DBS writer confirms Roshi isn't explicitly stronger than Tien.

[Generico Garbagio]

I agree with you, but saying that Ten wasn't treated well is an euphemism. Ten was treated as trash and in the end he still lost with old man Roshi.
I liked him as a character until it was proven that he was garbage, because, you know, he lost with old man Roshi and as you said if Tenshinhan is so much stronger than Roshi like he should be that attack shouldn't work.

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

He has literally 0 personality to him

BUT WHAT ABOUT THAT PINK PURSE??

Tien still has a personality. He seems so traumatized to enter the tournament actually... We all knew since Z that Tien is no match for strong fighters, but he will always train and do his best. Right now in Super, he's going into a tournament against god-level powerhouses and it seems to be getting to him. It was tough to get beat up by a witchcrafted Roshi, but the Gohan/Piccolo fight seemed to have cemented that doubt in him a lot. If anything, I would've loved to see episodes where HE regained his confidence like Krillin did.

[Doctor.]

I agree with you, but saying that Ten wasn't treated well is an euphemism. Ten was treated as trash and in the end he still lost with old man Roshi.
I liked him as a character until it was proven that he was garbage, because, you know, he lost with old man Roshi and as you said if Tenshinhan is so much stronger than Roshi like he should be that attack shouldn't work.

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

He has literally 0 personality to him...why would anyone like him for any reason aside from strength seems like a more legitimate question.

Of course people can like whoever they want...I just dont see why they act surprised others dont share that feeling as strongly.

I dislike Tenshinhan. It's just that Shinda Forever always seemed like a big Tenshinhan fan and now he's saying he doesn't like him... presumably because he was shown to be weak (even though everyone should already know Tenshinhan IS weak).

[YajirobiTheGreat]

If she can amplify people than maybe she should be on the team instead of Roshi. After losing Buu they also have no mage who can heal them. We could use a character who acts in a supporting role.

[Generico Garbagio]

If she can amplify people than maybe she should be on the team instead of Roshi. After losing Buu they also have no mage who can heal them. We could use a character who acts in a supporting role.

She has been proven to amplify Roshi.

100% confirmed.

[Zephyr]

Crap writer got called out on the internet. What's melodromatic is writing an essay to frame this as some bullying sob story.

A crap writer wrote crap for a crap show. That's his job. Why are you surprised? Why does this warrant some mega-epic bro "calling out"?

And I wasn't framing it as a bullying sob story. I was framing it as exactly what it is: entitled manchildren having a figurative seizure over a toy commercial (not meant for them) having the audacity to defile their precious head-canon by choreographing things "wrong" and not spoon-feeding them the "right" strength-related factoids.

[Simere]

What exactly does the Saturday morning children's cartoon toy commercial crowd think we should talk about? I fully agree with criticizing the tone many people take, but if that's where you're coming from, we shouldn't be in the first place.

[Shinda Forever]

I agree with you, but saying that Ten wasn't treated well is an euphemism. Ten was treated as trash and in the end he still lost with old man Roshi.
I liked him as a character until it was proven that he was garbage, because, you know, he lost with old man Roshi and as you said if Tenshinhan is so much stronger than Roshi like he should be that attack shouldn't work.

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

No, i simply face the facts, furthermore, i think that among earthlings he is a better character than Kuririn, that's all.

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

He has literally 0 personality to him...why would anyone like him for any reason aside from strength seems like a more legitimate question.

Of course people can like whoever they want...I just dont see why they act surprised others dont share that feeling as strongly.

I dislike Tenshinhan. It's just that Shinda Forever always seemed like a big Tenshinhan fan and now he's saying he doesn't like him... presumably because he was shown to be weak (even though everyone should already know Tenshinhan IS weak).

Yeah Tenshinhan was weak but i never thought he was weak to that extent, but, as i said Kuririn was always a weakling as well. My favorite character in super is Hitto and in Dragon ball z Piccolo.

[blackbewhite2k7]

I agree with you, but saying that Ten wasn't treated well is an euphemism. Ten was treated as trash and in the end he still lost with old man Roshi.
I liked him as a character until it was proven that he was garbage, because, you know, he lost with old man Roshi and as you said if Tenshinhan is so much stronger than Roshi like he should be that attack shouldn't work.

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

He has literally 0 personality to him...why would anyone like him for any reason aside from strength seems like a more legitimate question.

Of course people can like whoever they want...I just dont see why they act surprised others dont share that feeling as strongly.

Most people tend to forget he's one of, if not the most well developed former antagonists in Dragon ball, with an entire arc focused on Roshi working to convince him, through combat, that he was on the wrong path. His redemption arc in the Kind piccolo saga was also something we hardly get to see most former antagonists have to go through, facing people you've hurt in the past and directly earning their forgiveness (I realize some of the latter was anime only, but he made great strides to make up for being a sociapathic prick in the manga, too)

He went from a vicious sociopath, to a virtuous introvert, to a benevolent teacher in Super who's come out of his shell to teach others looking to get stronger. Very minor character with bare minimum development after Dragon ball, but it's there.

Plus he has a cool and unique fighting style and arsenal of moves that set him apart from all the turtle school guys..

[Boo Machine]

What exactly do you Saturday morning children's cartoon toy commercial crowd think we should talk about? I fully agree with criticizing the tone many people take, but if that's where you're coming from, we shouldn't be in the first place.

Well it's not necessarily about it being a children's cartoon. I think the point of calling it that is that we should remember what it is and act accordingly. As in people should not harass writers on their Twiter as if they shot a puppy is what they are trying to get across, I think. People are free to criticize or praise but should try to do so in a respectful manner as opposed to savage animals.

[Zephyr]

What exactly does the Saturday morning children's cartoon toy commercial crowd think we should talk about? I fully agree with criticizing the tone many people take, but if that's where you're coming from, we shouldn't be in the first place.

Pretty much what Boo Machine said. But in the interest of elaborating:

I mean, obviously feel free to criticize things you think need to be criticized. If there's a problem with the writing, point it out if you want. I'm just saying, it should at least be gone about in a dignified and well thought out manner. Presenting one's criticisms like a spoiled child just comes off as needlessly obnoxious and poorly thought out. Acting surprised, hell, appalled, that Super's making the same mistakes over 90 episodes in comes across just like that. The Super anime's faults have manifested in a very consistent trend for a very long time now. It should be no cause for alarm anymore. If battle power/feats/scaling/etc. is the hill you want to die on, Super's anime feels like a very odd thing to put enough stock into to actually be as upset as this.

The fact that they didn't have Goku and Tenshinhan entertain the more plausible explanation for Roshi doing so well is something I also negatively assess the overall quality of the Super anime for. That doesn't mean I'm lashing out at the people behind it, "calling them out", or acting like they've betrayed my trust or something like that. They did what they had to and what they could do. That turns out to be below my threshold of what I'd call "good". That's unfortunate, it really is, but I'm not going to act surprised. I'm not going to act like there's no way this should be happening, because the fact that it is happening means that there's likely a very important reason for it. And given what we already know about Super's behind-the-scenes goings-on, it makes plenty of sense.

Acting shocked that a Saturday morning children's cartoon toy commercial fails to hold up to higher standards seems confused at best, and disingenuous at worst. I'd rather my Saturday morning children's cartoon toy commercial also have the utmost heart and soul put in, and the most splendid of execution, but having an aneurysm the way that this Sub Forum in general seems to collectively do at almost every single turn is utterly asinine, because that all-too-usual reaction seems to require ignoring that it's a Saturday morning children's cartoon toy commercial.

That's all I'm trying to say, I apologize if I botched my explanation.

[GodKaio-Ken]

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

He has literally 0 personality to him...why would anyone like him for any reason aside from strength seems like a more legitimate question.

Of course people can like whoever they want...I just dont see why they act surprised others dont share that feeling as strongly.

Most people tend to forget he's one of, if not the most well developed former antagonists in Dragon ball, with an entire arc focused on Roshi working to convince him, through combat, that he was on the wrong path. His redemption arc in the Kind piccolo saga was also something we hardly get to see most former antagonists have to go through, facing people you've hurt in the past and directly earning their forgiveness (I realize some of the latter was anime only, but he made great strides to make up for being a sociapathic prick in the manga, too)

He went from a vicious sociopath, to a virtuous introvert, to a benevolent teacher in Super who's come out of his shell to teach others looking to get stronger. Very minor character with bare minimum development after Dragon ball, but it's there.

Plus he has a cool and unique fighting style and arsenal of moves that set him apart from all the turtle school guys..

Fwiw Tien was awesome when introduced and I have nothing against him. I basically meant since Z started.

Also one of my favorite characters is Goten. Doesnt get more useless than that. I just dont get upset when others dont like him...

[TBMx]

Crap writer got called out on the internet. What's melodromatic is writing an essay to frame this as some bullying sob story.

This is an absolutely ridiculous response. Of course people are entitled to their opinions, and to express them in an interesting way, even if that means they disagree with them and have extensive criticism.

However, no-one deserves personal attacks of that caliber over some strength stuff in a Saturday morning children's cartoon.

Good on him for not tolerating it. Likewise, we're not going to tolerate it here. If you have something worth saying/analyzing/criticizing, we would hope you have the capacity to express it well. If you don't? Well, it probably wasn't worth saying in the first place, and Kanzenshuu isn't the place for you.

Framing the conversation in terms of what he "deserves", is melodrama. As a professional writer, or a professional in any capacity, it's expected that when you perform inadequately, the customer will sometimes react in a hostile manner. Your feels are irrelevant as it's a reality of the internet and of business. May not be a reality on Kanzenshuu, but this didn't happen on Kanzenshuu, so that's non sequitr.

So again, expecting people to care when a professional who writes rubbish gets insulted online? Is that person entitled to kindness or civility from complete strangers on a format that doesn't enforce it? No one in real life is entitled to never being insulted. Blocking people does absolutely nothing but mildly inconvenience the insulter as they simply make an alt and he proves to the community that he pays attention to insults, attracting more. He needs to do better next time or simply move on, like a mature adult does when confronted with namecalling on the internet.

[buutenks]

Well tbh that would mostly be his opinion. No doubt Tien would have a very hard time with Roshi in a legit 1 on 1 match, due to Roshi's unique techniques, Tien would proly win in the end, proly. Still, you cant deny Tien was treated badly. He got owned in ep 89 and ep 90. While Roshi shined in ep 89.

[GodKaio-Ken]

So you started disliking a character because he's weak?

He has literally 0 personality to him

BUT WHAT ABOUT THAT PINK PURSE??

Tien still has a personality. He seems so traumatized to enter the tournament actually... We all knew since Z that Tien is no match for strong fighters, but he will always train and do his best. Right now in Super, he's going into a tournament against god-level powerhouses and it seems to be getting to him. It was tough to get beat up by a witchcrafted Roshi, but the Gohan/Piccolo fight seemed to have cemented that doubt in him a lot. If anything, I would've loved to see episodes where HE regained his confidence like Krillin did.

I dont have anything against Tien...like I've said I love Goten. I cant talk smack lol

However I think it would have been 100x smarter to....instead of boosting everyones powers to wacky levels, to have structured it so that other teams had 1 to 4 God Tier and a bunch of people around the level of people like Tien, Krillin, 18, 17 but instead we got wacky power boosts =[

[Dbzfan94]

I dont have anything against Tien...like I've said I love Goten. I cant talk smack lol

However I think it would have been 100x smarter to....instead of boosting everyones powers to wacky levels, to have structured it so that other teams had 1 to 4 God Tier and a bunch of people around the level of people like Tien, Krillin, 18, 17 but instead we got wacky power boosts =[

Another Goten fan! Yay

[Zephyr]

As a professional writer, or a professional in any capacity, it's expected that when you perform inadequately, the customer will sometimes react in a hostile manner. Your feels are irrelevant as it's a reality of the internet and of business.

But again, "performing inadequately" seems to simply entail: not respecting the headcanons of pedantic fans who are outside of the target audience. If the guy overreacted and made some sob story about how the fans are bullying him, or whatever, I'd maybe begin to see where you're coming from. But he's not. Toshio seems to be varying shades between chill-about and oblivious-to this asinine collective panic attack. So his feels being irrelevant is also irrelevant.

So again, expecting people to care when a professional who writes rubbish gets insulted online? Is that person entitled to kindness or civility from complete strangers on a format that doesn't enforce it? No one in real life is entitled to never being insulted. Blocking people does absolutely nothing but mildly inconvenience the insulter as they simply make an alt and he proves to the community that he pays attention to insults, attracting more. He needs to do better next time or simply move on, like a mature adult does when confronted with namecalling on the internet.

And it's not the mere matter of "a professional who writes rubbish being insulted online" that is causing so much confusion and legitimate concern from myself and, presumably, VegettoEX. It is the grounds upon which his rubbish is being insulted that is cause for double taking and commenting on. No, he's not entitled to kindness and civility from people who dislike his work. But on the flipside, and this is something you ironically seem to be fundamentally missing the entire point of, these fans are likewise not entitled to have their headcanons adhered to. So collectively acting like petulant brats when they aren't adhered to is the ultimate root cause of this seemingly ever-rising toxicity, and is really what's 'getting my goat', here, so to speak. It's been going on for a while (at least since the Revival of F thread, which at this point was two years ago), and it's growing increasingly grating to see it crop up with ever-increasing speed around these parts, where well-mannered, context-aware, and well-thought-out discussions are supposed to be the norm.

Do you get at all where I'm coming from, or did I utterly fail to adequately articulate my thoughts again?

[Blackstripe]

https://twitter.com/toshio916/status/861361570013511683

Just like most people suspected...Roshi was powered up by Yurin's witchcraft.

You were like, "Unless it made Roshi millions of times stronger..."

It was explained in the episode that Roshi became far stronger than he was in Dragon Ball through training, and that his full power was actually quite impressive by human standards, according to Goku. So if you think Roshi is only at his Dragon Ball level, it's your fault for not paying attention.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

https://twitter.com/toshio916/status/861361570013511683

Just like most people suspected...Roshi was powered up by Yurin's witchcraft.

You were like, "Unless it made Roshi millions of times stronger..."

It was explained in the episode that Roshi became far stronger than he was in Dragon Ball through training, and that his full power was actually quite impressive by human standards, according to Goku. So if you think Roshi is only at his Dragon Ball level, it's your fault for not paying attention.

I won't deny that he may have become stronger than in Dragon Ball, but still compare his ki to anyone in the Tournament of Power, the only thing that saves him is tactic and skill. Physical strength thrown right out the window. Compare any other instance in DBZ where there was a large difference in strength between two opponents, this match up amplifies this difference many fold, this applies to not just Roshi also (Krillin, Tien..)

[Saturnine]

That person is an incompetent writer, 'nuff said.

[JulianStyles]

That person is an incompetent writer, 'nuff said.

The person who wrote episode 89 is the incompetent one.

Roshi just confirmed is episode 94 he still cant fly!!! Which means his his power in 89 was not his. Case fucking closed!