is that Toei simply thought of the DB anime as a disposable property (after all, most anime are just merchandise vehicles) and dumped it off to a tiny company out of nepotism. FUNimation, being a tiny company, simply didn't have the resources to produce a competent dub at that time. They didn't have the translations, and they were banking their success on the show taking off nationally, so they felt the need to "punch up" the already haphazardly translated script and add music. When they did produce a good dub in the first 3 movies, it was because they outsourced it to Pioneer, a company that actually had money and prestige.

If Toei had simply given Dragon Ball to a company that could actually afford to produce a good dub, we'd have a good dub right from the start. But they didn't. They gave it to a startup that needed every single penny it could get and couldn't afford to do a likely mediocre dub that wouldn't be popular with anyone.

His point seems to be that Funimation has little to no responsibility for their poor work, and that all we want is a subtitled version anyway. Somehow, this also means that we have no right or reason to critique the dub, because subtitles exist? All of this based on false assumptions, also. Honestly, I couldn't pin it down his position if you paid me.