Yamcha and the bad taste situation

[Kid Buu]

Well If we're counting Invisible Man as Krillin's win then we should count Dracula as Yamcha's victory since Puar & Upa's strategy were entirely Yamcha's idea.

[ABED]

She didn't physically touch him. Kuririn might as well have gotten in the ring and thrown a punch. Baba's "interference" was akin to cheering really loud. Who cares who can beat whom in a straight up fight? Invisibility was a legitimate advantage, much like Guldo's time freeze.

Krillin didn't touch the Invisible man either. Not even a little bit.

Some of Roshi's blood happens to fall onto the Invisible Man? Too bad, so sad.
Again it's as interfering as the cheating old hag was which is why she has to accept it as Yamcha's win.

He intentionally covered a participant in blood, he might as well have touched him

People cheering at a sporting event is not against any rule, throwing things and covering the participants in some liquid is. Kuririn did get physically involved whether it was his blood or not. I think you are being pedantic about Kuririn's clear involvement.

Well If we're counting Invisible Man as Krillin's win then we should count Dracula as Yamcha's victory since Puar & Upa's strategy were entirely Yamcha's idea.

It's not a matter of whose idea it was. The issue is what counts as legitimate outside interference. Granted, Baba doesn't have a lot of rules, but shouting loud isn't in the same league as dousing someone with liquid if you aren't in the match.

[Kid Buu]

Except what counts as outside interference is entirely subjective, and the tournament host did not consider it cheating, therefore it was not.

Not sure why it matters anyway. Nobody goes around dismissing Goku's victories against Daimao, Freeza, and Buu due to outside interference.

[ABED]

Except what counts as outside interference is entirely subjective, and the tournament host did not consider it cheating, therefore it was not.

Not sure why it matters anyway. Nobody goes around dismissing Goku's victories against Daimao, Freeza, and Buu due to outside interference.

It was interference, the only question is what is allowed, which I already acknowledged as being the case.

Goku didn't fight Daimao and Freeza and Buu in a tournament with rules. He was fighting for his life and the sake of the world/universe. It's anything goes and equivocating a tournament with rules and a battle for the sake of the world.

[Kid Buu]

That's the point. In Yamcha's fight, it was under tournament rules, and the host didn't declare what happened in that fight as illegal, therefore it is his victory.

[ABED]

That's the point. In Yamcha's fight, it was under tournament rules, and the host didn't declare what happened in that fight as illegal, therefore it is his victory.

That's not the point. You originally said, "I always thought it was odd that people constantly bring up the fact that Krillin interfered with Yamcha's victory against the Invisible Man, but ignore that it was only to counter Baba's interference." This is a different point than the one you are making now which I brought up first. I know she doesn't have a problem with that, just like she doesn't have an issue with participants dying. The real question is whether yelling really loud is the same as dousing someone with liquid from the outside. I never ignored it, I simply don't consider being real loud the same as physical outside interference.

[Kid Buu]

That's the point. In Yamcha's fight, it was under tournament rules, and the host didn't declare what happened in that fight as illegal, therefore it is his victory.

That's not the point. You originally said, "I always thought it was odd that people constantly bring up the fact that Krillin interfered with Yamcha's victory against the Invisible Man, but ignore that it was only to counter Baba's interference." This is a different point than the one you are making now which I brought up first. I know she doesn't have a problem with that, just like she doesn't have an issue with participants dying. The real question is whether yelling really loud is the same as dousing someone with liquid from the outside. I never ignored it, I simply don't consider being real loud the same as physical outside interference.

Well I should have used quotes in my original post, because it was in the context of replying to these posts:

Froze around women, landed on nards, never won a single fight. I think it's more than fine to poke fun at him by simply pointing those things out. It's not like we're talking about Piccolo, Tenshinhan, or even Kuririn.

Even in the Uranai Baba Tournament, he doesn't win on his own. Kuririn's strategy of using Roshi's massive nose bleed after seeing Bulma's breasts does he win the match.

What I'm trying to say is that it was to counter Baba's interference, and even if you ignore that part, Yamcha still won the fight. Therefore he has won a single fight.

[ABED]

But her interference did involve physicality. I still stand by that statement as without someone physically getting involved, he would've lost. To make matters even worse, it wasn't even his idea. Kuririn had to do it for him. Kuririn came up with the plan and then executed the plan. Yamcha just sweeped up.

[Zephyr]

Daizenshuu 2 considers the match to be a win for Yamcha.

[ABED]

Daizenshuu 2 considers the match to be a win for Yamcha.

I never claimed it wasn't, but I also don't really care what the Daizenshuu says. That might come off as harsh, but the manga or TV show are more authoritative than guidebooks. Yeah, it goes in the win column for Yamcha, but there should be an asterisk next to it.

[Zephyr]

Yeah, it goes in the win column for Yamcha, but there should be an asterisk next to it.

If you change the name of the fight to "Yamcha vs Invisible Man and Baba" then yeah, there should be an asterisk. But it's not. It's "Yamcha vs Invisible Man". Baba interfering cancels out Krillin's interference.

Froze around women, landed on nards, never won a single fight. I think it's more than fine to poke fun at him by simply pointing those things out. It's not like we're talking about Piccolo, Tenshinhan, or even Kuririn.

Even in the Uranai Baba Tournament, he doesn't win on his own. Kuririn's strategy of using Roshi's massive nose bleed after seeing Bulma's breasts does he win the match.

What I'm trying to say is that it was to counter Baba's interference, and even if you ignore that part, Yamcha still won the fight. Therefore he has won a single fight.

He's won at least one on-screen/panel preliminary Budokai fight as well.

[ABED]

If you change the name of the fight to "Yamcha vs Invisible Man and Baba" then yeah, there should be an asterisk. But it's not. It's "Yamcha vs Invisible Man". Baba interfering cancels out Krillin's interference.

Did she physically interfere? No, she yelled really loud. Kuririn splashed blood on someone. The interferences do not cancel each other out, especially in light of one being more effective. And even in your arguable reductio ad absurdum, it should be "Yamcha and Kuririn vs. Invisible man and Baba". Her "interference" is no different than a really loud crowd cheering. Kuririn's interference is like someone hitting a boxer with a chair.

He's won at least one on-screen/panel preliminary Budokai fight as well.

Fine, forgot about those, he can defeat ham and eggers.

[Akyon]

Tbf I don't really care what the Danzenshuu says either, but he clearly won that fight as Invisible Man surrenders after getting smacked around by Yamcha a few times.

If Baba was cheering, that'd be different. That's just a side effect of the match. But she's not. She's actively trying to sabotage Yamcha by singing loudly and offkey in as distracting a manner as possible. This technique is used in tennis IRL with the loud and offputting grunts of "UNGH!" and there's a lot of debate whether this is poor sportsmanship or not as it can really throw someone off their game.

After Yamcha pummels Invisible Man, Baba is woman enough to still give him the win because she knows it's no more underhanded than her own fighters and set up; an invisible man, a vampire who can turn into a bat at will making him insanely hard to ring out or hit for anyone who can't fly, a man with the power to one hit KILL anyone apart from Goku with his evil beam and a Mummy so huge he takes up the entire fighting arena she makes the opponents fight him on giving them no room to think or keep their distance or even approach him from. Every single one of her matches is set up to disadvantage her opponents and give her fighters the maximum advantage she can. Only Gohan is a legit tournament fight with no sabotaging happening.

He won a fight. On screen. Against a named opponent. This happened. Why are we trying to discredit him from winning a fight he won?

He's not Chiaoutzu; he does occasionally win on screen.

[Zephyr]

Did she physically interfere? No, she yelled really loud. Kuririn splashed blood on someone. The interferences do not cancel each other out, especially in light of one being more effective.

As soon as Yamcha managed to overcome the only thing that would have kept him from winning the match otherwise, Baba deliberately went out of her way to make that impossible. She made one form of fair strategy impossible when she discovered that it was going to work. That's cheating.

They might not both be physical, but they have the same intent and consequence.

But if you insist on being excessively pedantic, Krillin didn't physically interfere with the match. He moved Roshi and Bulma somewhere, not in the ring, and pulled down Bulma's top. That's it. That's literally all Krillin did. No physical interference. Roshi was the one whose blood went into the ring, and he didn't even realize what was going on.

But that doesn't matter anyway, because again, same intent, same consequence.

[ABED]

As soon as Yamcha managed to overcome the only thing that would have kept him from winning the match otherwise, Baba deliberately went out of her way to make that impossible. She made one form of fair strategy impossible when she discovered that it was going to work. That's cheating.

That's not cheating because she didn't lay a hand (please don't be overly literal in your response) on Yamcha. And it doesn't matter if it's one thing, The Invisible Man's power was perfectly legit. All she did was shout. Kuririn splashed blood on the opponent. That's physically getting involved.

Krillin didn't physically interfere with the match. He moved Roshi and Bulma somewhere, not in the ring, and pulled down Bulma's top. That's it. That's literally all Krillin did.

Even then you're wrong. He directly caused Roshi to splash blood on Yamcha's opponent in the ring. That is physical interference.

If Baba was cheering, that'd be different. That's just a side effect of the match. But she's not. She's actively trying to sabotage Yamcha by singing loudly and offkey in as distracting a manner as possible. This technique is used in tennis IRL with the loud and offputting grunts of "UNGH!" and there's a lot of debate whether this is poor sportsmanship or not as it can really throw someone off their game.

Baseball fans taunting players is not against the rules. And the tennis thing is interesting, but if players can't stay on their game in face of noise, that's their fault.

He's not Chiaoutzu; he does occasionally win on screen.

This goes to the heart of the matter. He occasionally wins, but only against ham and eggers, and the biggest significant win is due to Kuririn's strategy.

[Kid Buu]

Daizenshuu 2 considers the match to be a win for Yamcha.

So does Akira Toriyama, since he drew Yamcha as a the victor on the brackets for the cover of Chapter 101.

on-screen/panel preliminary Budokai fight as well.

As well as winning against (with the help of Puar) Oozaru Goku, as well as Boss Rabbit's mooks.

[ABED]

Sure, Yamcha won a match in a tournament that was very loose with the rules, but other than that he beats no names in the prelims and disposable lackeys.

[Zephyr]

Kuririn splashed blood on the opponent.

Krillin wasn't wading in blood and then splashing it at anyone. It came out of Roshi's nose. Krillin didn't physically pull it out of his nose, and he didn't physically take it to the ring and drop it onto Invisible Man.

Roshi is the only one who physically interfered, and it wasn't intentional. Krillin caused him to physically interfere. That's not the same as physically interfering himself. I know you care about the tiniest, most minute, most absurdly insignificant distinctions, so I thought I'd spell that out for you.

Baseball fans taunting players is not against the rules. And the tennis thing is interesting, but if players can't stay on their game in face of noise, that's their fault.

If hearing was the only way to win the game, then it would be against the rules. That much is well beyond stupidly obvious. You're treating this as if Yamcha was in danger of losing to a visible opponent because of someone being loud. That would be different.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering though. You're seemingly incapable of conceding any point, so I'll concede instead. You win bud, I'm convinced: Baba did nothing wrong.

[RandomGuy96]

Daizenshuu 2 considers the match to be a win for Yamcha.

So does Akira Toriyama, since he drew Yamcha as a the victor on the brackets for the cover of Chapter 101.

on-screen/panel preliminary Budokai fight as well.

As well as winning against (with the help of Puar) Oozaru Goku, as well as Boss Rabbit's mooks.

If you count the show (which ABED seems to be doing), he also beat Recoome.

You win bud, I'm convinced: Baba did literally nothing wrong.

FTFY.

[ABED]

I'm not sure why I'm bothering though. You're seemingly incapable of conceding any point, so I'll concede instead. You win bud, I'm convinced: Baba did nothing wrong.

You're only bothered because I'm not conceding to you. I have no need to concede that Yamcha won, so you bringing up how the Daizenshuu or Toriyama viewed it is unnecessary since I never claimed he didn't win.

That's not the same as physically interfering himself. I know you care about the tiniest, most minute, most absurdly insignificant distinctions, so I thought I'd spell that out for you.

That is exactly the same thing as physically interfering seeing as how he physically interfered. This is hardly an insignificant distinction. That you think it's insignificant is absurd. Kuririn is the direct cause of a liquid from outside the ring getting on one of the fighters. It wasn't intentional on Muten Roshi's part, but it was on Kuririn's. He knew Roshi's reaction to anything sexual, none of it was accidental.

If you count the show (which ABED seems to be doing), he also beat Recoome.

Where did I count the show?