The 28 planets debacle

[dbgtFO]

No it doesn't Jaco stated there were multiple galaxies in super not to mention goku scanning for vegeta where we saw five galaxies.

My guess is that there are galaxies within galaxies. I mean, that's the only way this can work.

Not really either the guidebook is outdated or recton cause either way dragon ball has more than just four galaxies so no need to bring up a long dead argument

Why is your avatar so tiny right now?

[ChaosLordBrandon]

As mentioned in another thread. This isn't anything new.

Jaco already said there weren't that many planets with intelligent life forms and that was back before the events of the original Dragon Ball when their were more planets around.

yup this and very same jaco manga he said that there was only 38 patrolers.

And why are we reviving the old outdated four galaxies arugment again? And this very same episode when there talking about Vegeta is shows more than like 5 galaxies in u7 throught out the entire run of super there has been more 1000s of galaxies shown in U7.

[kaioken12]

When was it ever confirmed that Freeza's army were based in one galaxy? They were all over the universe. Hell, Beerus and Freeza met at one stage and even became acquainted. Plus, Kaioshin states in Super that there are currently 28 planets with life on them. Not that that there was always 28 planets with life on them, even during Freeza's unchallenged reign of terror, Majin Boo's lengthy rampage, Beerus doing his usual destroyer God shit and the Saiyans running amok for shits and giggles.

Plus, and as I've said before, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. And considering that Kioashin was the last of his kind, and Majin Boo had destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, to make sure that the evil, ancient Djinn didn't come back to life. And as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, he just didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and give Babidi the chance to resurrect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets. Especially since, on top of that, Babidi was recruiting minions to assist him in bringing Majin Boo back to life. Kaioshin ultimately had to make the decision to forgo creating new life that was destroyed by Majin Boo, Freeza, the Saiyans and Beerus to ensure that Majin Boo would never be released again and bring the universe to it's knees.

I will agree that 28 planets is very low number, but it's not entirely unreasonable. Considering how much destruction has come from so many different parties for several million years, the universe being quite barren with life should really come as no major surprise. Everyone from Kaioshin, to the Kais, to Beerus, to Freeza, to Majin Boo, to the Saiyans, are at major fault for this. And people wonder why Universe 7 has such a low mortal level. Their lack of attention to their own universe has gloriously come back to bite them in the ass.

Like I said, if Freeza's forces were all over the universe and not just in our galaxy, then their business would be even more ridiculous with only about 28 planets around in the whole universe.
In the same light: Freeza made a business with planets during his reign of terror. Shrinking the number of planets (i.e. possible customers or possible commodity) anywhere near that amount (28) would be insanely stupid.

Kaioshin specifically mentions Namek, Vegeta and even Sadal, which further implies that no tremendous amounts of planets have been lost recently.
In other words, we didn't lose like lose a number of planets several orders of magnitude above these 28. We are still within the same "tier", if you want so.

Also Majin Boo's rampage was millions of years ago. (Unless you are counting the anime filler material of Kid Boo destroying worlds.)
If that would be a reason for the "28-planets-tier" (give or take some destroyed ones), then this would make Freeza's business look very ridiculous again, since Freeza was actively in business in "modern age".
Or rather, what was there to conquer for Freeza and his father, if there were only that few inhabited planets to begin with?
And whom to sell them to?

I can totally agree that U7 is "lacking" a bit, because of these numerous factors that came into play.
But 28 is still even then just an unreasonably low amount of inhabited planets for a whole universe.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

That was not even in U7

Its between U7 and U6 lmao it took place right after they left the planet of nothing.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

When was it ever confirmed that Freeza's army were based in one galaxy? They were all over the universe. Hell, Beerus and Freeza met at one stage and even became acquainted. Plus, Kaioshin states in Super that there are currently 28 planets with life on them. Not that that there was always 28 planets with life on them, even during Freeza's unchallenged reign of terror, Majin Boo's lengthy rampage, Beerus doing his usual destroyer God shit and the Saiyans running amok for shits and giggles.

Plus, and as I've said before, Kaioshin had been following Babidi in his spaceship, with the sealed Majin Boo inside, across the universe for God knows how long. And considering that Kioashin was the last of his kind, and Majin Boo had destroyed so much of the universe when he was set free that original by Babidi, Kaioshin had to keep constant tabs on him, to make sure that the evil, ancient Djinn didn't come back to life. And as a result to protect the life that remained in the universe, he just didn't have the time to create new planets, as he was supposed to given his role as a creator of life. He didn't want to lose track of Majin Boo and give Babidi the chance to resurrect Majin Boo, even if that meant he wouldn't have the time tor create new life-being and planets. Especially since, on top of that, Babidi was recruiting minions to assist him in bringing Majin Boo back to life. Kaioshin ultimately had to make the decision to forgo creating new life that was destroyed by Majin Boo, Freeza, the Saiyans and Beerus to ensure that Majin Boo would never be released again and bring the universe to it's knees.

I will agree that 28 planets is very low number, but it's not entirely unreasonable. Considering how much destruction has come from so many different parties for several million years, the universe being quite barren with life should really come as no major surprise. Everyone from Kaioshin, to the Kais, to Beerus, to Freeza, to Majin Boo, to the Saiyans, are at major fault for this. And people wonder why Universe 7 has such a low mortal level. Their lack of attention to their own universe has gloriously come back to bite them in the ass.

Like I said, if Freeza's forces were all over the universe and not just in our galaxy, then their business would be even more ridiculous with only about 28 planets around in the whole universe.
In the same light: Freeza made a business with planets during his reign of terror. Shrinking the number of planets (i.e. possible customers or possible commodity) anywhere near that amount (28) would be insanely stupid.

Kaioshin specifically mentions Namek, Vegeta and even Sadal, which further implies that no tremendous amounts of planets have been lost recently.
In other words, we didn't lose like lose a number of planets several orders of magnitude above these 28. We are still within the same "tier", if you want so.

Also Majin Boo's rampage was millions of years ago. (Unless you are counting the anime filler material of Kid Boo destroying worlds.)
If that would be a reason for the "28-planets-tier" (give or take some destroyed ones), then this would make Freeza's business look very ridiculous again, since Freeza was actively in business in "modern age".
Or rather, what was there to conquer for Freeza and his father, if there were only that few inhabited planets to begin with?
And whom to sell them to?

I can totally agree that U7 is "lacking" a bit, because of these numerous factors that came into play.
But 28 is still even then just an unreasonably low amount of inhabited planets for a whole universe.

This is after all the destruction Freeza himself caused lol, along with Beerus and Buu.

They even said with that dectrution of Old namek,planet Vegeta, Planet Sadal and such there is only 28 planets left with ningens.

Lets not forget Beerus destroyed two planets in the first episode.

Jaco himself said that there barely even life in U7 through out his manga and this was before planet vegeta,old namek and more destroyed destroyed and that there is only 38 patrolers.

He could have sold them to every body on a single planet.

There could be 50000 races on a single planet to.

[dbzfan7]

That was not even in U7

Its between U7 and U6 lmao it took place right after they left the planet of nothing.

So you're telling me there's only 4 galaxies...and yet in between the universe is supposed to be substantially larger than the universes themselves.

Not to mention Jaco said there were multiple galaxies, not 4.

[Hellspawn28]

Multiple can mean 4. Besides not all of them can have life on them. Even if they do have life, not all planet have Sapient life. They could just have wild animals and that is it.

[Zephyr]

Don't have time to read the whole thread at the moment, so apologies if this has already been brought up:

Didn't Freeza have a habit of taking planets, and killing everyone on the planet who didn't join him? If so, then everyone alive on the planets he took must have been a part of his army, the entirety of which he brought with him to Earth. A thousand random aliens from who knows how many different planets were killed by Freeza himself that day on Earth.

A second factor to take into account: large stray ki blasts. How many of those have been launched away from the planets on which the characters fight? How many planets could have been wiped out by those?

And of course, the other ones that everyone is bringing up: Beerus, Buu, and the Saiyans.

Certainly not what I expected or had thought was the amount prior or would prefer to be the number, but certainly believable enough. At the very least, it's not the least believable bit of in-universe minutia that Dragon Ball has blessed us with, let alone the revival material.

Alternatively, this is just a Toei-ism. Alternatively-alternatively, Kaioshin is just as stupid as ever and didn't actually do his homework, and made a very pessimistic prediction/excuse for him not noticing activity on too many planets.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

That was not even in U7

Its between U7 and U6 lmao it took place right after they left the planet of nothing.

So you're telling me there's only 4 galaxies...and yet in between the universe is supposed to be substantially larger than the universes themselves.

Not to mention Jaco said there were multiple galaxies, not 4.

I wasn't disagreeing with you was pointing out that scene took place between two universes not in them.

and hypothetically speaking there could zero galaxies in a universe if some body destroyed them all, but that does not include around that universe.

[dbzfan7]

Multiple can mean 4. Besides not all of them can have life on them. Even if they do have life, not all planet have Sapient life. They could just have wild animals and that is it.

I do not take mortal life, as only sentient. Other life forms are also mortals. Not to mention why would a so called empty neutral space have more galaxies, than the universe themselves. Even all of what Boo and Freeza did is but a drop in the size of a universe. Hundreds of planets between them is nothing. There's over 100 billion countless planets in just 1 Galaxy....just 1.

[pacz360]

That was not even in U7

Its between U7 and U6 lmao it took place right after they left the planet of nothing.

So you're telling me there's only 4 galaxies...and yet in between the universe is supposed to be substantially larger than the universes themselves.

Not to mention Jaco said there were multiple galaxies, not 4.

Nah he said there were multiple galaxies in his previous post.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

Multiple can mean 4. Besides not all of them can have life on them. Even if they do have life, not all planet have Sapient life. They could just have wild animals and that is it.

I do not take mortal life, as only sentient. Other life forms are also mortals. Not to mention why would a so called empty neutral space have more galaxies, than the universe themselves. Even all of what Boo and Freeza did is but a drop in the size of a universe. Hundreds of planets between them is nothing.

Majin buu rampaged across the universe and Freeza destroyed any race/planet that defied him. Ginyu Force helped Freeza do it.

The u7 saiyans were a race that genocided entire planets on a daily basis. they sent all of there babies to do it as there first task.

[Lupin879]

Okay, I've just done some more digging and there really is only four galaxies, according to Herms:

So... there you have it.

Wrong
The term galaxy is in japanese area

What are you talking about?

So I do not know how to explain this. In Japanese anime and manga there is no the term galaxy to the north, south, east and west. Ik-term galaxy is a translation error.
In Japanese Galaxy 銀河
instead

北 northエ リ ア area

[dbzfan7]

Multiple can mean 4. Besides not all of them can have life on them. Even if they do have life, not all planet have Sapient life. They could just have wild animals and that is it.

I do not take mortal life, as only sentient. Other life forms are also mortals. Not to mention why would a so called empty neutral space have more galaxies, than the universe themselves. Even all of what Boo and Freeza did is but a drop in the size of a universe. Hundreds of planets between them is nothing.

Majin buu rampaged across the universe and Freeza destroyed any race/planet that defied him. Ginyu Force helped Freeza do it.

The u7 saiyans were a race that genocided entire planets on a daily basis. they sent all of there babies to do it as there first task.

Several hundred......100 billion. Several hundred, 100 billion low ball estimate. And this is just for 1 galaxy....just 1. That doesn't even count all the other galaxies. The one's the South, East, and West Kaio watch.

Wrong
The term galaxy is in japanese area

What are you talking about?

So I do not know how to explain this. In Japanese anime and manga there is no the term galaxy to the north, south, east and west. Ik-term galaxy is a translation error.
In Japanese Galaxy 銀河
instead

北 northエ リ ア area

Thanks

[Lupin879]

I do not take mortal life, as only sentient. Other life forms are also mortals. Not to mention why would a so called empty neutral space have more galaxies, than the universe themselves. Even all of what Boo and Freeza did is but a drop in the size of a universe. Hundreds of planets between them is nothing.

Majin buu rampaged across the universe and Freeza destroyed any race/planet that defied him. Ginyu Force helped Freeza do it.

The u7 saiyans were a race that genocided entire planets on a daily basis. they sent all of there babies to do it as there first task.

Several hundred......100 billion. Several hundred, 100 billion low ball estimate. And this is just for 1 galaxy....just 1. That doesn't even count all the other galaxies. The one's the South, East, and West Kaio watch.

The socalled northen galaxy is not a galaxy but a much bigger quadrant. Also Jaco said in anime and manga there is an infinite number of galaxies. po

[dbs fanboy]

To be honest, i don't see why this is such a big issue.
Acording to today's episode 28, is the current number of planets (with mortals) after losing Planet Vegeta, Sadla, Namek and such; which means that there were more inhabited planets before. We know, that Beerus destroyed a shit load of planets (in fact in the beginning of super we saw him destroying two and apparently more of them were being obliterated off screen). We know that Buu destroyed a shit load of planets, we know that the saiyans destroyed a shit load of planets, we know that Freeza destroyed a shit load of planets and if we count filler we know that Watagashi or whatever destroyed a lot of civilizations and that the purple water thing was responsible of the destruction of an entire civilization as well. We also know that Goku and Beerus accidentally destroyed some planets while fighting.

There are only 28 planets with mortals on them but that doesn't mean that those are the only existing planets, it means that those are the only planets left with civilizations, which makes sense knowing that Buu, Beerus, Freeza and the Saiyans were a thing.

"This makes the Freeza empire look like a joke" why? This is the current number of inhabited planets, it doesn't mean that it has been like this since forever, and we know that Freeza destroyed a lot of planets and that he destroyed entire civilizations in orther to conquer their worlds.
"Beerus didn't had to destroy any shit so what was his relevance then?" Or maybe he didn't have much to destroy because he had already destroyed a shit load of stuff, plus the fact that beings like Buu, Freeza and the saiyans did the same thing? and we know that Beerus destroys whenever he wants, he fucking destroyed a planet because the food was a little bit salty.

"All this make the gods pretty irrelevant and incompetent" Like, didn't we all already knew that? I mean, seriously this is nothing new.

28 is a really low number and i can understand why people dislike this, what i cannot understand is the outrage that i've seen because "it doesn't make any sense" when it perfectly does, i mean i dont understand how it seems that the rage is based on things not making sense when that's not true, and i have to be honest, so far i don't really feel that any of the reasons behind those complaints are conveying anything to me, so i may have to apologize if i offend anyone but your arguments seems a little bit flat in my opinion, like an overreaction. But hey that's just me.

[dbzfan7]

Majin buu rampaged across the universe and Freeza destroyed any race/planet that defied him. Ginyu Force helped Freeza do it.

The u7 saiyans were a race that genocided entire planets on a daily basis. they sent all of there babies to do it as there first task.

Several hundred......100 billion. Several hundred, 100 billion low ball estimate. And this is just for 1 galaxy....just 1. That doesn't even count all the other galaxies. The one's the South, East, and West Kaio watch.

The socalled northen galaxy is not a galaxy but a much bigger quadrant. Also Jaco said in anime and manga there is an infinite number of galaxies. po

I'm just putting the number of planets into perspective. Boo is labelled at destroying hundreds of planets. Freeza not as big probably didn't do near as much, but at least did over a hundred. Both are hundreds of millions of times less than how many planets there are in just 1 galaxy...combined.

[Lord Beerus]

Several hundred......100 billion. Several hundred, 100 billion low ball estimate. And this is just for 1 galaxy....just 1. That doesn't even count all the other galaxies. The one's the South, East, and West Kaio watch.

The socalled northen galaxy is not a galaxy but a much bigger quadrant. Also Jaco said in anime and manga there is an infinite number of galaxies. po

I'm just putting the number of planets into perspective. Boo is labelled at destroying hundreds of planets. Freeza not as big probably didn't do near as much, but at least did over a hundred. Both are hundreds of millions of times less than how many planets there are in just 1 galaxy...combined.

But according to Resurrection F, Freeza had at the very least 448 planets under his control. The true figure for how many planets Freeza's army conquered and wiped out of all life is really unknown.

I'm just gonna handwave this shit as Majin Boo, Freeza and Beerus being everywhere and Kaioshin not doing his job properly; which ironically really fits into perspective with how uneducated he acted in the manga.

[dbzfan7]

The socalled northen galaxy is not a galaxy but a much bigger quadrant. Also Jaco said in anime and manga there is an infinite number of galaxies. po

I'm just putting the number of planets into perspective. Boo is labelled at destroying hundreds of planets. Freeza not as big probably didn't do near as much, but at least did over a hundred. Both are hundreds of millions of times less than how many planets there are in just 1 galaxy...combined.

But according to Resurrection F, Freeza had at the very least 448 planets under his control. The true figure for how many planets Freeza's army conquered and wiped out of all life is really unknown.

I'm just gonna handwave this shit as Majin Boo, Freeza and Beerus being everywhere and Kaioshin not doing his job properly; which ironically really fits into perspective with how uneducated he acted in the manga.

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be over 100 in a guide somewhere in one of the daizenshuu's. But even if you want throw in 448.....compare that to over 100 billion (extreme low ball) of just one galaxy. Chozenshu said Boo only destroyed several hundred. Even combined Freeza and Boo do not even scratch 100 billion, and that's not counting all the other galaxies in mind. Though planet 448 could mean they conquered that much or something else....either way doesn't scratch the colossal number.

[Lord Beerus]

Wrong
The term galaxy is in japanese area

What are you talking about?

So I do not know how to explain this. In Japanese anime and manga there is no the term galaxy to the north, south, east and west. Ik-term galaxy is a translation error.
In Japanese Galaxy 銀河
instead

北 northエ リ ア area

Hmm. That's interesting. But why in God's name did Chōzenshū 1 have this tidbit:

A note below that shows the layout of the cosmos and the universe. The Kaiōshin oversee both the upper half, or the heavenly realm, and the bottom half, the world of the living. The diagram of the universe shows how it is divided into four quadrants called “galaxies” and how Earth is in the north one.

It just throws everything out of wack. Are there really four galaxies or not? According to the guidebooks there are four galaxies. But according the anime, manga, Jaco and Super, that's not the case.

So who fucked up?

I'm just putting the number of planets into perspective. Boo is labelled at destroying hundreds of planets. Freeza not as big probably didn't do near as much, but at least did over a hundred. Both are hundreds of millions of times less than how many planets there are in just 1 galaxy...combined.

But according to Resurrection F, Freeza had at the very least 448 planets under his control. The true figure for how many planets Freeza's army conquered and wiped out of all life is really unknown.

I'm just gonna handwave this shit as Majin Boo, Freeza and Beerus being everywhere and Kaioshin not doing his job properly; which ironically really fits into perspective with how uneducated he acted in the manga.

I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be over 100 in a guide somewhere in one of the daizenshuu's. But even if you want throw in 448.....compare that to over 100 billion (extreme low ball) of just one galaxy. Chozenshu said Boo only destroyed several hundred. Even combined Freeza and Boo do not even scratch 100 billion, and that's not counting all the other galaxies in mind.

Can we just agree that someone has majorly fucked up and call it a day? My head is starting to hurt.