Would the Dragon Ball series be more respected if Z didn't exist?

[MasenkoHA]

SJW doesn't equate to liberal though.

[successoroffate]

It was more the action than a fictional alien race. Action translates across cultural boundaries. And who is arguing about popularity. We all know Z is the more successful series. What's your point?

I know Z is the more successful one, no doubt but the Fictional (and powerful) alien race brought more characters, more action, more storylines, introduced transformations, more fans and even expanded beyond the original timeline, inter alia. As much as I love and respect DB by itself without Z, it was the introduction of Saiyans in my mind (and this is not a fact, this is my opinion) that changed the landscape forever, for the better of course.

[ABED]

It was more the action than a fictional alien race. Action translates across cultural boundaries. And who is arguing about popularity. We all know Z is the more successful series. What's your point?

I know Z is the more successful one, no doubt but the Fictional (and powerful) alien race brought more characters, more action, more storylines, introduced transformations, more fans and even expanded beyond the original timeline, inter alia. As much as I love and respect DB by itself without Z, it was the introduction of Saiyans in my mind (and this is not a fact, this is my opinion) that changed the landscape forever, for the better of course.

It brought in new characters, new storylines, but not necessarily more action. It was just different. Of course Saiyans changed things, but you miss that it was an ever evolving series. Piccolo Daimao changed things, just as the Tenkaichi Budokai changed things before that.

What's Alia?

[successoroffate]

It was more the action than a fictional alien race. Action translates across cultural boundaries. And who is arguing about popularity. We all know Z is the more successful series. What's your point?

I know Z is the more successful one, no doubt but the Fictional (and powerful) alien race brought more characters, more action, more storylines, introduced transformations, more fans and even expanded beyond the original timeline, inter alia. As much as I love and respect DB by itself without Z, it was the introduction of Saiyans in my mind (and this is not a fact, this is my opinion) that changed the landscape forever, for the better of course.

It brought in new characters, new storylines, but not necessarily more action. It was just different. Of course Saiyans changed things, but you miss that it was an ever evolving series. Piccolo Daimao changed things, just as the Tenkaichi Budokai changed things before that.

What's Alia?

"Among other things"

[ecrockedboston]

I've been watching the original Dragon Ball for the first time ever. Not going to lie, I didn't like it much with the exception of the Tenkaichi Budokai episodes. However... I recently started the Piccolo Jr saga, and I have to say, it's my favorite saga of the entire series. I think the sweet spot was Piccolo Jr saga through the Namek saga.

[SaiyanZ]

The good thing about Z is that it stands on its own so if someone like you doesn't like the original that much they don't HAVE to watch it. with other anime, if you don't like a big part of it then good luck watching from anywhere other than the start and getting a full experience.

Goku's origin isn't brought up until Z so what you need to know about the main character is there from the start and everyone who's introduced later are the main characters so you're not losing important character development for the main cast.

In terms of everyone/everything else, Z more or less does a good job at bringing people up to speed with what they need to know.

The reaosn Z might be this way is because according to Toryshima, it was a reboot to DB because the original anime wasn't doing that well. By doing this, they managed to bring in new fans, remake DB's image and turn it into a mega hit franchise.

Shows are ususally judged based on their 1st arc so if they didn't split them up then everyone's view of DB would always be the Pilaf arc, not the Saiyan arc.

I do like the first part though. I love younger Goku and Roshi and the Piccolo stuff especially. I love the manga in its entirety, I just think its pretty clear to me at least that Z is the better part; then again, its all subjective.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The series would be far less popular if Z didn't exist.

[sintzu]

I do like the first part though, I just think its pretty clear to me at least that Z is the better part.

Never mind then. It's just the way you put it gave me the impression you didn't like it that much.

[SaiyanZ]

I do like the first part though, I just think its pretty clear to me at least that Z is the better part.

Never mind then. It's just the way you put it gave me the impression you didn't like it that much.

I love it, I just hate all the people who ride the bandwagon and say it was better than Z because of the stuff I said earlier: no "tactics" (which is false), power levels and lasers are everything (which is also false), the humans get left behind (which had already happened in the first part), etc. The funniest thing to me is when people say it used "more" martial arts and then they quickly cite the Turtle style, when it wasn't a real martial art to begin with, given how Roshi trained Goku and Krillin had nothing to do with actual martial arts and instead was about building muscle and stamina .

[ABED]

The good thing about Z is that it stands on its own

It absolutely doesn't. No, you don't have to have seen DB to get DBZ, but that's less to do with it being a stand alone and more that the story just isn't complicated. However, it's still predicated on what came before. Piccolo's choice to give his life to save Gohan means FAR less if you haven't experienced his history. Many TV shows do a bit of a reset every now and then to bring in new viewers, but are still built on what came before. DBZ is not a stand alone series.

[WittyUsername]

While there are numerous things I prefer about the pre-Z days of the franchise (outside of the pervertedness), if the 'Z' portion of the series never existed, the franchise would've probably never taken off outside of Japan. Like it or not, DBZ is the part of the series that's truly popular worldwide.

[ABED]

While there are numerous things I prefer about the pre-Z days of the franchise (outside of the pervertedness), if the 'Z' portion of the series never existed, the franchise would've probably never taken off outside of Japan. Like it or not, DBZ is the part of the series that's truly popular worldwide.

There's little doubt in my mind that DB would've still been plenty popular outside of Japan had Z not existed. The thread isn't really about popularity.

[WittyUsername]

While there are numerous things I prefer about the pre-Z days of the franchise (outside of the pervertedness), if the 'Z' portion of the series never existed, the franchise would've probably never taken off outside of Japan. Like it or not, DBZ is the part of the series that's truly popular worldwide.

There's little doubt in my mind that DB would've still been plenty popular outside of Japan had Z not existed. The thread isn't really about popularity.

I know it's not necessarily about popularity, but I'd have to imagine that without Vegeta, Gohan, and Super Saiyans, the series would've never taken off in the West like it did, which means that it likely would've ended up being viewed as more of a cult franchise, similar to Fist of the North Star.

There's really no point in even arguing that 'Z' is far more popular than its predecessor, even in Japan. That's why the video games almost always gloss over the first half of the series in favor of the stuff from the Saiyan arc and onwards, and why Kai skipped straight to Raditz showing up on Earth.

[sintzu]

TV shows do a bit of a reset every now and then to bring in new viewers, but are still built on what came before.

This is a better wording for what I mean. It can be watched on its own but it's better to watch after DB (assuming who's watching won't quit after the 1st arc or so).

There's little doubt in my mind that DB would've still been plenty popular outside of Japan had Z not existed.

DB isn't even popular in Japan so how would it get popular worldwide ?

Z is the reason why they got to start where they did. As good as the 1st 6 arcs are (Pilaf-Piccolo), the Saiyan arc is what launched it into the mega hit that it is today.

There's really no point in even arguing that 'Z' is far more popular than its predecessor, even in Japan.

DB is to the point where the companies behind the franchise act like it doesn't exist. To the companies and a lot of fans, the franchise is Z, GT & currently Super.

I'd have to imagine that without Vegeta, Gohan, and Super Saiyans, the series would've never taken off in the West like it did, which means that it likely would've ended up being viewed as more of a cult franchise.

I don't think it would've taken off anywehre the way it did if the Saiyan arc wasn't promoted as the 1st of a show and that wouldn't have been possible if DB continued with an episode 154.

I got into it and anime in general through that arc which I doubt I would've if I had to start with Kid Goku and Pilaf.

[precita]

Dragonball would have likely never been brought over to America. It would have been a largely forgotten Japanese anime/manga that only 80's kids/fans would have known about.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

It would have been a largely forgotten Japanese anime/manga that only 80's kids/fans would have known about.

You mean... in America?

[sintzu]

It would have been a largely forgotten Japanese anime/manga that only 80's kids/fans would have known about.

You mean... in America?

I think he means in Japan as well. Z is what turned it into a franchise and without it it most likely would've died with the manga in 1995.

[ABED]

There's really no point in even arguing that 'Z' is far more popular than its predecessor, even in Japan.

No one is arguing that it wasn't.

Yes, DBZ is the bigger name. Stop bringing it up. We all know it, but it's not the question before the coure. And not for a single second do I believe DB never would've found its way over here. Even obscure titles have been released here and DB wasn't obscure well before DBZ.

DB isn't even popular in Japan

That's plain not true. No way Toriyama would've gotten to the Saiyan arc had DB not been popular.

DB is to the point where the companies behind the franchise act like it doesn't exist. To the companies and a lot of fans, the franchise is Z, GT & currently Super.

And that friggin bothers me. It's all about Z and what comes after even though GT isn't very good. But please stop saying the Saiyan arc is what launched it into a mega hit. Even that isn't the truth. DB was on a constant upward trajectory, much like Metallica was popular even before the Black Album. The Black Album brought them mainstream success, but each album sold better than the last.

[8000 Saiyan]

Probably not. Whenever someone brings up Dragon Ball, people only think of Z.

I always thought DB was better written than Z.

[MasenkoHA]

Dragonball would have likely never been brought over to America.

And yet attempts to bring it over in America before Z happened twice.


Once by Harmony Gold in 1989 (the year Z started in Japan so clearly Dragon Ball was considered popular enough on its own to license outside of Japan) but they just dubbed, iirc, the first movie and a few episodes as a "test pilot" and only ran it in a few US cities

And then Funimation themselves in association with Ocean Group and distributed by Seagull Productions in 1995. That got canned after the first 13 episodes in favor of the more action oriented Z. And while Z did better in truth a lot had to do with Saban being able to get Funimation (comparatively) better timeslots than Seagull . And DBZ still wasn't a success until Toonami picked it up and gave it the choice timeslot of Mon-Fri after school hours.


[quote="ABED]

DB isn't even popular in Japan

That's plain not true. No way Toriyama would've gotten to the Saiyan arc had DB not been popular.[/quote]


Indeed. Nor would Dragon Ball be allowed to run three years straight in Japan if it wasn't some type of succes